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Old 02-01-2023, 03:09 AM #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner View Post
To the people that say wet traction is bad how do you know any other tire would not have slid in the same circumstance?
When you drive the same roads for years, with various A/T tires being the variable, you notice trends.

But if people don't want to believe anecdotal evidence from people just sharing their experience, that's their prerogative. There's always the tests performed by tire reviewers and sellers, that run tests under controlled conditions, and arrive at the same conclusions.

BFG A/T's are often found lacking in wet tire traction, compared to other A/T tires. They're not the worst for wet traction, but they're also not the best.

Every tire is a compromise. People just have to decide what their priorities are. If I were driving mostly dry desert trails, I'd have a set of BFG A/T KO2's right now. In fact I've had a set in the recent past, and every version of the BFG A/T going back to the 80's.

Here's one comparison test under controlled conditions, with no bias in the results: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=249
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Old 02-01-2023, 02:39 PM #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexington View Post
Iím not sure if thatís really a factor. Most drivers in California are aware of this when the first rains come in October or November. The local news are always all over this.

It would be interesting thought if we could get people to state when and where there slip and sliding occurs. If most incidents have this happen to Californa during October/November it would prove your assumption, just need data. However, Iím starting to believe it has more to do with the type of asphalt people are driving on. I think some types are more prone to slipping when wet.
☺ You said something towards the end of your reply that you or me don't have. Data and statistics. So, is what I said a factor? Maybe, maybe not. I just know how people work. "Most drivers in Cali are aware of this..." That's fair: but do they do anything about it when it happens?

Types of asphalt make a difference for sure.

There's one thing that I don't think is affected by the type of asphalt. driving habit and adjusting that habit.

If it's poor road conditions, slow down, give more space, and stay calm. We're all in this together. And this goes for anywhere, not just Cali or Wa.
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Old 02-01-2023, 03:36 PM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinout View Post
☺ You said something towards the end of your reply that you or me don't have. Data and statistics. So, is what I said a factor? Maybe, maybe not. I just know how people work. "Most drivers in Cali are aware of this..." That's fair: but do they do anything about it when it happens?

Types of asphalt make a difference for sure.

There's one thing that I don't think is affected by the type of asphalt. driving habit and adjusting that habit.

If it's poor road conditions, slow down, give more space, and stay calm. We're all in this together. And this goes for anywhere, not just Cali or Wa.
I think anyone here who is providing personal experience, especially when they give info such as road condition, weather and tire wear is providing data. We just need more of it to narrow down what’s causing it.

Sorry I didn’t mean to say it wasn’t a factor at all. I just don’t feel it’s a primary factor that is causing KO2s slip when wet from my personal exp. I have lived in California most of my life. I’ll be 60 soon. As far as first rain of the season goes, there is always a slight increase of accidents because of all the oil build up over the summer and the first rains brings them up to the surface until a few rain storms wash it away. But do these conditions make the KO2 more prone to slipping compared to other AT tires. Unknown.

I’ve only experienced slipping with two cars in my life time, my RX7 and 4Runner. My RX7 slipped several times. I finally changed my tires and the problem went away. The other was two years ago in March in my 4Runner. There had been very heavy rain earlier that day and temp was in the high 50’s. My rear tires slid 3 times that day. I had Nitto Terra Grapplers on that came with the vehicle when I bought it. I believe they were half worn when I got rid of them shortly afterwards. All of my slipping experience happened in the winter or early spring during or just after heavy rain. Also, I’ve been running KO/KO2 for over 20 years on my SUVs and never had an issue with them for any reason. This is why in my opinion I feel the first rains isn’t a big factor here. That said, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. I’m sure it has. But for everyone who’s complained about the tires slipping when wet, how many experienced this after the first rains? We really don’t have enough data to say either way.

Anyway, I definitely agree with you that even though people are aware of the first rains hazards or other hazards for that matter, there are still plenty of idiots that ignore them. It’s just like me watching YouTube video of people driving in the snow. A high portion of the crashes occur just from people driving to fast. And that, as you say, are from people who have bad driving habits.

Last edited by Lexington; 02-02-2023 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 02-01-2023, 06:37 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02SE View Post
When you drive the same roads for years, with various A/T tires being the variable, you notice trends.

But if people don't want to believe anecdotal evidence from people just sharing their experience, that's their prerogative. There's always the tests performed by tire reviewers and sellers, that run tests under controlled conditions, and arrive at the same conclusions.

BFG A/T's are often found lacking in wet tire traction, compared to other A/T tires. They're not the worst for wet traction, but they're also not the best.

Every tire is a compromise. People just have to decide what their priorities are. If I were driving mostly dry desert trails, I'd have a set of BFG A/T KO2's right now. In fact I've had a set in the recent past, and every version of the BFG A/T going back to the 80's.


Here's one comparison test under controlled conditions, with no bias in the results: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=249
Once I found the comparison chart here the KO2 tires were not that bad for wet traction.
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Old 02-02-2023, 12:26 PM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner View Post
Once I found the comparison chart here the KO2 tires were not that bad for wet traction.
Also not the best.

The tires I have at the moment are better than the BFG KO2's for wet traction, several makes and models of A/T tires are better than the BFG KO2's for wet traction, which is the point.

The KO2's are better than the KO's, which were better than the BFG Radial All Terrain T/A/s. But there are still better tires for wet traction than the KO2's available today.

Wet traction isn't the only factor to consider for most buyers. Most buyers never research what tires might best suit their needs. Most buyers just buy what they like the looks of, or whatever the tire store recommends.

Bottom line: Buy what you want. But if you're looking for specific traits and abilities in a tire, do your research.
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Old 02-02-2023, 04:03 PM #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexington View Post
I think anyone here who is providing personal experience, especially when they give info such as road condition, weather and tire wear is providing data. We just need more of it to narrow down what’s causing it.

