At the Dodge dealership, a long time ago, my now ex-wife took my pickup in for a quick lube service and general vehicle inspection as a surprise to me when I returned from deployment. When she picked it up she noted it didn't sound the same. It made a very specific whistle through the intake due to a PowerAid throttle body spacer I had installed. She went back to the service department and asked about it because, when installed, it was visible while standing beside the truck with the hood open. The service manager took her back to the stall it was in for the work and on the tech's tool box was not only my TB spacer (which was bright red) and bolts (it took longer bolts to install) but also my K&N air filter that had been in my airbox that was marked with the STOP sticker they give you to show there's a K&N filter inside the airbox. The tech and the dealership were very lucky that I wasn't the one picking up the truck as I would have gotten outside entities involved. This is not just a story she told me because I had to put the parts back on when I got home.

So you tell me if you think that was an accident and simple oversight or blatant theft...


I order parts by manufacturer's part # at the dealership parts counter. I order parts at the auto parts store by the item # listed on their website. I do all my research and know exactly what part I need before I get to the counter. I do this because I've been burned too many time by the person behind the computer not knowing what they were doing. When the price was given over the phone, it was looked up by the part # I gave them which was the correct part when received. They tried to charge me $29 and change for a bolt that MSRP's at $7.70. MSRP, not the "sale" price that online sellers have on their sites. When I asked why my invoice was almost $80 for a roof rack hardware kit (~$20) and 2 bolts I got the comment about keeping the lights on. I pressed again about it the invoice became $36 with no other hassle, not even a manager approval or anything. So your proposed scenario is about what happened.

By the way, MSRP stand for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Put more plainly, it's the price the manufacturer has set so that the retailer turns a profit when they sell the part to the end user or retail customer. There is no further markup needed.

I am what is commonly referred to as a Gear Head or Car Guy. Turns out I've been working on vehicles for a very long time, like 30 years. Trucks, cars, motorcycles, power equipment and more. I've had a LOT of vehicles and maintain them myself. I also do a large amount of maintenance on vehicles owned by friends and family. Sometimes the dealership is a necessary evil to acquire OEM parts in a short time and on rare occasion the service department is needed for a service if I can't make time for it.

Everything I put on my first post is 100% truth and were actual experiences I had with my vehicles at dealerships.

You misspelled 'insufferable'

but I'm sorry to hear about your throttle body spacer and intake from that one dealership a long time ago and those two bolts you almost got overcharged for. I hope things get better for you in the future.

Shit I got FOUR new Bilsteins from a diesel shop (which is known locally known to be pricey) for $600 installed


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CHECK your AC for $450? You’re halfway to a new compressor!


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I lied, the coupon was $25 off of $445

From the ad:

Keep Dad Cool This Summer!

Set Tire Pressure-27 Point Inspection-A/C Cleaning and sterilizing to remove odors-Perform Toyota HVAC foam cleaning procedure- A/C Performance Inspection includes 1 LB of refrigerant-Check Temperature-Check Pressure-Clean Condenser. Regularly $445.

Interesting... so I'm going to say they're probably charging something like 2~3hrs of labor? A/C refresh I think we charge something like an hour or 1.5hrs (it is a little time intensive because you have to wait at least 10min or so after each foam injection, then run the air with a counter chemical to make the vehicle safe to occupy again), and a full HVAC Recovery & Recharge w/ leak check is 1.5hrs. I wonder if they're throwing in a cabin air filter also? It's a bit of a better value than I originally assumed; it sounds decent on paper, would have to see the actual end result though.

I'm sure the 1lbs is only R-134A though, I doubt they're marking down R-1234yf; shit is not only expensive, but the machine forces you to basically take at least about 20 min to just evac, with a recharge it is like 40min minimum (if you're lucky) to finish a cycle... super annoying.

Are dealers using a declined AC refresh as grounds to not honor compressor failures under vehicle warranty?

I’m sure OEM is fine but retail Denso is NOT good. Had 2 compressor failures in 4 years (non Toyota vehicle).

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It would be the first I have ever heard of it. The A/C Refresh is just for trying to clean out the HVAC box & Evaporator Core fins. I don't see how that could catastrophically kill a compressor, not to mention Toyota has never asked about the refresh service.

I must be thinking of residential HVAC but I imagined a scenario where compressor failure would be attributed to increased system pressures from dirty coils.


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So you're just here to stir shite...good to know.

BTW...what was the title of the thread again?

