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Old 03-30-2023, 08:20 AM #676
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Originally Posted by nimby View Post
If I'm not mistaken, this 6th gen timeline that you mention above has been established for a while now and hasn't been moved because of the Land Cruiser being delayed.

Originally, yes, the 6th gen was thought to come out in early 2024 so its timeline has moved but not because of the Land Cruiser.......as far as I'm aware.
Thank you for the clarification, I must have misinterpreted the previous "Spring 2024" as when customer deliveries would start. I was trying to break out the three key milestones of Reveal, Start of Production and First Delivers with time brackets for each (knowing schedule slips can still happen) in order to help bring clarity to the process.
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Old 03-30-2023, 06:44 PM #677
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If the launch of the LC in North America is being delayed until the spring of 2024 it would put it pretty close to the reveal of the 2025 4Runner. If I were Toyota I would want a full year of the LC being out before the 6th gen 4Runner is revealed. A decade plus of pent up anticipation could get a lot of people to splurge early on a LC that is $15,000+ more. If the consumers are given the choice of both vehicles at relatively the same time it could diminish the LC sales.
2026 4Runner?
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Old 04-03-2023, 01:29 AM #678
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I owe it to the members of this forum, to declare I have indeed been tricked by some people at Toyota Motor North America and at least 1 of their Tier 1 suppliers, over the last 4+ months regarding the 2024 Toyota Tacoma "debuting" on Tuesday, April 4, 2023.

I don't believe that the V6 carries over nor the fact on Tacoma World, that now-deleted Tier 1 supplier poster (DJinTN) possibly told me false information, on how the 2.7L I4 would continue for 2 years. Then he disappeared into thin air...(sighs)

Refused to answer any further questions regarding 2GR in private, cutting me off and then vanished before I respond in kind. He's not the only one...

Also, I admit that I might have overreacted to a post in this forum a few pages back, my previous one. The core points I intended to make, I still stand behind them. I was quite livid at the implication I am lying about the future of the 4Runner and making shit up. I've thankfully seen the proof otherwise. They've delayed it multiple times internally, but are still committed to the nameplate and Land Cruiser too.

Unlike my bad powertrain info, 4Runner info doesn't appear to be shared in bad faith, like with powertrain info on the Tacoma. Something very embarrassing to face, considering the hard time I give David Chao at Automotive Press. I didn't see it coming, seeing as I took a very conservative approach prior to December 2022 on discussing all insight, especially powertrain details.

Now, although my other Tier 1 source has done his best to keep me informed on the 4Runner, I am not sure I trust his (good faith) insight on the production shift to Mexico for the 2025 4Runner.

Source doesn't even have the program codes. They get the 610L(2) substitute, while ironically DJinTN might've even leaked the 4Runner code as 930B. It doesn't make sense at all, as "DJ" had been pretty reliable too and is why I trusted him as an additional source. Very concrete and straight to the point, no filler.

Toyota did idealize expansion of TMMGT production volume to 300,000 units by 2025 (1, 2), but that was envisioned years ago. They are 15 months out from Job 1 and I don't see any sufficient evidence, to support his intel on some shift to Mexico. It's cutting very close at 15 months, zero announcement.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I feel the main Tier 1 supplier source dances away from answering those MX vs JPN questions nowadays or maybe I am too 2nd-hand embarrassed to ask him, on the belief it was bad info.

Per example, I'll refer to how early Toyota usually reveals their production location changes.


Back in 2016-17, I learned about Toyota wanting to build the Lexus NX in Canada by the next generation (current model). The 1st generation model was approaching midcycle and as usual, I then turn my focus to next gen plans.

I was worried I might be providing bad info in being too early, but then Toyota shockingly announced this to be fact here, in April 2019. As a young engineer rising up the ranks and settling in a new job, for the first time stateside, I was shocked that the information I secretly discovered years earlier was correct from outside of Toyota official channels.

No one at Toyota confirmed that for me in 2016-17, as my discovery was reminiscent of some of the sleuthing I see from other members here. The media knew absolutely nothing for 2 more years, but I shared it in June 2017 on a Lexus forum my findings. Luckily it turned out to be true, as Canada production did begin in March of 2022.


I only didn't realize in 2016-17 that the 2G NX would adopt midsize TNGA-K, not compact TNGA-C. Like I have been hypothesizing for the 6G 4Runner, this came after JPN production began in Q3 2021.

Toyota had also announced on April 19, 2013 prior to the NX shift, the production shift of Americas Lexus ES 350 assembly from Japan to the Camry Kentucky factory of TMMK back in 2013. First units didn't roll off until October 19, 2015, exactly 30 months or 2.5 years to the exact day of announcement.


