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Old 06-08-2022, 08:58 AM #31
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I did a good bit of research on KDSS when i bought my '10 Trail and initially panicked because of the costs people were being quoted. After reading up on it though, it's really just a hydraulic system and really isn't more complicated than brakes.

There are procedures that outline how to bleed all the actuators and the accumulator and the worst part of it is the need for a hydraulic (either hand operated like the original Toyota service tool, or air over hydraulic like it's replacement..I'm guessing techs' arms got tired, lol). There was even a video out there on YT from someone that showed the process over on ih8mud.com, but apparently YT removed the account. That person even used ATF instead of the super expensive AHC fluid. I'd probably spend the extra $$ myself if i was doing it but that's me.

Point is, it's not voodoo, and can be serviced by humans. I think the Toyota dealers don't have the service tools because they never see it and that is why they charge so much. I've also heard Lexus dealers won't work on Toyotas typically too, but apparently they did in this case which is good news.
Fortunately, my 4r is relatively rust free and gets coated yearly, including removing the KDSS accumulator skid plate, cleaning it, then spraying down the accumulator with fluidfilm or similar. This is CRITICAL to keeping the system working for a long time, imo. The accumulators seem to be the most common failure point and it always seems to be due to corrosion. The actuators can also leak sometimes, but there's not a ton of preventative maintenance you can do to fix that.

I hope my KDSS lasts the life of my 4r, but if it doesn't and i'm faced with a 4k bill you can bet i'm going to try to fix it myself. I will also make a super detailed thread about how i did it so others can also save money in the future.
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Old 06-08-2022, 04:06 PM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAVL 2016 View Post
There is always more to these stories.

What they are telling you with that price is they don’t want to do the work/. The truck is too rusty and they don’t want the headache associated with taking it apart and having problems for which they will be responsible. So instead of telling you that they give you a high price to send you somewhere else.

Unfortunately frame rust is an issue on all these trucks as they age/. Have some friends who live in Pittsburgh and the cars and trucks there last about 10 years max even with good care. Just too much continuous salt.
Problem is that customers don't like hearing their vehicle isn't worth fixing or that a technician/shop can't give them a definitive repair quote on their barely held together vehicle. We've gotten into this argument with customers too often, so we just waste our time documenting everything, pricing it out, and giving it to the customer. Hard to argue with numbers and pictures most of the time.

There is plenty of times if love to just P&A "[x1] Road Flare [x5] Gal, Gasoline" for the customer than waste 2hrs documenting everything wrong with their vehicle and then wasting my part's department's time quoti g out a 15k repair bill on a 20yr old 300k vehicle that just needs to be put out of it's misery and saved from it's neglectful owner.

Last edited by BlackWorksInc; 06-08-2022 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 06-09-2022, 10:53 AM #33
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Problem is that customers don't like hearing their vehicle isn't worth fixing or that a technician/shop can't give them a definitive repair quote on their barely held together vehicle. We've gotten into this argument with customers too often, so we just waste our time documenting everything, pricing it out, and giving it to the customer. Hard to argue with numbers and pictures most of the time.

There is plenty of times if love to just P&A "[x1] Road Flare [x5] Gal, Gasoline" for the customer than waste 2hrs documenting everything wrong with their vehicle and then wasting my part's department's time quoti g out a 15k repair bill on a 20yr old 300k vehicle that just needs to be put out of it's misery and saved from it's neglectful owner.
You make a good point and what you said makes sense (and gave a good chuckle). Thank you for that perspective. My original inclination here, fwiw, is to be sympathetic to the shop. They don't want to argue with the customer but they don't want to do the work either because it is too much of a headache.
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Old 06-09-2022, 11:18 AM #34
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Do you own a 4Runner with KDSS or is this just a knee jerk reaction to a post about someone having a KDSS issue on one out of how many 4Runners currently on the road that are equipped with KDSS?

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KDSS is definitely off the list of options on the next 4Runner.
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Old 06-09-2022, 12:27 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc View Post
Problem is that customers don't like hearing their vehicle isn't worth fixing or that a technician/shop can't give them a definitive repair quote on their barely held together vehicle. We've gotten into this argument with customers too often, so we just waste our time documenting everything, pricing it out, and giving it to the customer. Hard to argue with numbers and pictures most of the time.

