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Old 03-02-2023, 12:55 PM #31
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
Car Care Nut gives vague recommendations that won’t hurt your vehicle, but they keep his service bay full and people sharing his monetized YouTube videos. He’s preying on fear. We buy Toyota because we want reliable. He preys on that instinct by sowing doubt that just to happens to financially benefit him in two ways. He doesn’t do root cause analysis. He doesn’t have access to data. He doesn’t do controlled experiments to understand the actual wear to the oil. He sees failed engines but he honestly doesn’t even know how they are driven.

I’m a manufacturing quality engineer that actually durability tests engines for a living. I know enough to know that I don’t know enough to make a recommendation on oil change intervals other than listen to what the manufacturer recommends. I’ve seen the abuse that engines can take but even what I’ve done isn’t near what testing the actual design and spec engineers do. My expertise is narrow and I’m cognizant of that.

From a purely pragmatic perspective, this is a 14 year old engine. If it were sensitive to oil changes, we would know by now.
Have you performed the "Starbucks" durability test? Wife says, "I just have to have a Starbucks coffee right now." This durability test includes run cycles that are about 5-10 minutes long, consisting of a cold start, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, then idle to turning speed, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, slow-turn to join queue 3-5min idling, get drink, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, shut off engine.

Assume 20% of engine starts are trips to Starbucks, 40% are cold starts to Trader Joes (5 miles one-way) and 39.5% are somewhat longer trips (30-50 miles) city/freeway driving, and 0.5% are trips 140 miles one-way on interstate highways... how long does the oil last? Assume ambient temperature range is 40-120 F (Phoenix, AZ).

Last edited by DougR; 03-02-2023 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 03-02-2023, 03:00 PM #32
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He bought his wife a new GX460 and did the first oil change at 1,000 miles and he shows all the metal fragments in the filter. After seeing this I'm all-in on the first one at 1,000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1605&v=ttRIRwIaNd0&feature=youtu.be

And then there's this guy, former head of Nissan's GT-R engine division speaking on intervals. At the price of Costco's 0W-20 one could afford to follow his advice as well.

Change Engine Oil Every 2000 Miles! - YouTube
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Old 03-02-2023, 03:27 PM #33
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Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam View Post
You can get your 6.5 quarts of Mobil 1 at Walmart for $35 or less. Quaker State is even cheaper and just as good, some studies say even better in some aspects. Toyota OEM filters off Amazon for $42 for 10 or $4.20 apiece, delivered. So really we’re talking an oil change for less than $39 and 20 minutes of my time. I’d spend more time just getting it to a dealer, let alone the wait and getting it back home. Then there is the issue of minimum wage lube techs stripping the bolts out on your skid plate by zipping them back in with a cordless impact. All that said, I still change at 10K intervals because the synthetic holds up and 95% of our miles are interstate highways.
I agree with ya 100% but i'm going to assume we haven't done the Bald Eagles to Beavers $$ conversion for our pricing, as I'm a Canadian eh.

And yes, I cringe at the thought of some teenage kid taking an impact to my skid plate bolts, drain plug or even oil filter housing.
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Old 03-02-2023, 03:54 PM #34
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i am looking at a 2020 4 runner limited 2 wd it has only 28,000 miles. In viewing the car fax report all oil changes were at 5000 miles except 2 changes which were at 10,000 miles. Are these two changes at higher miles enough to stop me from purchaseing the 4 runner. I am not sure if he towed with it or not .
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Old 03-02-2023, 05:02 PM #35
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Old 03-02-2023, 05:18 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REKscooter View Post
i am looking at a 2020 4 runner limited 2 wd it has only 28,000 miles. In viewing the car fax report all oil changes were at 5000 miles except 2 changes which were at 10,000 miles. Are these two changes at higher miles enough to stop me from purchaseing the 4 runner. I am not sure if he towed with it or not .
Thing's trash now. Don't bother.
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Old 03-02-2023, 08:29 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougR View Post
Have you performed the "Starbucks" durability test? Wife says, "I just have to have a Starbucks coffee right now." This durability test includes run cycles that are about 5-10 minutes long, consisting of a cold start, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, then idle to turning speed, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, slow-turn to join queue 3-5min idling, get drink, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, shut off engine.

