Future of the 4Runner

Interesting topic came up in anther forum. With the new Highlander getting a big makeover, which meant a larger size, it's really getting close to the specs on the 4Runner. I'm not talking offroad, but they have pretty much the same interior room, are now about the same size, has more power (V6 vs V6) , rides better and gets a bit better gas mileage. This is what 99% of the people who are looking into a new "SUV" are looking at. They do not care about any offroad features.

The sales figures for the 4Runner are slipping. People who want a mid-sized offroader are going for the FJC. People who don't end up with the Highlander. Is the end of the 4Runner immanent?

And just as a "what if" scenerio, if Toyota were to shrink the size of the 4Runner (basically swap spots with the Highlander size wise), and come out with a redesigned 1st Gen 4Runner with a removable top, who would be in? I think it would be AWESOME if they did something like that. Toyota really needs a Wrangler contendor and I think something like this would do really well.

Thoughts? Comments?

*Disclamer - Please don't take this as some sort of new flash or something. I know nothing about what Toyota's plans are. I was just putting myself in their shoes and writing down what I would do.

IM SO IN if they did something like that!

p nut said:

The sales figures for the 4Runner are slipping.

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Any figures to support this claim?

I think that would be a fantastic idea, but they would have to make it at least as capable off road as the FJ if not more, and they would have to make the price cheaper to contend with the Wrangler. I don't think that is very feasible in this day and age unfortunately.

They must have something in the works for the next generation 4Runner because they are not going to just drop their flag ship mid sized SUV.

Re: Re: Future of the 4Runner

sharp4runr said:

Any figures to support this claim?

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I don't have anything directly from Toyota, but there were a few sites that claimed this, and from autos.msn.com, 4Runner sales figures were down 15% from the year before. Nothing dramatic, I suppose, but still a decrease. One could argue that it could be attributed to the rising gas cost, which affects the larger SUV's in general, especially the less gas efficient models, but regardless, I think something needs to be done with the 4Runner line or I'm pretty sure it will get the boot.

BTLFED said:

They must have something in the works for the next generation 4Runner because they are not going to just drop their flag ship mid sized SUV.

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But look at what Honda did with the Prelude. It was really their "flagship sport compact". However, it was competing against the Civic (and even the Integra). The sales of the Prelude paled against the Civic. It got the boot in 2001.

I have a Gen 1 (85) and don't think you can compare it to the current version (have an 08 sport also) The highlander like the RAV4 is front wheel drive and for that reason is a wannabe 4x4. Personally I think that the 4runner will stay the same for some time to come. When you look at everyone else is offering in the class their is no comparison.

p nut said:

But look at what Honda did with the Prelude. It was really their "flagship sport compact". However, it was competing against the Civic (and even the Integra). The sales of the Prelude paled against the Civic. It got the boot in 2001.

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Look how expensive and portly the Prelude got though. You going to get a car that is heavy with only about 20 more HP than the lighter Integra? I wouldn't. Honda brought that on themselves, just like what Toyota did with the Supra, Nissan with the 300ZTT, etc. The 4Runner is what had a huge part in making Toyota. To get rid of it would be assinine. I mean, it's been done by manufacturers before, but I just can't believe that Toyota would do such a thing.

I think the 4Runner will be around for a while but it is stuck inbetween the Highlander and the FJ and that could be an like a rock and hard place but Toyota does need to do something to distinguish itself in the market place better.

Toyota has gotten discontinued anythign that was pretty sporty so it could happen to the 4Runner but I have a hard time believing they would. Remember the Celica,Supra and MR2? All gone and not replaced because the market couldn't support them.

They need the 4runner...just like they need the "Land Cruiser" name. These names are what defines Toyota SUV line. This is why Toyota has not gotten rid of the Land Cruiser despite dismal sales on the previous generation. The new LC generation is small production only...but they need the name much more than they need yet another fullsize premium SUV. They also need a platform for the next Lexus GX, which is apparently still selling well. They need a midsize body-on-frame platform that can tow well. Who is gonna fight the Nissan Pathfinders and Ford Exploders of the world??

The FJ is NOT considered by Toyota to be midsize...it is too small inside...IMHO, it does not use it's size very well. The FJ is more of a Jeep Wrangler/Nissan Xterra competitor in Toyota eyes.

BTLFED said:

Look how expensive and portly the Prelude got though. You going to get a car that is heavy with only about 20 more HP than the lighter Integra? I wouldn't. Honda brought that on themselves, just like what Toyota did with the Supra, Nissan with the 300ZTT, etc. The 4Runner is what had a huge part in making Toyota. To get rid of it would be assinine. I mean, it's been done by manufacturers before, but I just can't believe that Toyota would do such a thing.

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The Prelude was actually right at the Integra's price range. I remember there were a ton of threads on "Should I buy a Prelude or an Integra GSR/Type R?", because they really shared almost the same target market. This is exactly why Honda decided to drop the RSX line recently. The RSX sales declined dramatically after the Si was introduced, which offered BETTER performance at a much less price.

I believe this is what will happen with the 4Runner. I'm not saying the next year or the following. But like RonMAIDEN said, unless it can distinguish itself from the Highlander and FJ, thus increasing sales and targeting a different market, I can't see a reason why Toyota would keep it in its line up.

I was actually over on toyota120.com last night where i read that the 4runners sales still top 100,000 vehicles a year and outsells the FJ 2 to 1. i dont have any other information other than what someone posted up there, so dont take these numbers at face value.

i for one am not worried about the future of the 4runner, as Thai is right, toyota needs the 4runner name, just like chevy needs the corvette.