With the Sequoia, they announced on January 17, 2020 (1)(2) the new production shift of the Sequoia to TMMTX in San Antonio, Texas, pushing out Tacoma production (since 2010). It came to fruition in Q3 2022 (July), albeit with some serious hiccups that delayed dealer launch apparently to October 2022.

Toyota clearly has set a pattern of 2-3 years in advance, for announcing production location changes. Obviously, I smell BS. Unless that the 4Runner won't be built in Mexico until the 2026 MY, I am not buying that theory one bit anymore.

Although it will be a challenge, I imagine it will stay in Tahara until proven otherwise by Toyota announcing a production location shift. 15 months is not enough time per their standards, but it's not unheard of?

Toyota back in 2020, might have indeed announced Sequoia pushing out Tacoma production, but I believe they refused to directly address Tacoma shift to 100% Mexico production.

In fact, when the last Tacoma was built at TMMTX in September 2021, there was no special ceremony acknowledging it at all. Sure there was COVID, but that's a BS excuse nonetheless.

I didn't even find out about the end of Texas production, as investigative as I am, until January 2022. Toyota basically sidestepped that production move, unlike the big story they gave the Tacoma production shift from NUMMI in Fremont, California in March 2010 (to TMMTX in the summer of 2010).




I'd say that the person in charge of their press announcements in September 2021 and also the press chief at TMMTX, purposely sidestepped that production shift from 20-33% USA to 100% Mexico and hoped Tacoma pickup truck buyers wouldn't really notice...

And they wouldn't have, if I didn't remind them about it myself or some of 'em checking the window sticker/door jam to notice on other '22 models next to zero 2022s being assembled at TMMTX.

I wouldn't put it past Toyota either, to quietly retool TMMGT for a new 4Runner and disclose it last minute in a low key capacity, to save face. I guess we'll see, what they do?

For the 2025 4Runner, I vote for Tahara start of production from July 2024 as previously stated, but my source is the one who gave me that Job 1 date in the first place and if it's right, then why does he have the wrong factory, but keeps proving dead accurate on several other things? We'll see, we'll see...

A late January 2024 reveal is what you should expect. RAV4 will follow in 12 months time it seems.

If you wanna chat further, send me a PM. I'm generally not gonna be posting publicly. Glad that on Tuesday, 1 of 4 new TNGA-F vehicles will debut, because F the bad info I was purposely sent on the Tacoma to make me look foolish.

Last edited by Carmaker1; 04-04-2023 at 08:06 AM. Reason: Holy typo!
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Old 04-03-2023, 07:59 AM #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post

A late January 2024 reveal is what you should expect. RAV4 will follow in 12 months time.
Thank you for this info. The Canadian International Auto Show is usually in February every year... I hope they can squeeze in the 4runner in there!
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Old 04-03-2023, 05:51 PM #680
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A late January 2024 reveal is what you should expect. RAV4 will follow in 12 months time.
It's hard to believe that we're in Q2 of 2023 already. When you think about it, January 2024 is not a long ways off...

Surprising that the Toyota Pressroom hasn't had anything about a Tacoma announcement tomorrow (4/4). The NY Auto Show press days are on 4/5 and 4/6, but Toyota isn't scheduled to make any announcements, according to their website.

Media and Press - New York International Auto Show

Maybe it'll just be another teaser? Or the reveal of the date for the reveal? Or Toyota just playing with everyone with that license plate in the photo?

In any case, I'm back to ordering a bZ4X and going full EV until the next 4Runner tempts me.
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Old 04-03-2023, 06:58 PM #681
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Hopefully it's revealed by Jan 2024 but doesn't that seem a bit early? The Tundra was Sept for a Nov delivery. The Tacoma is supposed to be released tomorrow for fall delivery. I would love to see it in January as I plan on ordering a 2024 4Runner for spring delivery but if the 6th gen is amazing I might cancel that and get a 2025. I just hope there is time to see the 6th gen but buy a 5th gen.
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Old 04-03-2023, 07:13 PM #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qs933 View Post
It's hard to believe that we're in Q2 of 2023 already. When you think about it, January 2024 is not a long ways off...

Surprising that the Toyota Pressroom hasn't had anything about a Tacoma announcement tomorrow (4/4). The NY Auto Show press days are on 4/5 and 4/6, but Toyota isn't scheduled to make any announcements, according to their website.

Media and Press - New York International Auto Show

Maybe it'll just be another teaser? Or the reveal of the date for the reveal? Or Toyota just playing with everyone with that license plate in the photo?

In any case, I'm back to ordering a bZ4X and going full EV until the next 4Runner tempts me.
I just subscribed to their YouTube feed in case they live stream the reveal as rumored.

Toyota USA - YouTube
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:17 AM #683
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Post MAXimum i-FORCE! The Next Generation Toyota Tacoma is Coming Soon!



PLANO, Texas (April 4, 2023) – The best-selling midsize pick-up in America is all-new for 2024 with electrifying i-FORCE MAX performance.

