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Old 03-15-2023, 12:32 AM #646
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Originally Posted by RichinRidgewood View Post
Nonsense. Itís hard to believe Toyota has missed launch dates. 6th Gen 4Runner could very well be dead
There's been random rumors since 2018 based on the 7 model year cycle of every prior generation. The only reliable sources have been consistent that it's 24 or 25.

I don't know why they'd sell a Land Cruiser 240 and 4rumner together that share the same platform, size, and engines. But they will for some reason instead of the lc300 that we actually want.
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Old 03-15-2023, 08:35 AM #647
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Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
I don't know why they'd sell a Land Cruiser 240 and 4rumner together that share the same platform, size, and engines. But they will for some reason instead of the lc300 that we actually want.
Perhaps for the same reason they sold the FJ Cruiser alongside the 4Runner.
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Old 03-15-2023, 03:24 PM #648
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Originally Posted by TexasFunRunner View Post
Perhaps for the same reason they sold the FJ Cruiser alongside the 4Runner.
At least in that case you could make a value proposition that the FJ Cruiser was a shorter wheelbase and IIRC it was about $5k cheaper (roughly 20% less). So there was some separation in the two. - But also the FJ Cruiser didn't sell very well because it kinda sucked due to the styling making visibility terrible and the door config wasn't very good. So I'm not sure if it's an example of a success or one of a failure that should have been a good lesson to Toyota. Much like the LC200 only being offered in a top trim version was a market failure. They shouldn't try the LC200 route again. It didn't work then, it won't work now.

I think Toyota should just choose one SUV to be in the 110-115" wheelbase with 5/7 seat options as offroad ready family SUV. Small - medium - large works. Family wagon - HD work truck - light duty utility works. I don't think boxy off-road 4 door midsize wagon and slightly more boxy off-road 4 door midsize wagon works.

I do think on the Lexus side a boxy offroad midsize SUV wagon fits. The LX600 is not very offroad oriented anymore. It has less ground clearance in the std models than the RX350. I'm not sure it would perform meaningfully better on the trails if you add the caveat that it's a lease like 95% of them are and you don't want to rip the bumper covers off. On that side of the house the new model probably work well and have significant separation.

We'll see pretty soon what comes out. I really do hope it's something amazing and I'm first in line to buy one. Can't wait to see what it is.
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Old 03-15-2023, 05:31 PM #649
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Talking

I hear the motor is going to be the 22RE turbo.
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Old 03-15-2023, 09:17 PM #650
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As I can see from elsewhere, I am continually taken out of context and a message gets muddled as a result unfortunately.

Not only that particular issue, but the aspect of intentionally ignorant trolling by a set of folks on several Toyota forums/spaces who somehow want to be the smartest person in the room on any given subject or wisest "skeptic", yet cannot deliver in terms of any given rebuttal, because they're bereft of any tangible information themselves.

You're welcome to be personally skeptical over any information I put forward, but unless you have your own Toyota contacts like I do or currently work for Toyota, you don't know a damn thing and I don't care to hear from you personally. Nor do I care for you attempting to mislead anyone else, who unlike you, are actually trying to get a better idea of developments coming along.

I have better things to do with my limited time on forums, than argue with you back & forth, if and when you are arguing in bad faith. Get a life and do something productive with your free time, than wasting mine and everyone else's, pushing misinformation, if you are not here to make real contributions that aid the greater collective.

Surely there are sub-forums for Gen 1-5 and other Toyota vehicles, for you to shitpost in, if you are that uninformed and can't put two and two together, at this point in time? This isn't 5 years ago, so you have no excuse.

As I f**king said before, Toyota will be launching the next 4Runner for MY 2025, in September of 2024 per the CURRENT point in time. Before that? At Tahara, the next generation Land Cruiser Prado and GX enter production this October, for December 2023 launch. November 2023 for JDM versions.

The 2024 Tacoma TRD PRO is the T24A-FTS Hybrid Max, powered by 240 KW and 630 NM (converted to avoid Google searches). This is from someone who has seen the vehicle and knows information on it. That will be out in spring 2024 and before that the regular Tacoma should be December or January.

