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Old 09-20-2020, 12:40 PM #106
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I would like to see the present engine get a dial with different driving modes and an ETC button. A good throttle controller makes the 5th gen feel like it has a new engine, why not give us this kind of capability built in from the factory? I had two vehicles with 8 speed transmissions and hated it. I specifically went to a new 4Runner to get away from that stuff. A 6 spd would be ok. Also, Iím not interested in buying the first year or two after release of a new and unproven engine.
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Old 09-21-2020, 12:11 PM #107
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No one is immune. But all of that was on the SAME one truck. In the case of the front diff - it had never had oil in it ever. So it was shipped from GM with no gear oil. That's the sort of quality control problem that plagues GM. And poor engineering. A crank position sensor inside the bell housing? There's no reason that should ever exist. And if it does, it should at least be accessible from the bottom, not the top. It requires removing the cab to access in the FSM. Not once have I ever seen any Toyota product with that type of shortcut in engineering. Toyota's BOF are way out of date. I'm fully in agreement with that. But they were properly engineered to begin with.
I guess you've never had a starter go out on a 4.7 V8? Step 1: Remove intake manifold.....

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Old 09-21-2020, 03:24 PM #108
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I guess you've never had a starter go out on a 4.7 V8? Step 1: Remove intake manifold.....

It's not ideal for sure - but it may actually be easier than some engine mounted starters that are very hard to access. Taking off the intake manifold on my 3.4 was about 45 minutes. Not fast- but actually pretty easy to do. Also GM already does that - or at least some GM v8's are done that way. At least on the Toyota version you're not also opening up cooling passages so you don't have to drain the coolant system first - and inevitably pour some coolant down the intake ports.


I don't think it really compares to some GM stuff though. Imagine that starter being inside the bell housing on top of the rear of the engine. For example GM's new I6 diesel. It has a belt driven oil pump that requires replacements at 150k. Okay - timing belts are easy enough. But wait - it's ON THE BACK OF THE ENGINE! And it cannot be removed without at a minimum removing the flex plate to fit the belt around the drive teeth on the crank shaft output. So you either get to remove the engine up through the hood - or more likely remove the transmission/transfer case at 150k on every one of them. Why would GM ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that?



What is that going to cost? $2500 for a belt replacement at 150k miles?

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Old 09-21-2020, 04:17 PM #109
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Why would GM ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that?
B/c GM knows their vehicles wind up in junkyards long before they ever reach 150k miles.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:18 PM #110
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B/c GM knows their vehicles wind up in junkyards long before they ever reach 150k miles.
It's disappointing. I really want that new I6 duramax to be great. The idea is just what I'd want in a mid size SUV. the little 180hp 4cyl turbo diesels are not enough for a 4Runner size SUV in the USA. But an I6 with 280hp diesel - that would be the goldilocks engine. And probably exceed 30mpg in a 4Runner size SUV. And GM started with a clean slate design. There's just no reason for it. A simple gear drive pump could work great. Or a shaft drive pump with a belt that you can access from a side panel? Or any of the traditional oil pump options. Even an electric one would be better.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:32 PM #111
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But an I6 with 280hp diesel - that would be the goldilocks engine. And probably exceed 30mpg in a 4Runner size SUV.
My TDI Touareg got mid to high 20s around town and in the 30s on long interstate trips. I really miss that engine.
The 4Runner has been quite a downgrade.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:21 AM #112
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My TDI Touareg got mid to high 20s around town and in the 30s on long interstate trips. I really miss that engine.
The 4Runner has been quite a downgrade.
I really like the TDI Touregs. I wanted to move into a 3.0TDI Q5 from my S4, but there wasn't enough space in the backseat. The older gen Q7 TDI is just okay, but can look good with an aggressive wheel offset and all-terrains. The 3.0TDI is one of the more reliable VAG engines of recent history.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:41 AM #113
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I'm also waiting/ready for the new Bronco...
Going to park it right next to it's great grand father.

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Old 09-25-2020, 12:01 PM #114
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It's not ideal for sure - but it may actually be easier than some engine mounted starters that are very hard to access. Taking off the intake manifold on my 3.4 was about 45 minutes. Not fast- but actually pretty easy to do. Also GM already does that - or at least some GM v8's are done that way. At least on the Toyota version you're not also opening up cooling passages so you don't have to drain the coolant system first - and inevitably pour some coolant down the intake ports.


I don't think it really compares to some GM stuff though. Imagine that starter being inside the bell housing on top of the rear of the engine. For example GM's new I6 diesel. It has a belt driven oil pump that requires replacements at 150k. Okay - timing belts are easy enough. But wait - it's ON THE BACK OF THE ENGINE! And it cannot be removed without at a minimum removing the flex plate to fit the belt around the drive teeth on the crank shaft output. So you either get to remove the engine up through the hood - or more likely remove the transmission/transfer case at 150k on every one of them. Why would GM ever do that? Why would anyone ever do that?



What is that going to cost? $2500 for a belt replacement at 150k miles?

I cannot imagine the justification they used in the engineering design reviews to sell this crap-tastic "feature". That's assuming GM still even has design reviews.

One stone gets stuck between the belt and the pulley that are down low and boom new engine time.

2 gears and a shaft or even a chain and 2 gears inside the sump ... wtf is wrong with doing it like that?
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:35 PM #115
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I cannot imagine the justification they used in the engineering design reviews to sell this crap-tastic "feature". That's assuming GM still even has design reviews.

One stone gets stuck between the belt and the pulley that are down low and boom new engine time.

2 gears and a shaft or even a chain and 2 gears inside the sump ... wtf is wrong with doing it like that?
I think that the assembly is fully enclosed in the oil pan or the bell housing. So probably not prone to a rock - but definitely going to be washed in dirt/mud that gets in there. . But yeah - the choice to directly drive it off the crank shaft means that you have no choice but to separate the transmission to remove the belt or install a new one. That sucks. Even a belt drive off a secondary gear on the side would have made it replaceable without a ton of effort.

The choice to put on the rear I think has to do with vibration dampening. The closer it is to the flywheel the less effect it has on causing vibrations due to flex in the crank shaft. I'd guess it's a very very minor difference if it's measurable at all. But that's my best guess on why you might do that. I can't think of any other reason why you'd even try to make one fit on the back instead of the front.
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Old 09-27-2020, 04:44 PM #116
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Don't be surprised if Toyota brings a Hybrid and/or EV for the new 4Runner.
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Old Yesterday, 12:43 PM #117
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Don't be surprised if Toyota brings a Hybrid and/or EV for the new 4Runner.
Bring it.
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