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Old 05-19-2020, 12:01 PM #496
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Getting ready to purchase a 17 foot, 2800 gdw camper. Also getting a sway hitch. Driving a 2020 TRD Off Road (2010 SR5 previous). I have read tons of forums and all on this site. Lots of great info. I will post my experience once we go pick it up in Nebraska.. And no 5th gear!
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:48 PM #497
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This!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShooterF16 View Post
Hi, All. Been a little while since I posted here but thought I’d add my info. I’ve towed my 23’ travel trailer about 20k miles since I’ve had my T4R. For reference, the trailer is about 3200lbs dry and 3600 full of everything. Like everyone else, I highly recommend airbags and a WDH. I use both.

My contribution to this thread is that I also installed 4.56 gears. Since the gear swap, towing is definitely better. However, you will definitely notice the higher rpm and loss of mpg. It’s been just over a year since I’ve had the gears installed and I lose about 1.5mpg during the summer and closer to 2-2.5mpg in the winter. I have a theory that in addition to the crap winter fuel, the recommend viscosity gear oil hurts, because I notice a difference with change in outside temps (same drive and season). This is all while NOT towing.

Anyhoo, during towing, my mileage is about the same. You can’t really tow any faster, or expect that you’re going to be able to use 5th gear (although you can a little bit), but everything is a lot nicer. It’s a Toyota, so it’s happy to rev a little bit higher all the time. There is a noticeable improvement to acceleration and just getting out of your own way. Sorry, I did not take before and after 0-60 times.

My final version of the T4R is to get 34x10.5 tires (maybe the 285/70 load C) before my truck succumbs to the salt here in Syracuse. With that combo, the calculators would give me a 7% increase in mechanical ratio, vs the 15% I have now with stock size tires. Im running load E tires and the decrease in weight and taller tires may actually push me back towards “normal”mpg. And I’d still have better towing.

Would I do gears again? Yes, just sooner. If you’re contemplating a lift or bigger tires and you tow, it should be very high on your list.

Cheers,
Nate


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I pulled about 2300 pounds of car hauler with a 740 lb motorcycle on it over about 500 miles last weekend and the truck just was NOT happy. Kept it in 4th to maintain 65 mph, and the trans unlocked and/or down shifted to 3rd with only the slightest uphill grade. All in all i figured I was runnning about 7600 lbs, truck, trailer, stuff and my wife and me.

We are considering getting a small off road style trailer (teardrop style maybe?) for retirement playing and a run to the Arctic ocean. Wont even consider it without a re - gear. With 33's and all the (guesstimated) weight, 4.88 seems to be the ticket for ease of towing based on the various gearing calculators I have played with...fuel mileage running solo be damned.

I have no doubt that there are anecdotal stories of stock TR4's pulling 5000+ pounds with "no issues". To borrow a phrase, "You spent so much time worrying about whether you could, you didn't stop to consider whether you should...

Happy Towing!
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:36 PM #498
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Gen5 Towing

Picked up a 2018 with 2k miles in NC in Sep 2019 since these are reliable machines and I routinely haul 2400 lb combo with trailer and my wifes Rzr 800 and misc gear to ride. [Someday maybe a toyhauler???] This is my Bible for towing with it since I started driving it last december.

1. First thing I did before towing was hook up a Scangauge ll to baseline engine and transmission temps. Trans torque converter out is hottest and it ran 180F or less in 90F at 75 mph which is fine not towing But when I towed first time on biggest and longest runs in PA Allegheny National Forest for a baseline test, at 65 mph in 90F on a long uphill, trans got as high as 225F so way too hot but expected. So my plan all along was to install a 2018 Tacoma aux trans cooler that was mostly a direct fit up, before I towed a second time. Made friends with a smart toyota dealer parts guy and tacoma owner to help guide me. From lots of T4R towing reads, and years of towing, I knew an aux cooler was an absolute must. Only handwork for Tacoma cooler perfect fit was minor plastic cutting on drivers side behind grill, with a hacksaw and razor knife, and adding a small L-angle support bolted to a condenser hole I drilled. Install took a couple hours, with most of that pulling shield plate off front to access and reroute trans hoses. I think passenger side hose was trans return so made that the inlet to the aux cooler. Also put screen door mesh behind grill with zip ties to keep bug debris off condenser and aux cooler. In winter, 2 choices to keep trans warm, cardboard over cooler that takes 5 minutes or install Improved Raccing 165F high flow thermostatic control valve near radiator trans cooler lines above shield plate. Tow in S4, although you can tow in OD at times, but trans temp and shifting out of OD a lot will tell you when OD isnt good.