I mean I kind of slightly disagree with the title of the thread, should probably be "a dealership" or "How have dealerships in the past tried to screw you?" The way it's written just basically implies that "The Dealership" is some unified entity and typifies the relatively broad stereotype that doesn't really benefit anyone and is often born of an inductive reasoning fallacy and a lack of understanding of how the industry (the dealership side in this specific case) actually work.

I most agree with this person's statement:

Most dealership personnel would fall under the good and indifferent category than anything else in my experience. You have plenty of people who try to do what they can to help/benefit the customer, but they're all still bound by corporate policies from both the manufacturer and the owning entity that runs the dealership (which are often heavily pressured to trump what the manufacturer may say). I have considered making a post somewhere maybe trying to educate and provide information, but I imagine no one really cares (and that's fine).

Not saying that there aren't bad dealerships out there, but as I pointed out earlier in the thread; we're not really seeing the whole story or picture here, just the OP's narrow view and faulty correlations. This dealership could certainly be trying to nickel & dime him for repairs, I'm not denying that. But I also don't see any pictures of the leaks/repairs needed (granted, not ever dealership does that), nor do I see an effective breakdown or notes for each of the recommendations (again, I do recognize not all dealers do that either). I'm not familiar with every repair order/multi-point system out there, so I can't say one way or the other regarding his phone's screenshot (we have an email thing we do; maybe this dealer has some fancy app you can download?); but I can say that they should have been provided a copy of the repair order, the breakdown of the costs associated with the recommended work, and a copy of their multi-point inspection. As it stands we're supposed to take the OP's word and a screenshot that doesn't really give us a whole lot of context or evidence to back up with they are saying. I'm just trying to take the wider angle on this than simply dismiss either side's points; I've worked in this industry enough to know that it's got it's scummy bits.

That's deep, however, my shared experience was neither in 1 trip nor was it at just one dealership. It's been a constant at the local dealers in my area over an extended length of time and across all departments so one could say the big bad Dealership, which has earned the stigma applied to it, is pretty universal.

Yes, it is very true that people tend to share their negative experiences more readily than they will share their positive ones which is somewhat of a shame. To date, I have had no such positive experiences that would warrant any sort of feedback as the "not bad" trips were just that, not bad. Nothing of note stood out, the employees did their job and everyone went home at the end of the day.

I have extrapolated that you are or at least were a Toyota tech and I have no doubt it gets tiresome listening to and reading people's constant complaints and bashing. You seem to be one of the few that knows what you are doing and actually cares enough to do it properly. I applaud you for that and only hope that you are able to pass on your knowledge and skills to those who come after you.

@Pavement Tested

It's more that I have been hearing the same tired old spiel of "mechanics/dealers/shops/anyone who isn't me or my buddy are crooks" for decades and a lot of the reasoning and hypocrisy (because ultimately if every mechanic is just screwing you over, then how is your vehicle getting fixed?) is just silly most of the time. It's very funny to me to hear 20-some year olds regurgitate the same tired old lines and outdated thinking that my 70yr old customers do; in both cases, they're usually extremely off the mark; but it all gets recycled anyways.

I see plenty of customers who will balk at our recommendation for work, go get it done at some place like Les Schwab or their "licensed mechanic buddy" and then end up having it towed to the dealer because said shop/person did such a horrifyingly shoddy repair and/or they clearly cut so many corners you're left with a circle. But who ends up getting blamed for that? The dealer of course... because we're the ones who let said customer go somewhere else and get their work done? I've had customers blame us for stuff other shops did; i.e. "well my U-Joints were fine before I brought it here, I just had an oil change done at Valvoline and they said everything was fine! You're just trying to scam me!" meanwhile the U-Joint is so ****ed the driveshaft has to be replaced because it literally ate into where the end caps press in.

Like I pointed out to the OP and a fellow poster later in the thread; the correlations they were making were thin or misguided based on what was given to us. Others balked at the price of replacing all the shocks, in my opinion I think the dealer underquoted him and did not include all the parts he may need because he has an XREAS system on a possibly high mileage vehicle (which I went over why that quote would be so expensive), but none of us can be sure because we don't have the breakdown for the quotes. Usually replacing an XREAS system is something like 5~6hrs (3hrs for the fronts, 1hr for the rears, and an hour for the lines and center dampener; maybe some additional time if the vehicle is rusty) to replace all the lines, center dampener, front, and rear shocks; I will also throw in a recommendation for an alignment afterwards because it can be changed a bit even if you mark the LCA bolts and such; they're rarely exactly the same as they were and even a couple tenths of a degree of difference in Camber/Caster will impact toe far more noticeably. I think the last 5th gen XREAS replacement I quoted out was on a '15 Limited with 110k and all 4 shocks were just blown; came out to something like $5k? The majority of the cost was just parts, those components are just astronomically expensive, so the customer asked what it would cost to do like 5100's or just a stock set of shocks; we gave them the quote and I don't remember what they ended up going with.

