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Old 10-15-2019, 03:34 PM #61
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All makes sense. I hope we don't have to wait so long for 6th Gen. as I currently have 227000 miles on my Runner. I'm not sold on the the 5th as in my opinion my 4th Gen is far lighter, quicker and just handles better than the current generation. I've driven both extensively. I just wonder if the price of gas jumps again to $5.00/6.00 dollars a gallon. Watch the sale of 4runners sink like a rock. Again, just my humble opinion.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:46 PM #62
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I'm wondering if Toyota, like many car brands, are focusing a lot of R&D and $ on electric technology. We've had the hybrids for a long time, so that gives Toyota a step up on some brands, but it appears that electric vehicles now have the infrastructure to support them as viable family autos and with the price of fuel going nuts, I see that the EV is more relevant than ever. It could be that Toyota simply doesn't have the resources or doesn't want to devote as much to these old trucks and realizes they are probably mostly on their way out anyway.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:57 PM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post

The Tundra was definitely on schedule for August 3, 2020 start of production.

As I once expected, any unforeseen delays could and would push the Tundra back, into being a 2022 model in 2021.

Why am I mentioning the Tundra? See below.

The next Tundra arrives in Q4 of 2021 (3 sources have confirmed this) as a 2022 vehicle.
Test mules already on the road but not due for 2 more years? Ouch.
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:06 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
  • Q4 2021: New 2022 Tundra
  • Calendar Year 2022: New 2023 Model Year Land Cruiser 300-Series, 2023 Lexus LX, 2023 Toyota Sequoia
  • Q1 2023 or CY 2023: 2023 1/2 or 2024MY 4Runner and/or Lexus GX, New Prado
  • CY 2024 or Early 2024 New 2024/25MY Tacoma*, New Hilux and Fortuner
tundra i dont dispute as its been stated, fall 2021 is release of new tundra as 22MY

23MY/24MY 4runner would put the current 5th gen at 14/15 yrs old which would push it to the same as age the current 2nd gen tundra at 15 yrs old.

24MY/25MY tacoma would put that gen at a young generation at 8/9 yrs old which contradicts toyota extending out a generation to 10-12 yrs old. i can see a mid cycle refresh at 21/22MY (6yrs) like they did on the 4runner at 14MY (6yrs)

the tundra is an odd ball as it has gone thru 2 mid cycle refreshes at 2013 (14MY) (8yrs) and 2017 (18MY) (10yrs)

as far as the engine, i expect it to be the 3.5 v6 from the tacoma just geared different and different engine output just like they did for the 4.0 in the tacoma and 4runner (see 2012 tacoma 4.0 v6 vs 2014 4runner 4.0 v6)

but who knows what toyota is doing since they pretty much can keep a secret better than most on internals compared to most oem's.

best bet is to watch for announcements during the feb car show which i think is the chicago car show. that is when toyota lately has been announcing new generations compared to the old days when they announced them during jan car show
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:51 AM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drama1 View Post
Man, if I have to wait until 2022, I'm in something else. I love my 4th Gen, but it has 225000 on it, think I'm starting to have coolant in the engine routine. I'll get it fixed as I absolutely do not like the lack of power in the 5th Gen. Rented one for a week last year, could not get over the difference in torque between the 4th and 5th. Tried another day with a 5th Gen SR5 last week thinking I might trade mine in. Nope. The way people drive around Chicago, you better have some get up and go or you're gonna get you ass-end hit. I might be able to wait for the 2021 6th Gen, but if it's another year I'll regretfully move to Jeep.


Jeep? Really? Youíd trade off reliability, resale value, and longevity just because you donít want to address a lack of power compared to the 4th gen? It seems like a bad idea...


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Old 10-18-2019, 07:17 PM #66
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My biggest concern with the 6th gen is where it will be built. Since most of the 4Runners are sold in North America, wouldn't it make sense to move assembly to the US or Mexico when they switch to the new platform?
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:38 PM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decipher View Post
Jeep? Really? Youíd trade off reliability, resale value, and longevity just because you donít want to address a lack of power compared to the 4th gen? It seems like a bad idea...


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No arguing here regarding reliability, but unfortunately if you're referring to a Wrangler, there's nothing on the road with a better resale value.

Jeep Wrangler tops list for high resale value | Las Vegas Review-Journal
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:23 AM #68
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I've always thought Wranglers were at or near the top, but all that article does is tell you who's #1, and it doesn't say by how much.

It says the Wrangler Unlimited has a resale value of 70.1% at 36 months and 58.1% at 60 months. If the grouping is tight enough, then in theory the T4R could be 11th on the list but still have resale values of 69.1% & 57.1% and not even make the top 10.
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:49 AM #69
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This is just my opinion on resale value. I have been driving Toyotaís for years. When I traded my 15 Tacoma sport in on my 17 4runner Pro I got almost what I paid for my Tacoma. Iím trading my 17 Pro in on 2020 Army green Pro and Iím getting almost what I paid for on my 4runner Pro. And yes both vehicles have a little over 12,000 miles on them. The only way Iím not trading my Pro in if I donít like the army green in person. If I compare the highest Jeep Wrangler on Kelly blue book to my Pro the value on the Pro is so much higher.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:05 AM #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
A new Tundra should've been out 2-3 years ago, with a new 4Runner debuting this year or last year. Not the way things are going.