2. Agree with 2manytoyz that 4runner can absolutely haul 5000 lbs AND can use WDH, confirmed by his toyota email. Plus I did a quick unverified check of torque stress on that end frame member and its frame rail welds and they were fine. Dodge pickups can haul way more on similar end frame setup I read in a post recently. No way should you really haul more than 3000 without a WDH (based on 10 to 12% tongue weight), and a sway control is ready nice, like when towing in Nebraska wind gusts. If you tow above 1655 lbs, the T4R manual says it MUST have trailer brakes [or your insurance may NOT cover accident liability too].

3. Learn to use the manual control to stop trailer sway. It's a must. I bought a 2000 pound tongue scale to set
trailer loading. It's easy to overload things. Also get a trailer with dual wheels si ce both sets of brakes are a great help. And learn to anticipate stops. I got 50k .miles on explorer brakes when towing a lot, and 125k on police interceptor brakes by paying attention to slowing.

4. Concerning T4R engine power, I've towed 5000 lbs in a Jayco 25 ft trailer all over the U.S. with a 94 Explorer, with 160 hp V6 and the same 3.73 gears and towing package trans cooler, and ran that vehicle to 220k miles. You just have to settle for uphill speeds you get, like 35 mph running uphill past brackenridge CO in it. If you dont like the speed you get, you can upgrade tow vehicles, but the T4R is a dream and a fine midsize tow vehicle at 270 hp. Also agree with 2manytoyz that the 5000 lb limit has design margin already since manufacturers know us.

5. Ive towed up to 10000 lbs in one trailer for 9 years with a big tow vehicle, and the same jayco with a 325 hp Yukon Denali for 5 more years, and also towed with a 400 hp X5, and driven 35 ft motorhomes towing, and up to 26k lb vehicles. Ths T4R can certainly handle 5000 lbs, and if you drive like you have that behind you, it does great. People have their own opinions, as I do, but the vehicle limits are meant to show you what is acceptable and legal. I have no problem with my T4R towing at the specs it was made for. I drive 100 miles per day to work and back, so over sizing my daily driver to tow won't work for me. Hence the midsize T4R and doing my homework on towing with it.

6. Last thought. I do upgrade tow vehicle tire ratings when I run heavy towing loads, especially in summer heat. As I tell my kids, fluids kill the drivetrain, but tires kill the driver. Correct pressures every towing trip daily, good tread, and good tire rating for your loads. I've run police interceptors and M5 tires at design pressure 45 psig with loads and summer heat and high speeds. Its more important when towing to pay attention to tires.

Sorry this is long, but it has lots that I had to dig hard to see what others thought or confirmed or recommended, related to what I've found and recommend

Love this forum and learning what I dont know about my T4R and lots of ideas from you guys!
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:48 PM #499
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Agree with everything just said. I just bought a 2021 Ibex at 3700 pounds dry. Use a WDH and brake controller. Was is S3 or S4 going over the Siskiyou pass, highest point on I-5 between Canada and Mexico, and was at 40-45 mph the whole time going up.

I’d like to run air bags but I don’t have the time or tools or garage space to install them and no one local really wants to mess with it. Possibly might swap out my dobinson springs back to my 3” Icon overland springs with a heavy weight rating.

Either way it only sags a little bit more than I’d like and tows fine, just wish it was a little more level.


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Old 07-10-2020, 10:09 AM #500
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GVWR on the trailer is 3700#
Gobi rack + Hobie Kayaks is probably another 330lbs. on the roof.
Redarc brake controller
Andersen WDH
275/70/17 K02 tires
Tow in S4

I'm OK with the towing performance of the 4runner. It's not great but gets the job done. Brakes & sway control work great, no issues feeling unsafe with the weight. My only gripe is the downshifting at even the slightest grades if using cruise control (so I don't). My previous truck was a Chevy 2500HD Duramax pickup that I'd tow a 13,000# center console boat with. 4runner feels about the same towing this little trailer lol.

The photo above was loaded up for a ~600 mile round trip to the panhandle & back. Flat drive on I-10 kept speeds <70mph. Very surprised when I hand calculated 11.7 mpg when we got back, I didn't think it would be that good. We've had the trailer about a year and a half now and have a couple thousand miles of towing on it. If we were full time RV'rs I'd want a more capable tow rig but as weekend warriors the day to day use of the 4Runner + offroad capability wins for me.