There is plenty of times if love to just P&A "[x1] Road Flare [x5] Gal, Gasoline" for the customer than waste 2hrs documenting everything wrong with their vehicle and then wasting my part's department's time quoti g out a 15k repair bill on a 20yr old 300k vehicle that just needs to be put out of it's misery and saved from it's neglectful owner.
It has to become a safety concern eventually. My guess is that some shops just will not go down the road to hell that one of these repairs can become.
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Old 06-09-2022, 02:12 PM #36
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Best thing I ever did was take a huge set of bolt cutters and chopped the whole xreas hydraulic system, shocks, lines and cylinders to bits..

Watch out for the oil spray otherwise far easier than ****ing around with flare nut wrenches on old rusty shit.
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Old 06-09-2022, 02:12 PM #37
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Love my KDSS.
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Old 06-09-2022, 02:31 PM #38
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KISS!!!!

Keep it simple!

One reason I like my nice and simple SR5 Premium!
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Old 06-09-2022, 04:31 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandonium View Post
Do you own a 4Runner with KDSS or is this just a knee jerk reaction to a post about someone having a KDSS issue on one out of how many 4Runners currently on the road that are equipped with KDSS?
No, simply evaluating next 4Runner purchase. Keep it simple prevails once again.

How about you? I assume you are pregnant with a 4Runner that has KDSS.

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Old 06-10-2022, 10:12 AM #40
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Nope, not at all. Have had KDSS since 2016 so I know what I am working with. Own the product so can speak to it. Many people in this forum who have never owned said product make generalized statements as though a few issues within these walls paint said product in a certain way.

Some 4runners also have needle bearing issues. Perhaps a 2WD (simpler than 4wD) would spare you from this potential nightmare also?


Quote:
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No, simply evaluating next 4Runner purchase. Keep it simple prevails once again.

How about you? I assume you are pregnant with a 4Runner that has KDSS.
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Old 06-10-2022, 10:29 AM #41
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Just wanted to share my 2 cents. I had KDSS on my 2012 Trail. I really liked it, but living in Ohio where it snows 2 inches and ODOT puts down 4 inches of salt and brine I know a few things about rust and rust prevention. Each fall and spring I pulled the KDSS cover under the drivers door and cleaned and then sprayed down with Amsoil Heavy Metal protectant. No issues. I am now in my 60's and retired and things I used to be able to do easiliy are now getting more difficult. Arthritis, and shoulder replacement have me pick and choose what I do. With that said I do not have nor did I want KDSS on my 2021 ORP. In my opinion having driven both the 2012 and the 2021 back to back and on separate days I did not feel the driving difference was worth the money and potential repair cost down the road. After speaking with several suspension specialists, I determined if I really wanted a KDSS feel w/o KDSS I could upgrade some components and get very close to the KDSS feel. Just my thought process and opinion. After driving the 2021 for a year I don't feel the need to upgrade. I don't know if Toyota upgraded the shocks or suspension on 2021's versus 2012's w/o KDSS but it does feel much more stable. Even my wife thinks so. Just an old mans opinion. Your mileage may vary
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Old 06-10-2022, 11:08 AM #42
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Quote:
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Nope, not at all. Have had KDSS since 2016 so I know what I am working with. Own the product so can speak to it. Many people in this forum who have never owned said product make generalized statements as though a few issues within these walls paint said product in a certain way.

Some 4runners also have needle bearing issues. Perhaps a 2WD (simpler than 4wD) would spare you from this potential nightmare also?
EXACTLY! 4WD is just another complicated system that can break, Better stay with 2WD LOL!
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Old 06-10-2022, 11:52 AM #43
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EXACTLY! 4WD is just another complicated system that can break, Better stay with 2WD LOL!
4wd provides a lot more value than KDSS so it's worth extra cost and parts. Unless a vehicle is a pavement racing rig then a 2wd KDSS is probably better, but why get a 4R in the first place.
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Old 06-10-2022, 01:44 PM #44
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I'm convinced. I'm selling the TRD ORP W/KDSS, and the complicated and potentially trouble-prone truck, cars, motorcycles, RV, even the bicycles since they can break too.

It's going to be walking from now on.
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Old 06-10-2022, 03:03 PM #45
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I'm convinced. I'm selling the TRD ORP W/KDSS, and the complicated and potentially trouble-prone truck, cars, motorcycles, RV, even the bicycles since they can break too.

It's going to be walking from now on.
Be sure to go barefoot. Shoes are nasty, complicated, failure-prone gimmicks. Laces can break suddenly without warning, and soles can wear out or fail entirely, necessitating an expensive repair or replacement.
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