Stay tuned for updates on the Tacoma’s incredible new design and features.

403 Forbidden

Previous Post Has Been Updated for Clarity

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Thank you for this info. The Canadian International Auto Show is usually in February every year... I hope they can squeeze in the 4runner in there!
Most definitely, I hope it holds up, as they are not always so consistent with launch dates anymore, which can affect debut dates as well.

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Originally Posted by qs933 View Post
It's hard to believe that we're in Q2 of 2023 already. When you think about it, January 2024 is not a long ways off...

Surprising that the Toyota Pressroom hasn't had anything about a Tacoma announcement tomorrow (4/4). The NY Auto Show press days are on 4/5 and 4/6, but Toyota isn't scheduled to make any announcements, according to their website.

Media and Press - New York International Auto Show

Maybe it'll just be another teaser? Or the reveal of the date for the reveal? Or Toyota just playing with everyone with that license plate in the photo?

In any case, I'm back to ordering a bZ4X and going full EV until the next 4Runner tempts me.
The thing about it is, I remember back in February (14th) being told roughly verbatim, "So...what are you guys doing with the Ranger? We'll be making a press announcement on the new Tacoma the first week of April! Can't tell ya the exact date! Are you guys gonna beat us to it on the Ranger?"

That was our key conversation at a restaurant in Troy, MI during a double date and my spouse immediately silenced me on that subject (regarding Ranger). I've never seen her again, but if I wanted to find her again, I could. Just haven't really. I took the date and ran with it of course.

Back then, being caught up in 2-3 weeks (Jan-Feb) of predicting Toyota's reveal trajectory for this year, I interpreted this current week as similar to the 2023 Corolla GR in Q1 2022 (revealed April 1st). Fill in the blanks essentially.

She didn't necessarily say, we'll have a big photo spread and full reveal. Some online stranger has another date, which my cousin shared with me recently.

Maybe that one has more concreteness to it? IDK, just sharing, as it might not be fact. Probably is unfortunately. Late June 2023, guess we'll see.

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Hopefully it's revealed by Jan 2024 but doesn't that seem a bit early? The Tundra was Sept for a Nov delivery. The Tacoma is supposed to be released tomorrow for fall delivery. I would love to see it in January as I plan on ordering a 2024 4Runner for spring delivery but if the 6th gen is amazing I might cancel that and get a 2025. I just hope there is time to see the 6th gen but buy a 5th gen.
Point is understood on that short gap for the Tundra, but that isn't the standard gap for reveal vs launch on most Toyotas.

The 2023 Sequoia was revealed January 25, 2022 and barely launched in October 2022, after the first production units rolled off on September 21st (production began in August).

Like the Sequoia in Jan 2022 and Grand Highlander this past February (July/Aug 2023 launch), the 2025 4Runner is intended as the first reveal of 2024 against September 2024 deliveries. Might be Jan or Feb.

It also wasn't really true in terms of November 2021 deliveries for the 2022 Tundra.
The first production 2022 Tundra didn't even leave the factory to be shipped until December?


I definitely recall launch being mid-late December 2021 (in very sparse volume), which I learned to be true as early as September 2019. Despite the COVID-19 pandemic, Toyota fought like hell to force that same date through, resulting in quality issues. They were about to not launch the truck until early 2022, but forced themselves to keep the "damn date" .

Bear in mind that the final Tundra launch date was originally set pre-pandemic, in mid-2019. As late as March 2019, the Tundra was a 2021 MY. They started development in early 2015 under 780B Program, once called 954A.

Ultimately, Tundra SOP in October/Nov 2021 was VERY rough and due to COVID, they revealed it so close to on sale date in December.

Couldn't do the big auto press gatherings they wanted in early-mid 2021. Easier by September. Ditto for the 2 year delayed James Bond "No Time To Die" movie, which debuted over 1 week later as well.

i-ForceMax versions were supposed to launch at the same time originally, but during pre-reveal development in 2020, hybrid Tundra got delayed again to March/April 2022. Regular Tundra arrived in December 2021, fighting like hell to get it done.

The hybrid was a major reason the redesign fell behind 1 MY originally, as in 2019 they wanted to launch all Tundra variants at the same time and not stagger them. Same reasoning happened with the 6G 4Runner, according to source

The i-ForceMax TTV6 proved challenging (just like 2021 Sienna) apparently to meet a Q4 2020 release date, so the whole redesign got delayed 1 year to Q4 2021.

Like a domino effect, many Toyota TNGA-F redesign delays followed. The Land Cruiser 300 was another domino effect contributor next to the Tundra, when its own hybrid system met similar issues too and ultimately didn't even arrive as planned. Plus some 300 restyling work ordered by Akio Toyoda in 2017-18 (production began spring 2021). 300 hybrid is now mid-cycle, sometime late next year alongside LX 700h.

