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Old 06-11-2022, 09:52 PM #61
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Originally Posted by Something_Awesome View Post
Yes, and the SR5's feel like those early 2000's Camrys. I vomitted twice in my Cousin's early 2000's Camry. This is one of the reasons I had always preferred Honda/Acura cars. It is preference though. I do prefer the firmer ride that Honda's tend to have.

I think it is important for a prospective 4Runner owner to test drive both before deciding. I actually ordered the KDSS option and bought the vehicle outright before ever driving it. I had done a lot of research and felt like I didn't need the test drive. Drove off in my new 4Runner with KDSS feeling validated instantly.

I do expect my KDSS to last the life of the vehicle.
I'm fairly sure that the Off-Road vehicles all get upgraded shocks (like baby 5100's or something to that effect, Toyota seems to like using those OEM Bilstein shocks for their Off-Road trim Trucks and SUVs) which is likely the main improvement in ride quality rather than the KDSS, but it could be a contributing factor on-road too.
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Old 06-12-2022, 04:17 AM #62
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Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam View Post
Unlivable is a pretty strong, especially since we have 296K miles on a 2014 SR5 and still donít know why weíd need KDSS.

Clicked on your video link and stopped at pink baseball hat worn backwards. All credibility lost right there.
No, because the information provided in the video is objective, and therefore stands even if it were to have been provided by a Northern Australian box jelly fish. When I say an SR5's suspension is unlivable, that is my opinion. When I provide a recording that makes it seem like the SR5 is sitting on wavy waters after braking, that is objective. And that bounce/nosedive is an issue that stands whether you want to contend with it or not.
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Old 06-12-2022, 04:17 AM #63
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Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc View Post
I'm fairly sure that the Off-Road vehicles all get upgraded shocks (like baby 5100's or something to that effect, Toyota seems to like using those OEM Bilstein shocks for their Off-Road trim Trucks and SUVs) which is likely the main improvement in ride quality rather than the KDSS, but it could be a contributing factor on-road too.
It's the KDSS. Does wonders for the nosedive, too.
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Old 06-12-2022, 04:39 AM #64
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If nothing else, the through line with KDSS repairs seems to be corrosion. I wonder if that is part of the reason KDSS is not even available in some regions whereas California/Colorado it is quite common.

Would love to see the repair bill/quote as it really seems the point of it was the dealer not wanting to touch it.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:33 AM #65
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Originally Posted by Something_Awesome View Post
Yes, and the SR5's feel like those early 2000's Camrys. I vomitted twice in my Cousin's early 2000's Camry. This is one of the reasons I had always preferred Honda/Acura cars. It is preference though. I do prefer the firmer ride that Honda's tend to have.

I think it is important for a prospective 4Runner owner to test drive both before deciding. I actually ordered the KDSS option and bought the vehicle outright before ever driving it. I had done a lot of research and felt like I didn't need the test drive. Drove off in my new 4Runner with KDSS feeling validated instantly.

I do expect my KDSS to last the life of the vehicle.
Let me guess, you probably get seasick too. I own two saltwater boats and never get seasick, nor have I ever been motion sick in an automobile. I also don't slam the breaks on every stop like the pink-hatted clown in the video.

The best riding car we've ever owned was a 1974 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. It turned any road into a flat calm lake ride.

Self-verification motive:
the desire to seek information about oneself that confirms one’s chronic self-views, regardless of whether this information is good or bad. This desire is often stronger than the self-enhancement motive, wherein people seek favorable information about themselves, or the self-assessment motive, wherein people seek accurate information about themselves. People seek self-verification (a) by gravitating toward situations and relationship partners in which they will receive self-confirmation, (b) by striving to elicit self-verifying feedback through their behavior, and (c) by selectively attending to, recalling, and interpreting evaluations in ways that tend to maintain their own views of themselves. [first proposed in 1983 by U.S. social psychologist William B. Swann (1952–  )]

Layman's translation: I bought and paid for it, therefore it is the best.