Sorry I didn’t mean to say it wasn’t a factor at all. I just don’t feel it’s a primary factor that is causing KO2s slip when wet from my personal exp. I have lived in California most of my life. I’ll be 60 soon. As far as first rain of the season goes, there is always a slight increase of accidents because of all the oil build up over the summer and the first rains brings them up to the surface until a few rain storms wash it away. But do these conditions make the KO2 more prone to slipping compared to other AT tires. Unknown.

I’ve only experienced slipping with two cars in my life time, my RX7 and 4Runner. My RX7 slipped several times. I finally changed my tires and the problem went away. The other was two years ago in March in my 4Runner. There had been very heavy rain earlier that day and temp was in the high 50’s. My rear tires slid 3 times that day. I had Nitto Terra Grapplers on that came with the vehicle when I bought it. I believe they were half worn when I got rid of them shortly afterwards. All of my slipping experience happened in the winter or early spring during or just after heavy rain. Also, I’ve been running KO/KO2 for over 20 years on my SUVs and never had an issue with them for any reason. This is why in my opinion I feel the first rains isn’t a big factor here. That said, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. I’m sure it has. But for everyone who’s complained about the tires slipping when wet, how many experienced this after the first rains? We really don’t have enough data to say either way.

Anyway, I definitely agree with you that even though people are aware of the first rains hazards or other hazards for that matter, there are still plenty of idiots that ignore them. It’s just like me watching YouTube video of people driving in the snow. A high portion of the crashes occur just from people driving to fast. And that, as you say, are from people who have bad driving habits.
Good stuff.

I think the variables in the data would be astronomical!
Tire style: A/T, M/T, Street, Summer, High Performance
Vehicle:Car, truck, suv
vehicle weight distribution: heavy front, heavy rear, balanced, top heavy, bottom heavy.
Vehicles suspension: stiff, soft, sway bars, etc.
Vehicle drive: 4x4, awd, rear wheel, front wheel, LSD.
Driving habit: good → bad
Tire age:Old tires are stiffer/harder, new tires will be softer and stickier
Tire pressure: sure!
Surface: asphalt, concrete, gravel, wet, dry, hot, cold, bumpy, smooth, angled, worn, new.
I "calculate" that there are millions of data points at this point.

I'll get started now: no I won't. I'll just drive careful when the conditions call for it. ☺
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Old 02-03-2023, 01:46 PM #67
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I've never had a vehicle with off road tires before so I have no point of reference.
All I can say is I'm experiencing the rear of the truck side slipping going around a corner at ~10-15 MPH on a wet street (not even raining). I've never noticed front slippage which is maybe due to better traction of engine weight. I'm already a slow cautious driver but now I really slow down which poses other risks when there someone behind me.
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Old 02-03-2023, 04:17 PM #68
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Quote:
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I've never had a vehicle with off road tires before so I have no point of reference.
All I can say is I'm experiencing the rear of the truck side slipping going around a corner at ~10-15 MPH on a wet street (not even raining). I've never noticed front slippage which is maybe due to better traction of engine weight. I'm already a slow cautious driver but now I really slow down which poses other risks when there someone behind me.
Now that you mentioned it. When Terra Grappler slipped it was just the back end sliding out on me. One was at around 35 mph on the freeway off ramp in a S-Turn. The other two were just as you said. Just for clarification Iím talking about the Nitto Terra Grappler that were on my 4Runner at the time.

Last edited by Lexington; 02-18-2023 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 02-18-2023, 02:55 PM #69
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I've never had a vehicle with off road tires before so I have no point of reference.
All I can say is I'm experiencing the rear of the truck side slipping going around a corner at ~10-15 MPH on a wet street (not even raining). I've never noticed front slippage which is maybe due to better traction of engine weight. I'm already a slow cautious driver but now I really slow down which poses other risks when there someone behind me.

I had the same issue with tires that were all season and had plenty of tread left still. Switched to factory sized Falken Rubitreks and they crush in all weather. Very soft ride too, they are great tires.


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Old 02-19-2023, 11:12 AM #70
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I think they changed the compound of the tires.
I replaced the bf Goodrich tires because of the sliding in rain.

On a wrangler and 4runner, Iíll never buy them again.
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Old 02-20-2023, 06:20 AM #71
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I am a KO2 hater. Very dangerous on wet roads. I hate them so much that I sold them with <200 miles on wife’s brand new Wrangler.

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Old 02-20-2023, 01:57 PM #72
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Well hopefully, this issue has been addressed with the K03 coming out in a few months.
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Old 02-22-2023, 10:33 AM #73
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I drove through some rain this morning on the way into work. No issues. Iíve ran these on my 4Runner for over 70k miles between 265 and 285 sizes. I have never experienced slipping with these tires. To me, they are a good, not great, wet weather tire.


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Old 04-08-2023, 09:07 PM #74
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FWIW, I just drove 2500 miles from socal to Washington state and back (including side trips) in all kinds of rain, hail, light snow, light ice...and the K02 tires never skipped a beat once BFG K02's 265/70/17 REALLY sketchy in the rain.

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Old 04-09-2023, 12:05 PM #75
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Well hopefully, this issue has been addressed with the K03 coming out in a few months.

Good to know about the release! I might wait on my purchase to see what they look like. I donít have traction problems but I know how disappointed I was to see the KO2ís hopefully they dialed back the trendy sidewall crap.

The ďspilloverĒ shoulder / sidewall lugs ruined it for me. They wanted to make it look like some flames or some cheap gimmick the SEMA guys would buy.

Iíd like to see something closer to the original.


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