There have got to be more than a million 4runner enthusiast who will continue to buy the 4runners as they come out, I am sure as the years go on the 4runner will have a hybrid option and come on, how many guys do you think are going to pick up a highlander over a 4runner? sequia maybe, but no way to the highlander. i test drove one and felt like a woman, sure it rides REAL smooth and has a really nice interior. but the 4runner just makes you feel like you are still driving a truck, not a big station wagon.

I wouldn't want a 4Runner any smaller than the current generation. Even the little "cute-utes" are getting bigger every generation, and some of them are getting close in size to the 4Runner.

Like Thai, I really don't see an end to the 4Runner, even if sales do dip down low. The Land Cruiser probably sells at a fraction of the 4Runner's volume, yet it seems to keep on going....so why would Toyota even consider dropping the 4Runner?

Thai said:

They need the 4runner...just like they need the "Land Cruiser" name. These names are what defines Toyota SUV line. This is why Toyota has not gotten rid of the Land Cruiser despite dismal sales on the previous generation. The new LC generation is small production only...but they need the name much more than they need yet another fullsize premium SUV. They also need a platform for the next Lexus GX, which is apparently still selling well. They need a midsize body-on-frame platform that can tow well. Who is gonna fight the Nissan Pathfinders and Ford Exploders of the world??

The FJ is NOT considered by Toyota to be midsize...it is too small inside...IMHO, it does not use it's size very well. The FJ is more of a Jeep Wrangler/Nissan Xterra competitor in Toyota eyes.

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I agree to a point with you. However, same could be argued using their sports car line. The flagship, the all-mighty Supra, was let go in the 90's, which I would say definitely defined their sports car line.

Land Cruisers, I believe, are very over priced (though very nice). They continue to live on, because of the name (like you said), but also the recognition it gets not only in the US, but worldwide.

Like I said, I'm not saying what will happen in the near future. However, look at it through a joe schmoe's eyes. You go to the dealership. You look at the 4Runner, but the Highlander next to it triggers your interest. You test drive both. You find the Highlander actually has MORE interior room than the 4Runner. Has MORE power. Has a BETTER ride. Has BETTER gas mileage. And priced almost exactly the same, with the Highlander being a bit cheaper. Now, to a regular Joe, who doesn't go off-roading, the choice should be obvious.

On the other hand, a guy looking for that weekend offroader will remember the 4Runners of the old with the rear locker, high ground clearance, etc. He will naturally also look at the FJC which offers all of that. I agree that it's a bit small on the inside, which could be a deal-breaker. But I think most off-roaders will consider the FJC a well-preped contender against the 4Runner.

The target market for the 4Runner is now getting slimmer and slimmer. The Pathfinder and Explorer market is also being affected by the Highlander, CX9 and the likes. I believe anyone looking at an Explorer has also considered a Pilot, Highlander, Murano, etc.

What do you think needs to happen to set the 4Runner apart from the Highlander and FJC? (If anything?).

While a Subaru is a poor man's Porsche, the 4Runner is a poor man's Land Cruiser. While the Highlander has a lot of suburban options, it doesn't have the capability as LC. The 4Runner fits the market for those who want to off-road in civilize AND uncivilized environments at an affordable price.

SciRunner said:

While a Subaru is a poor man's Porsche, the 4Runner is a poor man's Land Cruiser. While the Highlander has a lot of suburban options, it doesn't have the capability as LC. The 4Runner fits the market for those who want to off-road in civilize AND uncivilized environments at an affordable price.

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To respond to both you and RunnerUp's comments:

There is no way I'd choose a Highlander vs. a 4Runner. Neither would either of you. But what percentage do you think people like us make up in the whole scheme of things? How many people who buy 4Runners have taken it off road? This is why I think the 4Runner is on its way out. Bundle this along with rising gas prices and you get more and more people swaying over to the Highlander.

BTW, if my wife were looking to buy either a 4Runner or the Highlander, I'd get her the Highlander.

SciRunner said:

While a Subaru is a poor man's Porsche....

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Subaru? I always thought of a Volkswagen as a poor man's Porsche.

Probably 99% of 4Runner owners never take their vehicles off road. And that's fine because these vehicles are not really designed as offroad rigs, even if they do have a fair amount of capability built in to them.

That said, they are still selling well more than 20 years after they were introduced, which goes to prove the point that people buy the 4Runner for many other reasons than to take it off road.

Highlanders are nice, but some people either want or need the utility that comes with a full frame vehicle, especially if they want to tow anything and have the vehicle not take a beating. In fact, I bet a whole lot more 4Runner owners tow than drive off road.

Even Steven said:

Highlanders are nice, but some people either want or need the utility that comes with a full frame vehicle, especially if they want to tow anything and have the vehicle not take a beating. In fact, I bet a whole lot more 4Runner owners tow than drive off road.

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I agree that more tow and wheel. The new Highlanders only have a tow capacity of 2000 or 3500lbs or something like that. So that could be a selling point, too. However, that's really the only advantage I can see. I guess we'll see how well the 4Runner does in 08 now that it has the new, bigger Highlander out in the market.

p nut said:

I agree that more tow and wheel. The new Highlanders only have a tow capacity of 2000 or 3500lbs or something like that. So that could be a selling point, too. However, that's really the only advantage I can see. I guess we'll see how well the 4Runner does in 08 now that it has the new, bigger Highlander out in the market.

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Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison. The Highlander is all new and the 4Runner is nearing the end of its current generation. So I would expect sales to be much stronger for the Highlander and weaker for the 4Runner for '08.