The Tacoma isn't necessarily fall 2023. It is supposed to enter production at the very earliest, November 1st. I've said this several times, based on 3rd party SOP charts. Prior to that, most industry chatter had it listed for December 1, 2023 SOP since Q3 of 2021 and so have Toyota Motor North America. November 2023 SOP is suspicious to me, yet to be 100%.

From mid-2019 to Q3 of 2021, '24 Tacoma was listed as August 2023 SOP, late September '23 launch. Before mid-2019 domino delays, it was a 2023 model year redesign in August 2022.

No one will see a 2024 Tacoma in any moderate volume, let alone sufficient national volume, until early 2024. That's not my speculation necessarily, but good faith insight via Toyota. (Just don't ask about powertrains or they'll trick or ghost you.)

A reveal for the 2025 4Runner in late January is reasonable per Toyota MO, in observing many recent reveals. They'll be revealing the next Camry this fall, which is a 2025 model. Before that, 2024* Land Cruiser.


*Model Year can be altered very easily


Quote:
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I just subscribed to their YouTube feed in case they live stream the reveal as rumored.

Toyota USA - YouTube
SMH, unfortunately TexFR I think I should've asked my source on that reveal date more questions. I expected a full reveal, although she didn't even say that herself. She coyly asked about the Ranger and then bragged about the Tacoma press announcement the first week of April.

Looks like "press announcement" was more correct than what I even expected. Another flop on my end. SMH.

I can see why they'd do this though, based on the Job 1 date being at the very end of the year.

My question is though, why is Toyota copying the moniker for the V35A-FTS turbo hybrid of iForceMax for a likely much lesser T24A-FTS Hybrid?

Doesn't make sense to me, other than also being a pickup. Unless, they are using the same engine? Highly unlikely. We'll see.

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Old 04-04-2023, 03:46 PM #684
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My question is though, why is Toyota copying the moniker for the V35A-FTS turbo hybrid of iForceMax for a likely much lesser T24A-FTS Hybrid?

Doesn't make sense to me, other than also being a pickup. Unless, they are using the same engine? Highly unlikely. We'll see.
I'm just guessing, but could it be the TRD Pro will use the iForceMax V35A-FTS turbo hybrid and it'll be exclusive to that trim? That could justify a significant pricing premium for the TRD Pro model.

I agree -- it is confusing if i-FORCE MAX and Hybrid MAX are used interchangeably to brand the same engine across Tacoma, Crown, and Grand Highlander. Unless, like you wrote, i-FORCE = truck and Hybrid = car/crossover.
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Old 04-05-2023, 03:59 AM #685
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She didn't necessarily say, we'll have a big photo spread and full reveal. Some online stranger has another date, which my cousin shared with me recently.

Maybe that one has more concreteness to it? IDK, just sharing, as it might not be fact. Probably is unfortunately. Late June 2023, guess we'll see.
Toyota’s fleet site does have MY2023 orders open up until July 10 so a June reveal date does certainly seem possible to me.
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Old 04-05-2023, 10:52 AM #686
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I'm just guessing, but could it be the TRD Pro will use the iForceMax V35A-FTS turbo hybrid and it'll be exclusive to that trim? That could justify a significant pricing premium for the TRD Pro model.
I just don't see Toyota doing something that aggressive. The Supra doesn't even have that much power.
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Old 04-05-2023, 01:34 PM #687
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I just don't see Toyota doing something that aggressive. The Supra doesn't even have that much power.
Yes, but with the Supra they were largely stuck with what drive train they were sourcing from BMW.
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Old 04-05-2023, 04:26 PM #688
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Yes, but with the Supra they were largely stuck with what drive train they were sourcing from BMW.
Good point. I had completely forgotten about that.
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Old 04-05-2023, 04:39 PM #689
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I just don't see Toyota doing something that aggressive. The Supra doesn't even have that much power.
True, but they also squeezed 300+ HP into the RAV4 (Prime), so stranger things have happened.

I guess the question is whether Toyota is aligning their electrified vehicle naming scheme along the lines of “truck” vs. “car/crossover,” which makes sense.

The trucks will have an iForceMAX that’s a turbo + electric motor. Cars will have a HybridMAX that’s turbo + electric motor. The actual motors could vary within those lines.

Or, they could make it where iForceMAX = 6-cylinder turbo + electric motor and HybridMAX = 4-cylinder turbo + electric motor, regardless of body style.

Either one sounds plausible. Guess we’ll just need to wait and see.
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Old 04-05-2023, 06:31 PM #690
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There's no way Toyota will put the Sequoia engine in a Taco. The 2.4 turbo hybrid in the Crown makes 340hp and 400 torque. I think it's just a truck thing. Iforce Max in trucks. 340/400 are great numbers.
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