As usual a number of powerful people within Toyota have been cynical about how they approach the US market in regards to trucks and didn't commit to starting the program a decade ago like they should have.

Now they are playing catch-up and having to delay things, but didn't give themselves enough time in the first place, so shit is running behind and leaving customers wondering.

For all the folks who keep stating, "if ain't broke, don't fix it" or "I'm glad they aren't redesigning soon, I just bought my...", you better realize your personal insecurities over driving a dated model or self-absorbed luddite desires have never dictated how Toyota operated in the past nor are they relevant in the present.

Completely agree with most of your post, though I'm less well-versed on how quickly Toyota can move production lines and ramp up their production scale on TNGA.

The 4runner is a fantastic vehicle for the market segment it's targeting. Rather than doing away with the vehicle, I am glad Toyota continues to produce it and sales are strong. That being said, to keep things fresh, Toyota keeps adding special option packages to keep interest.

When Toyota was making TSS standard on their lineup, 4runner was one of the last ones to get it. If I'm not mistaken, the 86 and 4runner were the only ones excluded from MY17/18 when it became standard.

The interior... the head unit... is extremely dated and a testament to the power of plastic molds. The Land Cruiser is a very capable vehicle as well (granted it's twice the price), and the interior does not look quite so dated.

I've heard other people here make the argument that they'd rather the vehicle be reliable as all these creature comforts have a habit of breaking... Well, I sort of get that angle, but it's a bit of a cop-out IMHO.

It's gotten to the point where it seems like Toyota is not even trying to re-engineer and improve the vehicle much anymore besides changing a few styles here and there. It's a real shame. Toyota has even been late to the party (across all models) for integrating Android Auto and Apple Carplay. IDK if it's a combination of a licensing and pride thing or what. But, it's what one of those things where many cars in 2020 have 6-8" displays by default. Not all have Nav b/c that's generally an upgrade (even on Lexus). So, why not let people at least use their Andoid/Apple phones that are continually getting better/faster and constantly downloading revised nav software from Google/Apple? It's a total money grab by Toyota, but Acura, and other brands do the same thing so not singling out Toyota here.

But, sales keep increasing year to year so maybe there is no incentive for Toyota to rock the ship? That being said, if sales declined in hopes for a new generation, Toyota could use that as an excuse to slash the model altogether.

Last edited by Hawk_; 10-20-2019 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:20 PM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk_ View Post
Completely agree with most of your post, though I'm less well-versed on how quickly Toyota can move production lines and ramp up their production scale on TNGA.

The 4runner is a fantastic vehicle for the market segment it's targeting. Rather than doing away with the vehicle, I am glad Toyota continues to produce it and sales are strong. That being said, to keep things fresh, Toyota keeps adding special option packages to keep interest.

When Toyota was making TSS standard on their lineup, 4runner was one of the last ones to get it. If I'm not mistaken, the 86 and 4runner were the only ones excluded from MY17/18 when it became standard.

The interior... the head unit... is extremely dated and a testament to the power of plastic molds. The Land Cruiser is a very capable vehicle as well (granted it's twice the price), and the interior does not look quite so dated.

I've heard other people here make the argument that they'd rather the vehicle be reliable as all these creature comforts have a habit of breaking... Well, I sort of get that angle, but it's a bit of a cop-out IMHO.

It's gotten to the point where it seems like Toyota is not even trying to re-engineer and improve the vehicle much anymore besides changing a few styles here and there. It's a real shame. Toyota has even been late to the party (across all models) for integrating Android Auto and Apple Carplay. IDK if it's a combination of a licensing and pride thing or what. But, it's what one of those things where many cars in 2020 have 6-8" displays by default. Not all have Nav b/c that's generally an upgrade (even on Lexus). So, why not let people at least use their Andoid/Apple phones that are continually getting better/faster and constantly downloading revised nav software from Google/Apple? It's a total money grab by Toyota, but Acura, and other brands do the same thing so not singling out Toyota here.

But, sales keep increasing year to year so maybe there is no incentive for Toyota to rock the ship? That being said, if sales declined in hopes for a new generation, Toyota could use that as an excuse to slash the model altogether.


Iím not sure why people think Toyota is making so much money off the 4Runner. When you take all the costs involved in producing a vehicle, from design, assembly changes each year, marketing, recalls, etc. I donít think they sell enough of them to make that much. And a full redesign on the new platform, and most likely moving production to Mexico or Texas, would take multiple years of strong sales to pay for. My guess? They are making the minimal changes each year because they havenít decided if itís worth it to keep making it.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:52 PM #72
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why would they move production to the states when its the same platform as the Prado and GX which are both built in Japan?
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:52 PM #73
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why would they move production to the states when its the same platform as the Prado and GX which are both built in Japan?


Not now. When they move to the new platform. Whenever that is. The 4Runner is only sold in North America, so why wouldnít they consolidate it with the Taco and Tundra assembly?
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:30 PM #74
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isn't the Prado and GX going to be on the same platform the T4R is built on?
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:04 PM #75
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isn't the Prado and GX going to be on the same platform the T4R is built on?


They are also sold in other countries, where the 4Runner isnít. I hope Iím wrong. I think being built in Japan is a huge plus. I just donít see anyone else suggesting this might happen, and to me it just makes sense and is the direction all manufacturers are going. Build where itís sold.
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