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Old 05-23-2011, 11:09 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeBe4running View Post
So far I haven't. I will keep you posted on that. I guess it will just a little due to wind drag, however not enough to sweat it. I have a scan gauge with is pretty dam accurate. So will let you know. Sweet profile pic, where do you ski?
You will also lose efficiency due to the weight difference of the racks.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:35 PM #17
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Is the "GOBI" on the wind screen a sticker that can be removed?
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:43 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
Is the "GOBI" on the wind screen a sticker that can be removed?
yes. I don't have one on mine.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:13 PM #19
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Originally Posted by adio3x View Post
yes. I don't have one on mine.
Did you take it off or ordered without?
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:19 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
Did you take it off or ordered without?
Well I ordered it from another member, I guess he didn't include it or he took it off. I plan on stickering mine up like my old yakima anyways.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:50 PM #21
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:01 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1engineer View Post
You will also lose efficiency due to the weight difference of the racks.
That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. The rack weighs 70 lbs- my groceries weigh more than that each week. Maybe a loss in mpg from the wind drag, but the weight, gimme a freakin break...
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:36 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1engineer View Post
You will also lose efficiency due to the weight difference of the racks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antman View Post
That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. The rack weighs 70 lbs- my groceries weigh more than that each week. Maybe a loss in mpg from the wind drag, but the weight, gimme a freakin break...
You shouldn't argue with him. He is an engineer.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:56 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antman View Post
That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. The rack weighs 70 lbs- my groceries weigh more than that each week. Maybe a loss in mpg from the wind drag, but the weight, gimme a freakin break...
Remove Excess Weight

"Avoid keeping unnecessary items in your vehicle, especially heavy ones. An extra 100 pounds in your vehicle could reduce your MPG by up to 2 percent. The reduction is based on the percentage of extra weight relative to the vehicle's weight and affects smaller vehicles more than larger ones."

Fuel Economy Benefit: 12%/100 lbs
Equivalent Gasoline Savings: $0.04$0.08/gallon
The above quote came directly from fueleconomy.gov and is a very simple answer.

The key thing is to differentiate the effect of weight on stop-and-go driving vs. steady-state cruising.

"In steady-state cruising on level roads and with everything else being equal (e.g., a car made of aluminum vs. an indentical car made of steel), weight doesn't have much effect on mileage. Weight slightly increases the rolling resistance of the tires and slightly increases the drag of the bearings in the wheels, but at anything but very low speeds, these are minor contributors to overall vehicle drag - the big factor is aero resistance which is not affected by weight at all.

But in stop-and-go driving, weight has a big effect on mileage because you're constantly accelerating the weight up to speed, and then wasting this energy as heat when you apply the brakes."

This is a good explanation also from a different source and I did not include any with mathmatical formulas as there is not one little "super gas milage formula of if you add X weight you will decrease your gas milage by y" and also the math, while not difficult, is very complex and cumbersome.

The best rule of thumb for weight is this: Every 100 pounds added to your vehicle will drop your gas milage 1-2%. So you can see there is a drop in efficiency for adding the rack. It is slight but these things add up quick.

Now, I don't know what I said that would have caused you to post your comment. I did not say how much efficiency will be lost, just some will be lost. Most people seem to forget about weight and efficiency but remember the aerodynamic losses. I was just reminding them is all. If you think my posts are "the most ridiculous thing I've heard" or "gimme a freakin break" then you are entitled to your opinion but I usually don't post something unless I know a little about the subject.

One more thing: In the case of the gobi rack being discussed the loss due to weight will be greater than the aerodynamic losses. Why? I'll let you do the math and figure it out as your response to my result will be much more emotional than factual.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:06 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1engineer View Post
The above quote came directly from fueleconomy.gov and is a very simple answer.
Don't trust the government!

Can't wait to see the pics of the ladder. Antman's rack is supposed to arrive today, and we'll be having an install gathering at his place this weekend.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:49 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp8ball View Post
Don't trust the government!

