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Old 07-20-2020, 11:20 AM #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stirfry View Post
The probability is based on variables such as design and testing. Higher center gravity will result in a top-heavy vehicle. But you make it like "well the other vehicles have a high center of gravity too", but not every one of them is having them same issue after going through the same test.

And the comparison is apples to apples with vehicles of the same class:

10 Trucks and SUVs With the Highest Risk of Tipping Over

You fail to realize that a solution exists. And that is for Toyota to not ask Americans to work on their design team and leave it to Japanese only. You might actually get a far better 6th generation that doesn't roll over.
What vehicle do you see on the list that is comparable functionally to the 4Runner with a meaningfully lower roll over risk?

What is the solution? And how is it implemented in the vehicle you identify as comparable to the 4Runner functionally?

Do you not believe in empirical evidence? - why aren't people rolling 4Runners at a rate higher than other vehicles in the real world? Or do you not believe that to be accurate? If you do think that real world roll overs are more common in 4Runners - what is your basis for that belief?

Last edited by Jetboy; 07-20-2020 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 07-20-2020, 05:38 PM #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stirfry View Post
I am referring to the design phase. Continous designs have had this issue, so they need to eliminate it for the 6th generation.
So, what I understand is you'd like to make this a FWD unibody which sits about 3-4" closer to the ground, mitigating rollover potential.

I'm pretty sure Toyota has that, it's call a Highlander and CR-V. On a small chassis body on frame (small compared to full size pickups) your rollover potential will almost always be higher. It's simple physics. The only real way to reduce rollover without some crazy suspension and magic on the current 4Runner (assuming new will be similar) would be to widen it out a bunch - what good will that do for running trails?

If you don't like it there are plenty of other vehicles out there. Without diving into the details, the 4Runner has a lower rollover likehood than a Jeep Wrangler - yet you don't see that being a big issue for them
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:24 PM #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundy View Post
So, what I understand is you'd like to make this a FWD unibody which sits about 3-4" closer to the ground, mitigating rollover potential.

I'm pretty sure Toyota has that, it's call a Highlander and CR-V. On a small chassis body on frame (small compared to full size pickups) your rollover potential will almost always be higher. It's simple physics. The only real way to reduce rollover without some crazy suspension and magic on the current 4Runner (assuming new will be similar) would be to widen it out a bunch - what good will that do for running trails?

If you don't like it there are plenty of other vehicles out there. Without diving into the details, the 4Runner has a lower rollover likehood than a Jeep Wrangler - yet you don't see that being a big issue for them

I don't want it to be FWD at all. CR-V is Honda not Toyota as they are two different companies. Widening just a little wouldn't affect trail performance unless it is widened like the Navigator.

I never said I like the Wrangler. I already mentioned American vehicles are mostly junk and not built around which is what Japan is all about.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:36 PM #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
What vehicle do you see on the list that is comparable functionally to the 4Runner with a meaningfully lower roll over risk?

What is the solution? And how is it implemented in the vehicle you identify as comparable to the 4Runner functionally?

Do you not believe in empirical evidence? - why aren't people rolling 4Runners at a rate higher than other vehicles in the real world? Or do you not believe that to be accurate? If you do think that real world roll overs are more common in 4Runners - what is your basis for that belief?
If we went only by empirical evidence, then the Ford Pinto would still around today. But it was banned as it deserved to be.

You still didn't answer why others didn't make the list.
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Old 07-21-2020, 05:51 AM #80
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Originally Posted by stirfry View Post
Toyota needs to address its ROLLOVER issue of the 4 Runner for the 6th generation. It is truly shocking that the 4Runner has a 24% chance of rolling or tipping over according to NHTSA. The engineers and corporate should be kicked and beaten up for not ever fixing this issue.

Usually Japanese care more about safety than Americans and it seems some methhead Americans might have infected the company and prevented them from fixing this issue. Japan is supposed to be synonymous with safety, unlike the USA. And continue to manufacture it ONLY in Japan.

Secondly, it needs to be just a little aerodynamic. While it isn't a sports car, nor should it be, it can afford to have some acceleration so it can help with agility when taking evasive action.

Also, they should keep the TRD badging or apply it to all vehicles to make it rugged. NEVER allow yellow color, only ghetto trash like yellow on an SUV. Keep masculine colors.