Last edited by CutthroatSlam; 06-12-2022 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:46 AM #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam View Post
Let me guess, you probably get seasick too. The best riding car we've ever owned was a 1974 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. It turned any road into a flat calm lake ride.

Self-verification motive:
the desire to seek information about oneself that confirms oneís chronic self-views, regardless of whether this information is good or bad. This desire is often stronger than the self-enhancement motive, wherein people seek favorable information about themselves, or the self-assessment motive, wherein people seek accurate information about themselves. People seek self-verification (a) by gravitating toward situations and relationship partners in which they will receive self-confirmation, (b) by striving to elicit self-verifying feedback through their behavior, and (c) by selectively attending to, recalling, and interpreting evaluations in ways that tend to maintain their own views of themselves. [first proposed in 1983 by U.S. social psychologist William B. Swann (1952Ė  )]

Layman's translation: I bought and paid for it, therefore it is the best.

The golden days of the automobile, before manufacturers thought drivers cared about useless things like body roll and made such adjustments to ruin the ride of cars that would otherwise be a dream to drive.

RIP couches on wheels with V8ís


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Old 06-12-2022, 10:54 AM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Something_Awesome View Post
It's the KDSS. Does wonders for the nosedive, too.
Nose dive/lift is less with KDSS?? I'm no suspension expert, but seems like a fatter sway bar would only improve cross-vehicle weight shift, not front to back. I drove our nephew's SR5 a year or so ago to see if we wanted a 5th Gen 4Runner. The body lean in turns and nosedive was enough of a turnoff that I decided if we were going to a get 5th Gen 4runner, it had to have KDSS. So when it came time to buy a new vehicle in March of this year, I never compared a non-KDSS 4Runner to the KDSS ORP we bought, but can't believe the nose dive/lift could be much worse on a non-KDSS vehicle!
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Old 06-12-2022, 03:24 PM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam View Post
Let me guess, you probably get seasick too. I own two saltwater boats and never get seasick, nor have I ever been motion sick in an automobile. I also don't slam the breaks on every stop like the pink-hatted clown in the video.

The best riding car we've ever owned was a 1974 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. It turned any road into a flat calm lake ride.

Self-verification motive:
the desire to seek information about oneself that confirms oneís chronic self-views, regardless of whether this information is good or bad. This desire is often stronger than the self-enhancement motive, wherein people seek favorable information about themselves, or the self-assessment motive, wherein people seek accurate information about themselves. People seek self-verification (a) by gravitating toward situations and relationship partners in which they will receive self-confirmation, (b) by striving to elicit self-verifying feedback through their behavior, and (c) by selectively attending to, recalling, and interpreting evaluations in ways that tend to maintain their own views of themselves. [first proposed in 1983 by U.S. social psychologist William B. Swann (1952Ė  )]

Layman's translation: I bought and paid for it, therefore it is the best.
He slams on the brakes to show the bounce. Nosedive is bad. Body roll is bad. Sounds like you adapt your driving to mitigate those faults. It is quite likely that the 6th gen wonít have those issues, thereby reducing the need for KDSS.

KDSS is not supposed to be the best. It is a mitigator/bandaid for perhaps the 4Runnerís biggest issue (on-road nosedive and lean).
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Old 06-12-2022, 03:33 PM #69
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Nose dive/lift is less with KDSS?? I'm no suspension expert, but seems like a fatter sway bar would only improve cross-vehicle weight shift, not front to back. I drove our nephew's SR5 a year or so ago to see if we wanted a 5th Gen 4Runner. The body lean in turns and nosedive was enough of a turnoff that I decided if we were going to a get 5th Gen 4runner, it had to have KDSS. So when it came time to buy a new vehicle in March of this year, I never compared a non-KDSS 4Runner to the KDSS ORP we bought, but can't believe the nose dive/lift could be much worse on a non-KDSS vehicle!
According to a couple suspension gurus and The Car Care Nut, it does reduce nose dive. My personal experience suggest this as well. I think it has to do with how the hydraulic fluid transfers.

Perhaps this has nothing to do with it, but the KDSS actually has LESS wheel articulation when both wheels on an axle hit a bump at the same time. It has more articulation than the stock and TRD Pro suspension when the articulation is needed on either the driver or passenger side of the vehicle.

