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Old 05-16-2024, 01:27 PM #1
FourT6and2 FourT6and2 is offline
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Can Someone Explain Why Front is Lifted More?

When people talk about lifting the 5th Gen 4R, it's usually in terms like 2"/1", 2.5"/1.5", or 3"/2" (front/rear). I know ideally you want a bit of rake and I think someone told me the stock vehicle has 1" of rake built in? So if you lifted both the front and rear the same, wouldn't that maintain the stock rake? If you lift the front 1" more than the rear, doesn't that level the vehicle?

For example, I have a '21 TRD Pro. The stock Fox suspension is said to provide a 1" lift both front and rear. If I did a 3/2 lift, that would put the front 2" higher and the rear at 1" higher than where it sits now with the Fox suspension. But that would mean I'm either level or have a reverse rake? The front might now sit higher than the rear, no?

I feel like I'm missing a key point here because it doesn't make sense to me.

Basically... I'm fitting 17x9 -38 wheels with 285/70/17 tires and I need to decide how much lift to go with. The front coilovers won't be an issue because they're adjustable and I can just adjust until I'm happy. But I need to purchase rear springs for a specific lift amount. 1", 1.5", or 2". I want to keep the lift as low as possible to clear the wheels/tires. So if I can avoid a 3/2 lift, I'll do it. I'm guessing a 2.5/1.5 is the sweet spot, but yeah... I'm still a bit confused as to why the rear is always lower than the front.

Last edited by FourT6and2; 05-16-2024 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 05-16-2024, 02:28 PM #2
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Fox has no lift in the rear. It has the same springs as all the other trims. Front has just under 1 inch

By going 2/1 or 3/2. You will end up with it sitting level

This is pro fox with westcott designs pro lift and 285/70/17




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Old 05-16-2024, 08:29 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
I know ideally you want a bit of rake and I think someone told me the stock vehicle has 1" of rake built in? .
I never heard that "you would want a bit of rake". Race cars, especially NASCAR, severely rake their cars for aerodynamics, but since the 4Runner has the aerodynamics of a brick, a rake has no aerodynamic sense.

Actually the 4Runners have about 2" to 3" rake from the factory, i.e. the front is lower by that amount than the rear. To measure rake, measure the distance from the center of the wheel hub to the lower lip of the fender arch front and rear. If they measure the same, there is no rake.

The 4Runner looks better, more purposeful, with no rake. It does look dorky if you raise the front beyond level, nose in the air.

There are several reasons that people put lifts and reduce the rake on 4Runners:
1. Looks, as mentioned above
2. Increase ground clearance for off roading. Every 1" increase of lift on the front results in 1" increase of front ground clearance.
3. To fit bigger wheels and tires. People also want to fit bigger tires to also increase ground clearance, but it is not as effective as a lift: 1" increase in diameter of a tire gives 1/2" greater ground clearance.
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Old 05-17-2024, 12:26 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fkheath View Post
I never heard that "you would want a bit of rake". Race cars, especially NASCAR, severely rake their cars for aerodynamics, but since the 4Runner has the aerodynamics of a brick, a rake has no aerodynamic sense.
I actually track a bit. Porsche GT3RS. So I know all about suspension setups and rake in that context. Just not with a 4x4.

Quote:
Actually the 4Runners have about 2" to 3" rake from the factory,
I see different numbers thrown around. A highly regarded 4x4 shop I'll be working with told me 1" rake. Some people online are saying 2". And now you're saying maybe it's 3" lol.

Quote:
i.e. the front is lower by that amount than the rear. To measure rake, measure the distance from the center of the wheel hub to the lower lip of the fender arch front and rear. If they measure the same, there is no rake.
That's only assuming the fenders are equally sized between the front and rear and level with respect to the body line. On a track car, the only way to measure rake and body height is to measure from the ground (a flat, level surface) to a specific point on the sub-frame of the chassis. NOT the fenders. Because the fenders are not both the same size and you get a more consistent measurements that are not affected by wheel and tire size. But I know what you're saying is typically fine for the 4Runner

Quote:
The 4Runner looks better, more purposeful, with no rake. It does look dorky if you raise the front beyond level, nose in the air.

There are several reasons that people put lifts and reduce the rake on 4Runners:
1. Looks, as mentioned above
2. Increase ground clearance for off roading. Every 1" increase of lift on the front results in 1" increase of front ground clearance.
3. To fit bigger wheels and tires. People also want to fit bigger tires to also increase ground clearance, but it is not as effective as a lift: 1" increase in diameter of a tire gives 1/2" greater ground clearance.
I think you're forgetting the big reason: so when you load the cargo area, and the cab droops, you're not sitting super low in the rear.

Last edited by FourT6and2; 05-17-2024 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:12 PM #5
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"The 4Runner looks better, more purposeful, with no rake"

To you maybe.

Both of mine look fine with my fishing boat hooked up.
They've looked great loaded for fishing out on the beach for 6 weeks or so a year. Wife, dog, chairs, umbrella and Shibumi, 4 or 5 rods, 3 coolers, recovery gear, etc.

I don't get it. It's a truck to do stuff. If I cared about level I'd have an old Lincoln Town Car.
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:16 PM #6
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"The 4Runner looks better, more purposeful, with no rake"

To you maybe.

Both of mine look fine with my fishing boat hooked up.
They've looked great loaded for fishing out on the beach for 6 weeks or so a year. Wife, dog, chairs, umbrella and Shibumi, 4 or 5 rods, 3 coolers, recovery gear, etc.

I don't get it. It's a truck to do stuff. If I cared about level I'd have an old Lincoln Town Car.
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Old 05-19-2024, 10:56 AM #7
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all you need is 2" and UCAs for 285s
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Old 05-21-2024, 05:00 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm View Post
all you need is 2" and UCAs for 285s
Yeah I think I'm gonna go with 2" front lift and 1" rear Eibach springs. Trying to decide between Fox 2.5 PES or Dirt King/Elka 2.5. The Dirt King look nicer (doesn't really matter though), have better customer service, and everything is in stock ready to go. When I call them, they pick up the phone on the first ring. Fox? Haven't been able to get through to anybody for two weeks and their is a potential issue with their DSC adjusters seizing up with no fix.
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Old 05-24-2024, 10:49 AM #9
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I have 6112s set at 1.1"s
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Old 05-24-2024, 11:24 AM #10
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I don't know if folks who like the leveled look realize that when you load anything in the back like... people, groceries, trips to home depot, etc. that level quickly becomes a rear end sag. Even when you accelerate your truck that sits level for a picture becomes a rear sag and reverse rake. I hate it.
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Old 05-24-2024, 01:16 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAviatorZ View Post
I don't know if folks who like the leveled look realize that when you load anything in the back like... people, groceries, trips to home depot, etc. that level quickly becomes a rear end sag. Even when you accelerate your truck that sits level for a picture becomes a rear sag and reverse rake. I hate it.
Exactly. 1" rake minimum.
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