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Old 07-12-2023, 11:53 AM #1
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Trading in my 2022 Subaru Outback XT Touring for a 2023 4Runner Limited

Let me start by saying Im 58, not a trail guy or camper. My wife and I like road trips and going to antique markets and outdoor events. The Subaru is a good vehicle but the quality stinks. Warped rotors, squeaks and rattles, engine ticking, cvt is mismatched and turbo lag is annoying with it. Also lack of front room for things, seats are hard after a few hours of driving. My wife and I got a good deal $2900 off MSRP on a blue limited with the rosewood interior and it has that cool cargo tray. It comes in late August. We put down our deposit and agreed on a trade in price for the Subaru. We hope the 4Runner is a good choice for our road trip vehicle. We live in NY bur travel to Maine and PA very often. What does the 4Runner fan base think about what were trying to do ???
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Old 07-12-2023, 12:19 PM #2
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That's interesting. On the 5th gen Facebook page, I think someone did the opposite move a few months ago. A modern Subaru Outback is a superior on-road vehicle to the 5th gen 4Runner. Interesting to hear that you've had a bad enough experience with your Outback that you feel the need to transition to a 4Runner, even with mostly on-road no-towing driving. Do not expect any of the 4Runners road manners to be better than the Subaru's. And the 4Runner will guzzle far more gas while being much slower.

I also speak from experience. We have a 2023 4Runner and a 2023 Outback Premium 2.5L in our driveway. We love them both, and they both have their pros and cons. The Subaru is the superior on-road and snowy road vehicle. The 4Runner is the superior offroader.

It's your money, but you asked for opinions, and in my opinion it sounds like a strange move for someone in your situation. But the heart wants what it wants.
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Old 07-12-2023, 01:30 PM #3
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I love road tripping my 4Runner. I find it to be extremely comfortable, roomy, and road noise is pretty good inside. Only down side is gas mileage, but I really don't worry about it loving what I drive. As most of us here say it just feels like an extremely solid vehicle to drive.

I have some experience with an Outback. My father in law has a 2015 Limited that I've driven quite a bit. It feels very tinny. Lot's of road noise. The CVT SUCKS. For a 4cyl I find the power ok on the lower end, but once you try to go anywhere it doesn't. Only thing I really like about it are the seats as they are comfortable and the leather is nice and soft. MPGs are obviously good too. He's starting to have some issues with it now at 50k or so miles. Couple times it didn't start or really weak battery. The battery was new, and starts fine most of the time until it doesn't. Window switches have had issues and his passenger window doesn't go back up sometimes. He was at the dealer last week, but not sure what came out of it honestly

We almost bought an Ascent for my wife a few years back and couldn't get over that transmission and all the flashing safety lights. Really glad I didn't with all the Ascent recalls and Subaru's QC issues of late.

If I were taking a road trip I would take my 4Runner 10/10 times. I have zero interest in owning a Subaru.
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Old 07-12-2023, 01:33 PM #4
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..."engine ticking"...

You will be right at home in a 4Runner.

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Old 07-12-2023, 01:54 PM #5
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..."engine ticking"...

You will be right at home in a 4Runner.
lmfao
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Old 07-12-2023, 01:54 PM #6
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I am truly appreciating the honest feedback so far. I think the QC in the Subaru is subpar and with this many issues at 17,000 miles I am worried what the future will bring. All the safety nannies always buzzing and beeping are driving me insane as well lol. I figured the Limited 4R with that air suspension and 20' wheels should ride nice and the interior looks like nice comfortable leather. The Subaru has napa leather. nice. But the seats after a few hours feel hard. Wife agreed and she's a small girl.
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Old 07-12-2023, 02:04 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable Vic View Post
I am truly appreciating the honest feedback so far. I think the QC in the Subaru is subpar and with this many issues at 17,000 miles I am worried what the future will bring. All the safety nannies always buzzing and beeping are driving me insane as well lol. I figured the Limited 4R with that air suspension and 20' wheels should ride nice and the interior looks like nice comfortable leather. The Subaru has napa leather. nice. But the seats after a few hours feel hard. Wife agreed and she's a small girl.
I remember the 4th gen having a rear air bag option that replaced the coil springs, I am not aware of any 5th Gen 4Runner trims with air suspension. I would like to hear more about that.

The Lexus GX has rear air suspension I believe.

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Old 07-12-2023, 02:26 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable Vic View Post
I am truly appreciating the honest feedback so far. I think the QC in the Subaru is subpar and with this many issues at 17,000 miles I am worried what the future will bring. All the safety nannies always buzzing and beeping are driving me insane as well lol. I figured the Limited 4R with that air suspension and 20' wheels should ride nice and the interior looks like nice comfortable leather.
I think the U.S. made Subarus have pretty good QC.... but virtually nothing has the uber-amazing QC that the japanese-built 4Runner/GX460 do.