Lastly, I imagine nosedive is not desired is any racing situation. Toyota uses KDSS on all its Baja 4Runners.

But yeah, on this forum people have been adamant about KDSS not reducing nosedive. However, all the videos I have seen suggest otherwise. Nosedive was my #1 concern (not body lean). Since vehicle break-in I have tested my KDSS a lot in hard braking situations. My 4Runner’s nosedive appears to be drastically reduced.

Edit: we are all aware that KDSS is not just a sway bar? I am guessing when you slam the brakes, fluid is not transferring to the rear. It stays up front, keep the nose from diving. I have genuinely have no idea. Just a shot-in-the-dark guess. This same phenomenon may be occurring when going over obstacles with both front wheels at the same time (hence the reduced articulation) as opposed to approaching the obstacle with either the left or right wheel first.

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Old 06-12-2022, 06:05 PM #70
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RobS10 has it right. KDSS has no magical ability to reduce nose dive. In essence, it really is “just a sway bar,” but one that is hydraulically actuated. Like any sway bar, the KDSS sway bar works as a torsion spring to resist differential motion between each side of an axle’s suspension. It doesn’t do anything to resist equal motion of both sides, such as during hard braking — mechanically, it can’t. It doesn’t matter how much hydraulic pressure is applied to the piston, or whether the amount is different front to rear. When both sides move equally, all the sway bar can do is passively rotate around its long axis.

KDSS does not have less articulation than other T4R suspensions. If it has less overall travel, it’s only because of limitations imposed by the KDSS design, not because of any action the hydraulic system is taking.
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Old 06-12-2022, 07:21 PM #71
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He slams on the brakes to show the bounce. Nosedive is bad. Body roll is bad. Sounds like you adapt your driving to mitigate those faults. It is quite likely that the 6th gen won’t have those issues, thereby reducing the need for KDSS.

KDSS is not supposed to be the best. It is a mitigator/bandaid for perhaps the 4Runner’s biggest issue (on-road nosedive and lean).
There isn’t a car or truck out there that won’t nose dive when you stop like that.

“Since vehicle break-in I have tested my KDSS a lot in hard braking situations. My 4Runner’s nosedive appears to be drastically reduced.”

Compared to what? Do you have a 4Runner without KDSS, or are you basing it on some idiot who made a video of him slamming the brakes on a 4Runner with worn out stock shocks?

You should be driving a Crown Victoria and gulping Dramamine. Just stop with your BS.

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Old 06-12-2022, 07:25 PM #72
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There isnít a car or truck out there that wonít nose dive when you stop like that. You should be driving a Crown Victoria and gulping Dramamine.
Our stock '99 4Runner has some nose dive, but it's nowhere as noticeable as our new ORP.
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Old 06-12-2022, 08:51 PM #73
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Our stock '99 4Runner has some nose dive, but it's nowhere as noticeable as our new ORP.
Must be subjective. My 97 SR5 feels way more squishy than my 21, before and after king 2.5s.
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Old 06-12-2022, 11:48 PM #74
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There isnít a car or truck out there that wonít nose dive when you stop like that.

ďSince vehicle break-in I have tested my KDSS a lot in hard braking situations. My 4Runnerís nosedive appears to be drastically reduced.Ē

Compared to what? Do you have a 4Runner without KDSS, or are you basing it on some idiot who made a video of him slamming the brakes on a 4Runner with worn out stock shocks?

You should be driving a Crown Victoria and gulping Dramamine. Just stop with your BS.
Almost all vehicles have nose dive. Agreed. And it's not BS that a KDSS-equipped 4Runner has less nosedive than the vanilla suspension.

And no, I am not basing my results on the video. When you drove a KDSS-equipped 4Runner you noticed no difference?
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Old 06-12-2022, 11:50 PM #75
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Must be subjective. My 97 SR5 feels way more squishy than my 21, before and after king 2.5s.
Nosedive is measurable. So it's probably not subjective.
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