05-24-2023, 01:15 PM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiles_s
Genuinely curious about 2 things, and thanks for sharing your experience:
1) Did you try the new pads with new non-slotted rotors? Or, did you change both?
2) I'd appreciate pointers to the literature you're referring to. I still don't understand how slotted rotors could be superior to standard at dissipating heat as they have slightly less mass.
3) I do buy that slotted might help reduce buildup for the reasons "engineering explained" noted regarding slots "scrubbing" the pads resulting in a) faster pad wear but perhaps b) the scrubbing helps with overheated pad-transfer to the rotor.
Regardless, truly appreciate your BTDT experience.
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You’ll get a mixed bag in the literature:
Brake Discs — Smooth vs Drilled vs Slotted – Newparts.com
“Slotted discs are also better at heat dissipation than plain or smooth ones, and are generally on par with drilled rotors.”
“The biggest advantage of slotted rotors over drilled rotors is the fact that the former are structurally more sound. This is also why slotted brake discs are used on professional race cars.”
Drilled vs Slotted Rotors, Which is Better for You? - PowerStop Brakes
“Slotted rotors do not improve any heat transfer. However, the slots can improve brake output by removing gas and dust that is trapped between the pad and rotor. This gas and dust reduces the friction force by preventing the pad from fully contacting the rotor.”
“Given the choice between drill holes and slots, the drill holes will give you better braking power over slots for normal city/highway driving. This is why high end BMW, Porsche, Corvette, and Mercedes rotors are drilled, not slotted. However, for track racing (high speed stops), slotted rotors are the better choice.”
Just a moment...
“Slotted rotor grooves offer two distinct benefits under heavy braking: brake fade, from high-temperature brake pad outgassing, can be significantly reduced, allowing gases to escape through the slots; and the grooves shave off thin layers of brake pad material, reducing glazing and improving braking consistency.”
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05-24-2023, 03:41 PM
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#17
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam
You’ll get a mixed bag in the literature:
Brake Discs — Smooth vs Drilled vs Slotted – Newparts.com
“Slotted discs are also better at heat dissipation than plain or smooth ones, and are generally on par with drilled rotors.”
“The biggest advantage of slotted rotors over drilled rotors is the fact that the former are structurally more sound. This is also why slotted brake discs are used on professional race cars.”
Drilled vs Slotted Rotors, Which is Better for You? - PowerStop Brakes
“Slotted rotors do not improve any heat transfer. However, the slots can improve brake output by removing gas and dust that is trapped between the pad and rotor. This gas and dust reduces the friction force by preventing the pad from fully contacting the rotor.”
“Given the choice between drill holes and slots, the drill holes will give you better braking power over slots for normal city/highway driving. This is why high end BMW, Porsche, Corvette, and Mercedes rotors are drilled, not slotted. However, for track racing (high speed stops), slotted rotors are the better choice.”
Just a moment...
“Slotted rotor grooves offer two distinct benefits under heavy braking: brake fade, from high-temperature brake pad outgassing, can be significantly reduced, allowing gases to escape through the slots; and the grooves shave off thin layers of brake pad material, reducing glazing and improving braking consistency.”
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Thank you!
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05-25-2023, 09:49 PM
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#18
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Did OP ever state what problem they're trying to solve? If it's brake fade, upgrade the brake fluid. If it's stopping power, I'd try more aggressive pads (if they exist?). But like someone else pointed out the 4Runner seems to brake pretty well all things considered, but damn is the pedal mush. I have a Porsche as a fun/track car and the pedal is rock solid, always makes for a fun first mile or two when I swap from one car to the other.
IMHO both drilled and solid rotors would introduce the ability of foreign objects (sand, mud, tiny pieces of rock, etc) to get stuck in/on the rotor and chew the pads up. They're used in track/racing applications to help dissipate heat/dust, with slotted usually being preferred due to drilled introducing weak points where cracks can/will form between holes under repeated/hard use. The drilled rotors on my Porsche definitely look cool, but they'll be replaced with slotted for peace of mind. Never seen a 4Runner on a track but I guess there's a first time for everything!
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05-26-2023, 05:14 PM
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#19
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam
Well my unscientific testing has proven otherwise on several vehicle types: Suburban K2500, 4Runner, Honda Accord. In each case warping or brake pad deposits (cementite) has been eliminated and that includes a huge amount of mountain driving in CA with climbs/descents over 8,000’. The Honda OEM rear rotors cracked. No difference in brake pad life on any of the vehicles. The literature says this is possible on cheaper, poorly machined rotors as they can shave off brake pad material. I’m getting 80K to 90K on 4Runner pads in the front. All the literature and science says slotteds run cooler and if they run cooler there is less of a chance that you harden an area of the rotor which creates your “warp.”
One thing I will acknowledge, there is no discernable or observable difference in breaking distance.
P.S. Your so-called Porsche Macan runs a 2.0 liter Audi engine.