Assume 20% of engine starts are trips to Starbucks, 40% are cold starts to Trader Joes (5 miles one-way) and 39.5% are somewhat longer trips (30-50 miles) city/freeway driving, and 0.5% are trips 140 miles one-way on interstate highways... how long does the oil last? Assume ambient temperature range is 40-120 F (Phoenix, AZ).
Hmmm... sounds like you should follow severe service recommendations. Also in the manual. ;)
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Old 03-02-2023, 08:39 PM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4oreigner View Post
He bought his wife a new GX460 and did the first oil change at 1,000 miles and he shows all the metal fragments in the filter. After seeing this I'm all-in on the first one at 1,000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1605&v=ttRIRwIaNd0&feature=youtu.be

And then there's this guy, former head of Nissan's GT-R engine division speaking on intervals. At the price of Costco's 0W-20 one could afford to follow his advice as well.

Change Engine Oil Every 2000 Miles! - YouTube
The filter literally caught everything he is telling you to be concerned about. Oil flows outside in. The filter is doing its job. Unless you have so many chips that the filter is plugged up, this is a non-issue.

This also might be the only time that someone has mentioned the 1GR-FE and the VR38DETT in the same breath.
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Old 03-02-2023, 11:10 PM #39
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From a psychology standpoint, sometimes people get defensive about the things in which they are harboring guilt. In the context of this conversation, it’s kinda hilarious to imagine a buncha 4runner bros dying on the 10K-interval hill are deep down, feeling super guilty about not changing their oil more frequently.

Last edited by aggrobot; 03-02-2023 at 11:14 PM. Reason: Grammarararar
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Old 03-03-2023, 12:15 PM #40
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
Hmmm... sounds like you should follow severe service recommendations. Also in the manual. ;)
Yes, I'm certainly on a severe service schedule of 5,000 miles maximum OCI. Never was a doubt about that.

Does anyone perform oil and engine durability testing for the equivalent of 200,000 miles of severe service? I'm thinking a cold start on each cycle and the high number of short runs is cost prohibitive. I think more than a few engine designs that would fail a severe service test.

Last edited by DougR; 03-03-2023 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 03-03-2023, 03:11 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aggrobot View Post
From a psychology standpoint, sometimes people get defensive about the things in which they are harboring guilt. In the context of this conversation, it’s kinda hilarious to imagine a buncha 4runner bros dying on the 10K-interval hill are deep down, feeling super guilty about not changing their oil more frequently.
So much guilt for following the manual… this isn’t a matter of opinion that would lead to “dying on a hill”.

I’ve had my oil analyzed at 10k mile changes and for my duty cycle, oil, and filter I actually have life left in the oil.

At the end of the day, the only true determination of OCI is regular oil sampling and analysis. For everyone else, 5k-10k will do just fine.
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Old 03-03-2023, 04:13 PM #42
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The Car Care nut has said in the past that if you trade your car every 3-4 years you could go longer time and mileage than he recommends but if you keep your car 8-15 years do the shorter time and mileage. He replaced an engine that was burning a lot of oil in a Camry or something that had around 140k miles and showed the crosshatch gone on the cylinders. He said the owner followed the Toyota oil change interval and that more frequent oil changes would have prevented an engine replacement. If you trade frequently and do shorter mileage you are just helping the next owner at your expense. He recently did a video with 2 4runners, one a 3rd gen that had 310k miles with lots of oil changes that still runs great. The other a 4th gen with 150k miles that the engine is shot and burning oil. The 4th gen owner bought the vehicle used and did not have any past maintenance records. He has also said in the past that people come in with those oil test results that come out good yet the engine is burning oil.
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Old 03-03-2023, 04:20 PM #43
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Quote:
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So much guilt for following the manual… this isn’t a matter of opinion that would lead to “dying on a hill”.

I’ve had my oil analyzed at 10k mile changes and for my duty cycle, oil, and filter I actually have life left in the oil.

At the end of the day, the only true determination of OCI is regular oil sampling and analysis. For everyone else, 5k-10k will do just fine.
its a joke. relax. My statement was beyond absurd. All the same, if you find yourself getting defensive about oil change interval conversations, maybe get outside a little more.

Ill never understand why folks insist on passionately defending whats in the owners manual/warranty guide, and will then double down by going after people who change it sooner, but hey, its your time and energy. I was only trying to make light. By all means, if you need to get red in the face about this, dont let me stand in the way.

Last edited by aggrobot; 03-03-2023 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 03-03-2023, 11:39 PM #44
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Oil changes every 5000 miles keeps me sane!
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Old 03-04-2023, 12:48 PM #45
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Changed oil after the first 1K, and then at every 5k mark on the odo - just like the Car Care Nut says.

Cheap peace of mind.
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