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Old 05-20-2020, 07:58 PM #91
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Well I don't agree with some of your points because history has proven that if something works you don't have to make it something that everyone wants to sale well. Just make it more of the thing that people love and offer another vehicle in your brand that people will like when it doesn't have your modern current features. The 911, wrangler and 4 runner is a perfect example. The 911 basic design has not changed much at all and will not change. It has only improved in areas that now make it the sport car that all sport cars are measured against. My 1st 911 would look at home next to the 2020 911 turbo S. My 1st 4 runner (96 3rd gen) looks good next to my 2018 Trd pro and it is 25 years old. The 4 runner is a true SUV and the basic body style and features are easily identified by almost any offroad enthusiast almost as much as the Wrangler. The germans got the 911 right out the box and other than modern features it will stay what we know as the 911 even when it goes hybrid. The Japanese got the 4 runner right back when my dad purchase the very first 1st gen. In 2022 it will improve with a hybrid platform. It will get better mpg but not as high as the highlander. It will perform similar to all 4 runner, not terribly slow but not as quick as a rav 4 or highlander. It will be comfortable but not like the GX or LX. It will have mid level amenities but not as many as the highlander. But if you are wanting an adventure vehicle that can get you into places that most vehicles can't possibly go and do it with the dog out the back window then the 2022 4 runner will be for you. Otherwise maybe the highlander is the pretty full of amenities great car like ride and ok offroad performance vehicle that some of you will want. One thing is for sure Toyota will not screw up the 4 runner (other than the limited edition and who wants that) or Landcrusier with tons of unnecessary pretty modern tech gadgets in order to please a few buyers. They will continue to keep it more basic than their crossover SUVs. After all, that simple rugged go anywhere last for years bad ass 4wd is what they have sold it to be for over 30 years and like the Germans they won't screw up this vehicle.
The 992 is a rocketship full of computers compared to the first 911.
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Old 07-20-2020, 08:42 AM #92
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So at this point is the smart money on the 4Runner re-design being 2022 but as a 2023 model?

I feel like if it were one year out there would be more leaks at this point. As well as the fact that the 2020 4Runner received a lot of upgrades. I'm close to buying a 2020 4Runner so this might be me mostly hoping it does not come out 1 year after I buy one lol.
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Old 07-21-2020, 07:09 AM #93
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So at this point is the smart money on the 4Runner re-design being 2022 but as a 2023 model?

I feel like if it were one year out there would be more leaks at this point. As well as the fact that the 2020 4Runner received a lot of upgrades. I'm close to buying a 2020 4Runner so this might be me mostly hoping it does not come out 1 year after I buy one lol.
I reluctantly reserved a new Bronco cause Im tired of waiting on a new T4R to be announced. Going from unicorn 4th gen to the Bronco. Was never sold on the 5th gen.
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Old 07-21-2020, 09:15 PM #94
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I reluctantly reserved a new Bronco cause Im tired of waiting on a new T4R to be announced. Going from unicorn 4th gen to the Bronco. Was never sold on the 5th gen.
It is now your responsibility to follow through so we have true ownership feedback in a couple of years haha!
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:51 AM #95
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I reluctantly reserved a new Bronco cause Im tired of waiting on a new T4R to be announced. Going from unicorn 4th gen to the Bronco. Was never sold on the 5th gen.
Enjoy! It will be hard to come back unless Toyota hits it out of the park with their 22/23 models. I drove the recent trucks and Toyota was the worst driving and the most dated. I was pretty shocked at how dated it felt. On top of that, it is no cheaper. They really need to up their game with the SUVs and truck. I simply can't pay that kind of cash for such a dated vehicle that looks like 2010 all over again. Okay, so not that 2020 is a great year...
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Old 07-30-2020, 01:00 PM #96
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Enjoy! It will be hard to come back unless Toyota hits it out of the park with their 22/23 models. I drove the recent trucks and Toyota was the worst driving and the most dated. I was pretty shocked at how dated it felt. On top of that, it is no cheaper. They really need to up their game with the SUVs and truck. I simply can't pay that kind of cash for such a dated vehicle that looks like 2010 all over again. Okay, so not that 2020 is a great year...
It's unfortunate we have to choose between - for example our last GMC HD2500 that had a front diff sieze at 15k miles, transfer case at 40k miles, Allison automatic spit gears out at 80k miles, a crank position sensor failed (that GM put in the ****ing bell housing...). This list is much longer - that's just the highlights from the first 100k. Or what? A way over-due Tundra? I'd probably still buy the Tundra. Spending a few unplanned in rural Arizona when the transfer case blew up while waiting for replacement is more not fun than driving an out dated Tundra.

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Old 07-30-2020, 01:24 PM #97
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[/LIST]
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Hey have you see how much torque a Tesla can put out
No not really interested I have yet to see a charging station out on a trail. I have seen what they look like when they catch on fire and the fire department tries to put them out.
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Old 07-30-2020, 02:12 PM #98
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Plenty of cracked Tundra frames around. See those? No? Google. My buddy's 2014 4Runner- transmission related at 5,000 miles. Nobody is immune. I am sure my Jeep and GMC will have some issues but pretty good so far. No major shop visits. Yeah, I'm not spending 60K on a high-end truck and buying basically a 2010. Feel free to. I get your point but my (albeit limited) experiences with GMC and Chrysler have been good enough to buy one or two (soon) of their trucks. Toyota has to get up to at least 2019 to get my money anymore.