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IVe run drilled and also drilled and slotted. They are great for initial bite in the rain. Where they really shine is a point of performance the 4 runner will never hit so its somewhat moot point. You can get slightly shorter stop times but this is when the normal rotors overheat and the slotted-drilled ones allow abit more use prior to fade. They are also good at removing deposits that put the rotor out of balance or give it the shudder most people incorrectly call warp
But for some applications they are quite nice, maybe with some Hawk pads to. For drilled you want them chamfered to help minimize cracks.. ive cracked a few that werent.
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05-27-2023, 01:52 PM
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#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc813
Did OP ever state what problem they're trying to solve? If it's brake fade, upgrade the brake fluid. If it's stopping power, I'd try more aggressive pads (if they exist?). But like someone else pointed out the 4Runner seems to brake pretty well all things considered, but damn is the pedal mush. I have a Porsche as a fun/track car and the pedal is rock solid, always makes for a fun first mile or two when I swap from one car to the other.
IMHO both drilled and solid rotors would introduce the ability of foreign objects (sand, mud, tiny pieces of rock, etc) to get stuck in/on the rotor and chew the pads up. They're used in track/racing applications to help dissipate heat/dust, with slotted usually being preferred due to drilled introducing weak points where cracks can/will form between holes under repeated/hard use. The drilled rotors on my Porsche definitely look cool, but they'll be replaced with slotted for peace of mind. Never seen a 4Runner on a track but I guess there's a first time for everything!
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331K miles of experience, 250K of that with slotted on the 4Runner, lot of off-road miles including sand and mud. Sand or mud chewing up pads has never been an issue. The ceramic pads are too hard to get chewed up.
Yeah the 4R will never see a track, which is why I always get a chuckle over guys here talking about their improved high speed cornering/handling with KDSS or XREAS.
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05-09-2024, 10:14 PM
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#21
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam
331K miles of experience, 250K of that with slotted on the 4Runner, lot of off-road miles including sand and mud. Sand or mud chewing up pads has never been an issue. The ceramic pads are too hard to get chewed up.
Yeah the 4R will never see a track, which is why I always get a chuckle over guys here talking about their improved high speed cornering/handling with KDSS or XREAS.
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Chuckle away. Sure It may never see a track but living in the DC area and taking on/off ramps for the Beltway, 66, 81, 50, 95, etc at speed so I can better merge with the idiots on the highway, the XREAS is noticeably better at maintaining the body control and feels significantly more stable. I'll take that every day when I get an SUV that takes those ramps like a car with minimal body lean.
Before I bought my LE, I rented a brand new, less than 5k miles, SR5 in Denver from Avis for a work trip and took a weekend to go skiing in Keystone. On the way back it felt really unsettled and an unnerving amount of body lean on the big sweepers on 70. I suspect the 17 inch wheels/tires are also a component of that.
We also have some country twisties here.
Sure I drive 10mph over the speed limit, when appropriate, as a general rule. I love the fact that my 4runner handles almost like a car on the highway and can still go get rough and tumble.
After that experience in Denver, I would never own a 4runner without XREAS, KDDS, or aftermarket suspension. And I'd never track the 4runner, but there is real-world practical application here.
To each his own though.
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05-10-2024, 03:46 PM
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#22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthYota
Chuckle away. Sure It may never see a track but living in the DC area and taking on/off ramps for the Beltway, 66, 81, 50, 95, etc at speed so I can better merge with the idiots on the highway, the XREAS is noticeably better at maintaining the body control and feels significantly more stable. I'll take that every day when I get an SUV that takes those ramps like a car with minimal body lean.
Before I bought my LE, I rented a brand new, less than 5k miles, SR5 in Denver from Avis for a work trip and took a weekend to go skiing in Keystone. On the way back it felt really unsettled and an unnerving amount of body lean on the big sweepers on 70. I suspect the 17 inch wheels/tires are also a component of that.
We also have some country twisties here.
Sure I drive 10mph over the speed limit, when appropriate, as a general rule. I love the fact that my 4runner handles almost like a car on the highway and can still go get rough and tumble.
After that experience in Denver, I would never own a 4runner without XREAS, KDDS, or aftermarket suspension. And I'd never track the 4runner, but there is real-world practical application here.
To each his own though.
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It definitely makes a difference if you have to make an evasive maneuver on the freeway at like 75. Body roll significantly reduced. That said, unless I'm on a 65+ road, I'm usually driving around with KDSS off. Provides a smoother ride through potholes and whatnot with it off.
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05-12-2024, 10:12 AM
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#23
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80,000 miles + on full setup of Towing Powerstop
All good and very low brake dust. Very happy with wear and performance.
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05-22-2024, 12:14 AM
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#24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Planet
It definitely makes a difference if you have to make an evasive maneuver on the freeway at like 75. Body roll significantly reduced. That said, unless I'm on a 65+ road, I'm usually driving around with KDSS off. Provides a smoother ride through potholes and whatnot with it off.
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good to know. I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing driving with KDSS system but I've read that it's better than XREAS.
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