They should also reduce the configurations from 10 to like 3 at most. Standard, Offroad, TRD. Very simple.
The Highlander and RAV4 meet your needs better than the 4R in those regards. Toyota could benefit from more colors like yellow, orange, bright blues similar to the Wrangler.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:24 AM #81
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Originally Posted by Deuxdiesel View Post
The Highlander and RAV4 meet your needs better than the 4R in those regards. Toyota could benefit from more colors like yellow, orange, bright blues similar to the Wrangler.
You clearly have some down syndrome based on your color choices. Looks like the Chevy Suburban would meet your need dummy.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:47 AM #82
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Based on Toyota's 2018 TNGA powertrain chart and logical progression in the lineup, the likely engine lineup for the 6th gen 4R is a base turbocharged 4 cylinder with ~300hp/320lb-ft of torque and a POSSIBLE option of the V35A-FTS 416hp/442lb-ft TT V6. Not sure how the hybrid will shake out.

The idea of a base turbo 4 cylinder seems to be materializing:

Toyota Alabama Steps Closer to Increased Engine Production - Toyota USA Newsroom

"Milestones include the start of production for the all-new, redesigned 4-cylinder engine, and the closing in of the plant’s new 150,000 square foot V6 engine assembly line. "
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:56 AM #83
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Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
Based on Toyota's 2018 TNGA powertrain chart and logical progression in the lineup, the likely engine lineup for the 6th gen 4R is a base turbocharged 4 cylinder with ~300hp/320lb-ft of torque
Works for me, especially if weight does not increase. That's a big torque bump and the Turbo will help with Altitude power loss.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:54 PM #84
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So with that engine plant announcement, could that mean 4R production could move stateside? Or just that a new 4cyl is coming for vehicles built here and in japan?
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Old 07-22-2020, 12:34 AM #85
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So with that engine plant announcement, could that mean 4R production could move stateside? Or just that a new 4cyl is coming for vehicles built here and in japan?
Hopefully it stays in Japan cause if they bring it to the USA then the quality might fall down.
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Old 07-22-2020, 12:36 AM #86
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Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
Based on Toyota's 2018 TNGA powertrain chart and logical progression in the lineup, the likely engine lineup for the 6th gen 4R is a base turbocharged 4 cylinder with ~300hp/320lb-ft of torque and a POSSIBLE option of the V35A-FTS 416hp/442lb-ft TT V6. Not sure how the hybrid will shake out.

The idea of a base turbo 4 cylinder seems to be materializing:

Toyota Alabama Steps Closer to Increased Engine Production - Toyota USA Newsroom

"Milestones include the start of production for the all-new, redesigned 4-cylinder engine, and the closing in of the plant’s new 150,000 square foot V6 engine assembly line. "
If they are closing the V6 Engine assembly, then why would or even how could they build V35A-FTS 416hp/442lb-ft TT V6?
Unless they will move that production elsewhere.
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:34 AM #87
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Originally Posted by stirfry View Post
If they are closing the V6 Engine assembly, then why would or even how could they build V35A-FTS 416hp/442lb-ft TT V6?

Unless they will move that production elsewhere.
Look at Toyota and Lexus, how many cars/trucks have over 400hp, answer, not many and those are big $. The tundra and land cruiser only have 381hp. So 416hp is a pipe dream. Everyone should be happy if hp and torque are over 300 respectively.

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Old 07-22-2020, 09:04 AM #88
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A new turbocharged 4 cylinder is replacing the GR V6 for many of Toyota's core midsize offerings. The V35A would be sourced from Japan if it was even to be an option, which I think it might. That part is up in the air though.
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Old 07-22-2020, 11:06 AM #89
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Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
A new turbocharged 4 cylinder is replacing the GR V6 for many of Toyota's core midsize offerings. The V35A would be sourced from Japan if it was even to be an option, which I think it might. That part is up in the air though.
Hopefully the 2.7 Bronco and Hemi Wrangler will spur them to offer a higher power option.
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Old 07-22-2020, 01:04 PM #90
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If we went only by empirical evidence, then the Ford Pinto would still around today. But it was banned as it deserved to be.

You still didn't answer why others didn't make the list.
Sorry for the fact check, but it's important we do not exaggerate or alter history and facts.

For the record, the Pinto was not "banned". This was the media skewing the truth. The Pinto platform continued for a decade in several forms. It was a dated design and died naturally in 1980. However, it has become the defacto joke about a car exploding. Which is just humor but not reality.

The 1970-71 Pinto had a remote chance of rupturing a fuel tank. Fuel tanks do not magically explode, the usually just leak and a heat source (extremely hot brakes or exhaust) might create a fire.

GM had a much bigger problem that changed the design and testing of vehicles. This effect 10 million vehicle over decades.
History of the GM Side Saddle Gas Tank Defect - The Center for Auto Safety

This is NBC take on it. Note they lied.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtpMzGN9uWc&feature=youtu.be

As for rollovers. The 4runner is not a sports car and you shouldn't expect it to be. As with the pinto it's a media thing, SUVs don't magically roll over. I don't personally know anyone that has rolled a 4Runner on the street. However, my brother did roll his Pinto. . . sorry it didn't explode.
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