Can't wait to see the pics of the ladder. Antman's rack is supposed to arrive today, and we'll be having an install gathering at his place this weekend.
I usually don't trust them either. In this case though it is common knowledge for most. All things being what they are, If I needed a heavy duty rack this would be the one I would buy. They are very functional and look good too.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:59 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antman View Post
That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. The rack weighs 70 lbs- my groceries weigh more than that each week. Maybe a loss in mpg from the wind drag, but the weight, gimme a freakin break...
My rack weighs 90 pounds and I lost 1 mpg in city driving as soon as I put it on. I lost another 1 mpg when I added the tent. City driving is affected most because that extra weight affects every acceleration, most of which is done in the city. My cargo kit cost me another mpg and it can't possibly be from drag because it is in the cabin.

Not even Antman can change the laws of physics.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:42 AM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleMike View Post

Not even Antman can change the laws of physics.
I think it was called parasitic drag from my undergrad days:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)
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Old 05-24-2011, 12:06 PM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1engineer View Post
Remove Excess Weight

"Avoid keeping unnecessary items in your vehicle, especially heavy ones. An extra 100 pounds in your vehicle could reduce your MPG by up to 2 percent. The reduction is based on the percentage of extra weight relative to the vehicle's weight and affects smaller vehicles more than larger ones."

Fuel Economy Benefit: 12%/100 lbs
Equivalent Gasoline Savings: $0.04$0.08/gallon
The above quote came directly from fueleconomy.gov and is a very simple answer.

The key thing is to differentiate the effect of weight on stop-and-go driving vs. steady-state cruising.

"In steady-state cruising on level roads and with everything else being equal (e.g., a car made of aluminum vs. an indentical car made of steel), weight doesn't have much effect on mileage. Weight slightly increases the rolling resistance of the tires and slightly increases the drag of the bearings in the wheels, but at anything but very low speeds, these are minor contributors to overall vehicle drag - the big factor is aero resistance which is not affected by weight at all.

But in stop-and-go driving, weight has a big effect on mileage because you're constantly accelerating the weight up to speed, and then wasting this energy as heat when you apply the brakes."

This is a good explanation also from a different source and I did not include any with mathmatical formulas as there is not one little "super gas milage formula of if you add X weight you will decrease your gas milage by y" and also the math, while not difficult, is very complex and cumbersome.

The best rule of thumb for weight is this: Every 100 pounds added to your vehicle will drop your gas milage 1-2%. So you can see there is a drop in efficiency for adding the rack. It is slight but these things add up quick.

Now, I don't know what I said that would have caused you to post your comment. I did not say how much efficiency will be lost, just some will be lost. Most people seem to forget about weight and efficiency but remember the aerodynamic losses. I was just reminding them is all. If you think my posts are "the most ridiculous thing I've heard" or "gimme a freakin break" then you are entitled to your opinion but I usually don't post something unless I know a little about the subject.

One more thing: In the case of the Gobi rack being discussed the loss due to weight will be greater than the aerodynamic losses. Why? I'll let you do the math and figure it out as your response to my result will be much more emotional than factual.
Thank you for your long detailed response. I don't disagree, whatsoever. I just suggested that they may be a decrease in fuel economy due to wind drag without mentioning weight at all. I still have a tent to put on, axe and shovel, 60'' Inch High Lift Jack, Lights and the list goes on. I ready for a decrease in fuel economy. I'm not worried about that; (yet) till gas is $10/gallon. If I was I would drive a Prius. This is not my city cruiser, i live 4 mile up a dirt road.
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Old 05-24-2011, 12:17 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeBe4running View Post
Thank you for your long detailed response. I don't disagree, whatsoever. I just suggested that they may be a decrease in fuel economy due to wind drag without mentioning weight at all. I still have a tent to put on, axe and shovel, 60'' Inch High Lift Jack, Lights and the list goes on. I ready for a decrease in fuel economy. I'm not worried about that; (yet) till gas is $10/gallon. If I was I would drive a Prius. This is not my city cruiser, i live 4 mile up a dirt road.
No worries here! My original response was posted because you did not mention weight and I know most people forget about it and then complain about the gas milage after the mod. I was just tryin' to help.
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