You will have just as many safety nannies in the 2020+ 4Runner, except they don't work quite as well or have quite as much capability as they do in the Subaru. 20" wheels are also not a plus for ride quality, I'd presume the non-Limited models riding on their 17" wheels are more plush (I've never driven a Limited 5th gen, I'm not a fan of the trim). Do 5th gen Limiteds have air suspension? I would hate that from a reliability perspective--my buddy's air suspension on his GX470 failed the month he bought the thing... $$$

It sounds like the 4Runner is more of a potentially emotional than logical decision for you, and there's nothing wrong with that. Drive what you want to drive. I bought a 5th gen for my own reasons, I know how it goes!
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Old 07-12-2023, 03:25 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable Vic View Post
I am truly appreciating the honest feedback so far. I think the QC in the Subaru is subpar and with this many issues at 17,000 miles I am worried what the future will bring. All the safety nannies always buzzing and beeping are driving me insane as well lol. I figured the Limited 4R with that air suspension and 20' wheels should ride nice and the interior looks like nice comfortable leather. The Subaru has napa leather. nice. But the seats after a few hours feel hard. Wife agreed and she's a small girl.
I think you are referring to the XREAS - no 5th gen has air suspension. the 20s ride firm, I had them and switched them to 17s. the XREAS is nice. a lot of people hate on it but it really isn't a bad system. it's expensive to fix because of the hydraulic line linkages. some people have bad luck with them, my original XREAS lasted 150,000 miles, some people get only 80,000 miles. so keep that in mind. you can always scrap the XREAS and install standard suspension as well

seat comfort really depends where you're coming from and what you're used to.
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Old 07-12-2023, 05:43 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable Vic View Post
I am truly appreciating the honest feedback so far. I think the QC in the Subaru is subpar and with this many issues at 17,000 miles I am worried what the future will bring. All the safety nannies always buzzing and beeping are driving me insane as well lol. I figured the Limited 4R with that air suspension and 20' wheels should ride nice and the interior looks like nice comfortable leather. The Subaru has napa leather. nice. But the seats after a few hours feel hardh. Wife agreed and she's a small girl.
Subarus are junk and highly overrated in snow. Wanna see a pic of one in the ditch at the bottom of our property because coasting downhill with the AWD had the wheels lose traction and the response to apply the gas pedal sent them into the ditch?

How many Subarus make it past 100K miles without blowing a head gasket?

How many Subarus do you see without Bernie Sanders and COEXIST bumper stickers?
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Old 07-12-2023, 06:36 PM #11
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Subarus are junk and highly overrated in snow. Wanna see a pic of one in the ditch at the bottom of our property because coasting downhill with the AWD had the wheels lose traction and the response to apply the gas pedal sent them into the ditch?

How many Subarus make it past 100K miles without blowing a head gasket?

How many Subarus do you see without Bernie Sanders and COEXIST bumper stickers?
This is a fairly garbage post, in my opinion. I'll be charitable to you and ignore the third irrational, whiny "paragraph".

IIRC, the base case AWD operation for a modern CVT Subaru is a 40/60 F/R power split. That's a good split, and puts power down proactively, rather than reactively. Unlike old school part-time 4WD, a Subaru is putting this power down 24/7, which is very nice if the road keeps alternating between dry and snowy. If the Subaru from your one little anecdote had problems, I'm curious if there were junk tires or junk driver involved. Everything can get stuck.

Get your head out of 2004. Modern FA/FB engined Subarus, especially nonturbocharged ones, do not have headgasket problems. The EJ25 engine, and the EJ engine family in general, that was so famous for that is long gone. To reiterate, 2015+ Subarus, other than the STI, do. not. have. headgasket. problems. I know of plenty already on 150-200k without any problems, just silent happy owners enjoying their cars.
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Old 07-12-2023, 06:55 PM #12
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If I were looking and didn't want the next gen, I would get the GX and forget about the 4R. GX is much nicer all around.
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Old 07-12-2023, 07:51 PM #13
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As far as new vehicles go, the 4Runner is nearly unparalleled in Quality. If that’s the goal, you will be happy. The limited is solid on-road compared to other trims, but as others have stated the platform as a whole is meant for off-road. I am comfortable and enjoy driving my ‘21 limited over long distances. Fuel economy isn’t great but if you can deal with driving at the speed limit it isn’t horrible. I’ve averaged 20 mpg over 36k miles. Absolutely zero issues in those miles, just regular maintenance.
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Old 07-12-2023, 09:47 PM #14
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Trading in my 2022 Subaru Outback XT Touring for a 2023 4Runner Limited

Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatSlam View Post
Subarus are junk and highly overrated in snow. Wanna see a pic of one in the ditch at the bottom of our property because coasting downhill with the AWD had the wheels lose traction and the response to apply the gas pedal sent them into the ditch?

How many Subarus make it past 100K miles without blowing a head gasket?

How many Subarus do you see without Bernie Sanders and COEXIST bumper stickers?

Had an 04 Impreza Outback and a 06 Legacy which I got used for my son in college. Great driving. Great on the ice that Dallas gets.

Yes they are tinny, at least the Impreza was. They are great to about 80k miles. Then head gaskets, radiators, wheel bearings, ac compressors, alternators all go to crap. You throw a little money at it then something else goes out.

Never had issues like this with any Toyota going back to the 70s.

Asked the mechanic that worked on them what he thought of the newer Subarus. He made most of his money tuning STI turbos. He said they were still juke. I am sure I helped put one of his kids through their first year of college.

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Old 07-12-2023, 11:12 PM #15
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Subaru, a legend when driving in snow. Note the tracks. He lost it when he let up on the go pedal and with all wheels connected to drivetrain, he lost traction and started to spin. Then he punched the accelerator in an attempt to save it….right into the ditch on the inside of the curve.

This curve is at the bottom of our property. Several cars lose it here every year, but they go over the outside edge. Subaru guy was the first to lose it on the inside. Someday I’ll put up a trail cam and make a montage video of the carnage.
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