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It's unfortunate we have to choose between - for example our last GMC HD2500 that had a front diff sieze at 15k miles, transfer case at 40k miles, Allison automatic spit gears out at 80k miles, a crank position sensor failed (that GM put in the ****ing bell housing...). This list is much longer - that's just the highlights from the first 100k. Or what? A way over-due Tundra? I'd probably still buy the Tundra. Spending a few unplanned in rural Arizona when the transfer case blew up while waiting for replacement is more not fun than driving an out dated Tundra.
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Old 07-30-2020, 02:54 PM #99
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Plenty of cracked Tundra frames around. See those? No? Google. My buddy's 2014 4Runner- transmission related at 5,000 miles. Nobody is immune. I am sure my Jeep and GMC will have some issues but pretty good so far. No major shop visits. Yeah, I'm not spending 60K on a high-end truck and buying basically a 2010. Feel free to. I get your point but my (albeit limited) experiences with GMC and Chrysler have been good enough to buy one or two (soon) of their trucks. Toyota has to get up to at least 2019 to get my money anymore.
No one is immune. But all of that was on the SAME one truck. In the case of the front diff - it had never had oil in it ever. So it was shipped from GM with no gear oil. That's the sort of quality control problem that plagues GM. And poor engineering. A crank position sensor inside the bell housing? There's no reason that should ever exist. And if it does, it should at least be accessible from the bottom, not the top. It requires removing the cab to access in the FSM. Not once have I ever seen any Toyota product with that type of shortcut in engineering. Toyota's BOF are way out of date. I'm fully in agreement with that. But they were properly engineered to begin with.


Fortunately there's data kept and we really don't have to argue.








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Old 07-30-2020, 03:02 PM #100
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No need to argue. I was not implying that you were lying. Actually, the data does not seem significantly different at a quick glance. I am quite sure the incidence of problems and issues are in fact higher with domestic trucks but my experience has been good. My Duramax diesel has been 100% reliable even though it is a torque monster and a diesel. Fingers crossed. I'd maybe go back to gas if it were powerful enough and a really updated Tundra, since it is unlikely I'll pull anything over 5,000 lbs or so. Just not the current Tundra is all.
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Old 07-30-2020, 03:17 PM #101
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The data shows your about twice as likely to have engine, transmission, and power-train issues with a GMC Sierra as compared to a Tundra. Is it worth that extra failure rate to have updated features? Probably depends a lot on what you're doing with it.

GM is doing a lot better than some others BTW>



The biggest issue I have with the Tundra is just the mpg. It's not good enough to be competitive anymore. The interiors are okay. Dated for sure, but generally use higher quality materials, fabrics, etc. Typically the stitching isn't falling apart by 100k on the seats. The steering wheel is in front of the driver's seat. But 14-15mpg isn't good enough anymore. I keep seeing predictions of 30mpg for the new one, but I'm skeptical of that. If they get 22 or 23mpg with the hybrid torque curve - I think it'll be pretty popular.

If Toyota does a Tundra prime with double the Rav's system - the'll sell boat loads of them. The simple double formula would just be 5L NA v8, 40 miles EV range, 604hp, 1000 ft'lbs torque. Price it at $70k and they'd never be able to keep them in stock.

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Old 07-30-2020, 03:38 PM #102
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If major issues, that is probably a lot but if the Tundra NUMBER of issues is very low then it is not a lot. It is something to consider with some deeper analysis. I just could not spend that kind of money for such old and dated tech and engine/transmission/MPG. That is exactly why I bought the Duramax Denali. If I had never driven one, the Tundra may have been it. Let's see what Toyota does with its 2022 Tundra and I'll decide if I should trade or not.

This Duramax is my first diesel I bought and it is so quiet inside and so powerful and comfy that I may be hooked. Oh, the cooled seat are amazing but the torque is insane. Dragging a travel trailer up the steep mountain passes is nothing, even though I like to keep it at recommended (65 MPH) speeds.
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Old 07-30-2020, 04:40 PM #103
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If major issues, that is probably a lot but if the Tundra NUMBER of issues is very low then it is not a lot. It is something to consider with some deeper analysis. I just could not spend that kind of money for such old and dated tech and engine/transmission/MPG. That is exactly why I bought the Duramax Denali. If I had never driven one, the Tundra may have been it. Let's see what Toyota does with its 2022 Tundra and I'll decide if I should trade or not.

This Duramax is my first diesel I bought and it is so quiet inside and so powerful and comfy that I may be hooked. Oh, the cooled seat are amazing but the torque is insane. Dragging a travel trailer up the steep mountain passes is nothing, even though I like to keep it at recommended (65 MPH) speeds.
The data is from a major auction system for used cars and they collect data on the repairs necessary to the auction vehicles before selling. I like it better than any other source I know of because it's objective and has millions of data points. I think for example it had about 60,000 F150s and 10,000 Tundras. It's not all cars, but enough to get a representative sample.

Driving my Sierra was great. Comfortable. Quiet. Pulled like a train. In fact it pulled better than a GMC 5500 we had at the same time. But it didn't stop a trailer nearly as well. I don't know how safe it is when I see people pulling 20,000lb trailers. The 5500 has a lot bigger brakes. Incidentally - the 5th gen 4runner actually has bigger brakes too. So I'm not sure that's saying a whole lot.

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Old 09-13-2020, 08:39 PM #104
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I think having a new 6th gen following the styling of the new RAV4 is what Toyota will do and Iíll be really happy with that. I think the new Rav looks rugged and mean and will drool seeing a pro version 4Runner in that skin. I personally would like to see a SFA, shorter wheel base and a rear mounted spare. Iíll get on board with a hybrid version if it still gives us loads of low end torque and mid 20ís for MPG while keeping the current pricing tree.
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:01 PM #105
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That's a tough question.
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