IMG_0495.1 by Eric Veale, on Flickr
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Old 07-10-2020, 11:05 AM #501
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In a couple of weeks I'll be towing a u-haul car trailer and a 1948 Willys from NY to NC. It will be about 4500 lbs. combined. I'll never tow that much again so I will not be installing a trans cooler, air bags or anything else just for this one trip. I'll be keeping it around 60 MPH and 4th gear. It's about 640 miles and I don't think there are any really big hills on 95 and 81 but I don't know that for sure. Hopefully I'll be OK, I'll let ya know when I get there.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:09 PM #502
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Towing experiences with your 5th Generation

Towing a Venture Sonic Lite 23’ trailer and loaded for a weekend I’m at 9600 lbs total on the CAT scales.



Front axle 2700
Drive axle 2960
Trailer axle 3940 (single axle)

Fastway e2 WDH and Tekonsha Voyager EBC. Just added a Derale 13504 transmission cooler to bring the transmission temps down a bit. Always drive in S4, sometimes manually downshift on a long incline if I’m dropping speed.
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Old 07-13-2020, 11:01 PM #503
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2013 Toyota 4Runner SR5 towing a 2005 Kodiak 160. The trailer is 2,680 lbs dry I think.

This is with a weight distribution hitch. Without it the rear end is too low.
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Old 07-14-2020, 12:14 AM #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplore View Post
I pull this with a Reese weight distribution hitch and Tekonsha RF brake controller

3800#
tongue weight 400#
How does it work out? Is your rear end low?
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Old 07-14-2020, 01:26 PM #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GX4SEVEND View Post
Agree with everything just said. I just bought a 2021 Ibex at 3700 pounds dry. Use a WDH and brake controller. Was is S3 or S4 going over the Siskiyou pass, highest point on I-5 between Canada and Mexico, and was at 40-45 mph the whole time going up.

I’d like to run air bags but I don’t have the time or tools or garage space to install them and no one local really wants to mess with it. Possibly might swap out my dobinson springs back to my 3” Icon overland springs with a heavy weight rating.

Either way it only sags a little bit more than I’d like and tows fine, just wish it was a little more level.


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Just FYI, swapping springs is the same procedure as installing the airbags, only difference is shoving the bags inside the springs before reinstalling. Pretty much same labor.
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Old 07-14-2020, 01:37 PM #506
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Just finished a 7,149 mile 3 week road trip covering 17 states and 8 National Parks. South Florida to Yosemite and back. 4runner towed our 2,500lb Taxa Cricket like a dream. Our only modification is we swapped the ball hitch for a lock n roll a prior to delivery from our dealer (best $ upgrade!!!) Kept it in S4 almost the whole drive downshifting in mountains out West. Averaged 70 mph highway, 13.7 mpg for the trip. Also got over 300 miles off-road.
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Old 07-14-2020, 03:20 PM #507
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900lb trailer with 4800lb tractor. would not recommend. truck did ok, but compared to other vehicles I've towed with, you can tell that's not the 4runners strength.
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Old 07-14-2020, 06:26 PM #508
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Just did another ~1,000 mile trip through Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana with the little teardrop. Really have no idea how much it weighs. But the towing is not great no matter what.

I really need to move up a size. Considering a pop top aussie style camper. But even then I'm realistically looking at moving up to a bigger vehicle with more power. Not super excited about any of the options at this point. Wish the 4R could pull a bit better.

Bright side - no tour buses in Yellowstone this year! And half the campgrounds are closed so it was great! Probably go back at least one more week this summer.



Been talking with the manufacturer of this trailer about importing one from China. Price is pretty reasonable if you do the import yourself. It's sold under a variety of different brands (usually for about 2-3 times the cost of direct purchase).

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Old 07-14-2020, 09:46 PM #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpaquette View Post
imo every gasoline engine powered vehicle sucks at towing long distances, especially if there are any hills/mountains involved. I've used my 4runner to tow a flat utility trailer to pick up a bunch of furniture. I'm guessing the trailer probably weighed 2,000 pounds empty and maybe another 500-800 with the furniture on it. The 4runner performed as i expected, 5th gear useless most of the time, gas mileage in the toilet. No swaying and no problem holding my speed on the highway.
this!!^^^^
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:24 PM #510
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2015 4Runner. I tow a Sea Pro 22’ boat and dual axel trailer for 5400 lbs. No problem at all. I tow it 200 miles round trip a couple of times a year. Only modification was I added an oil cooler to it.
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