I guess my point is that a lot of people are quick to cast stones or assume guilt without actually taking a second to step back and see the forest for the trees. I try to approach things from the perspective that there's always 3 sides to a story; two subjective interpretations, and one objective reality. I just like to make sure that things are fair, if the dealer ****ed up, they ****ed up; but sometimes it's the customer not being informed or communicated with properly.

I had a lady stop by our dealership some Saturdays ago because she was deathly worried about her leaking 4th gen V6 4Runner with about 200k on it. Apparently she had been quoted a giant bill for resealing the timing cover & other maintenance work and she didn't trust this specific dealership over the mountain because every time she's gone to them based they were very dismissive, flippant, and overall more interested in getting her to approve the work than explain why she needed it (based on listening to her account of things). She was out of town and worried that her 4Runner might suffer damage due to the leaking oil and had to drive back over the mountain soon; I happened to be on my day off doing some work on my own vehicles and walking by overhearing the conversation with a writer and fellow tech. I poked my head under her car to check for a rear main seal and took a quick look at her timing cover (very much a timing leak, all of Bank 1 was just caked in grime from a typical leak between the block, head, and cover) and looked at a couple other usual culprits. Talked to her for a bit to get a rough idea of service history (aside from the timing cover leak and an axle starting to leak she keeps up on the services) and explained to her what the timing cover reseal work entails, why it's expensive (labor intensive job vs. parts intensive), and then took her vehicle in the back to top it off and give it a quick look over to verify that she'll make it over the mountains. Gave her an extra quart of 5w-30, some paper rags in a bag, and let her know to properly check the oil level, as well as to keep tabs on it; start with every time she fills up for gas and if it looks like it's not going down that fast, maybe go every other fill-up and just top it off when it gets near the minimum line.

Now the point of this story isn't to stroke my own ego or to say that my dealership is better than anyone else or even that I am a good mechanic (I personally think I'm average at best); rather, my point with this little tale is to highlight the difference being informed makes. My coworker and I told her basically the same thing that the prior dealership did, she's got a leaking timing cover that's been leaking for a while and that we would recommend resealing it and that it would be thousands of dollars. The difference is that I spent 10min of my time (I let my coworker off the hook because he was in the middle of something when he got called over) talking to the customer and explaining to her what was involved in a timing cover reseal and what other costs could be involved due to the age/mileage of the vehicle. We also went over some maintenance that she can do as well as what work she should consider prioritizing for the best bang for her buck if she wanted to keep the vehicle. That 10min took her from being an uninformed, worried, and suspicious customer to her deciding that the next time she was up in our area she would schedule an appointment to have us look over her vehicle and determine what work it needed and have us repair her car, because she felt that she had more confidence in our customer service and repair work than the other dealership. Keep in mind all I did was top off her oil and answer her questions, she's still getting quoted a lot of money for the same job the other dealership recommended; but because she's now more informed she understands what that money is going to and why we're recommending such an expensive repair.

Anyways, sorry I got off on a tangent. To be clear, I don't really get offended by people ragging on dealerships or mechanics in general; it's a forum dedicated to a bunch of SUV owners not technicians, I knew what I got into when I joined., I just try to do what I can on the forums to scratch my itch for interesting issues and to help inform and educate you guys so you can keep your 4Runners running awesome; like I told the lady "my job is to do my best to keep my patients alive... that being your car. "

As for dealerships stealing stuff? That's disgusting... we've had a couple porters and/or lube guys over the years get caught stealing dollars or items from customers vehicles. Let's just say they were asked to tender their resignation immediately and on one or two occasions my service director was even kind enough to give them a head start while he called the local law enforcement's office. I do not understand the mentality of someone who steals stuff out of a customer's car; like do you genuinely think that a customer is not going to notice their personal belongings missing after you worked on it? Seriously...

Get over yourself, we already are.

Man, with how much money I paid the Jeep dealership over the years I had my Jeep, I wish they would have screwed me!