The 243 HP and 186 lb-ft of the Highlander Hybrid is not going to be identical to the longitudinal setup in the Tacoma. Horsepower and Torque has been massaged, to be more suitable for truck use.

For those who really need the extra power and not so much great fuel economy, there are other choices such as 2GR-FKS and the TRD PRO halo offering. I cannot speak on Trail Hunter, because I haven't asked it. I have not heard from these sources on the sub-300 hp T24A being offered, but if it is I will be shocked, because I haven't anything about that at all, other than stupid media like TFL and vloggers with no independent source verifying such claims.

When I have stated 2GR-FKS, I didn't say it will only be offered with a manual transmission. I stated that it will be the lone engine for that transmission, if the tentative decision to carryover RC62F into the TNGA-F architecture, means a 6MT Tacoma might still be available in being standard on the V6, with auto optional only. Every other powertrain is auto only.

In terms of the powertrains, I do not know if the 4Runner will have non-HM T24A-FTS 2.4T as the base engine or if A25A-FXS 2.5L will be offered as the NA hybrid option, with Hybrid Max 2.4T on top. I am again only passing on any information I was told and trust to be accurate. There are so many theories I hear, that I don't even mention publicly, in sounding contradictory to me and I'm not willing to risk it coming from me as "credible". If turns out to be true, still not ruskin

Hell, for all I know 1GR-FE isn't gone either. My source mentioned why and for how long 1GR-FE will be manufactured, but hides from me the full lineup, probably figuring out I talk too much about what he tells me.

A Hybrid Only 4Runner isn't outlandish, as I mostly hear about Hybrids regarding 4Runner. I am afraid to ask, because it becomes somewhat self-serving to ask someone and then spill it here. I prefer to be told, than ask too many questions and scare someone away, from being too nosy.

Now onto the Land Cruiser, yes that is coming and even though I stubbornly tried to believe it wasn't a Prado, yes it unfortunately is (IMO). I don't see how a vehicle that large can successfully compete against a Bronco and Wrangler with a fixed roof, when it is still treated in some markets as a luxury SUV where Lexus isn't sold. When the Fortuner already exists, what's the point of making the Prado more rugged?

That should be here this December (and hopefully not summer 2024 like one idiot said to me).

As for the Lexus GX? Well, that's unfortunately a reskinned Prado once again it means, but quite an offering to look forward to, if you don't require a V8 under the hood. A loaded GX will reach well into the $80s, if not touch $90k with every possible accessory a dealer can tack on.

TX 550h+ will be a Lexus exclusive PHEV vehicle based on a transverse version of the GX 550h powertrain and a plug-in, out by this Christmas. Will the be most expensive Lexus unibody crossover ever, reaching over $80k loaded and pushing out roughly 400 hp.

TX 350 (underpowered) and TX 500h will arrive before it in September. This will start in the low $50s, TX 500h at under $70k.

GX BEV is again in whiteboard phases and early discussions, once GX 550 launch draws nearer, full committal to the program will begin and a final design approval should be reached by the end of 2025 or early half of 2026, in order to be ready for scheduled January 2029 Job 1. Styling work should be in the advanced stages soon (if not already), moving to production planning sometime next year.

I didn't comment on it months ago, due to lack of personal interest, but since the question came up from @Jetboy , I decided to bring it up recently.

The Land Cruiser 300 will be facelifted for 2025, on another tidbit of information I ignored from months ago and also didn't think much of, until I realized my source was disclosing to me a refreshed LX with new hybrid and ditto for LC300. This is the LX 700h trademark recently filed. This is a rushed facelift, as typically these are launched more than 4 years out. Also the case for the 2025 Tundra, which has many surprises planned that I am skeptical of and won't comment on publicly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasFunRunner View Post
Since we are talking about Toyota versus Ford vehicles, for those of us that would like to see the Toyota reputation of quality be continued with the new 4Runner and Land Cruiser and for the rollout to be stellar right out of the gate. However, seeing the numerous Tundra first year issues are reason to give pause to that hope.

On the other hand, the Ford family of vehicles, say the Bronco as comparison, since it can be cross shopped with the 4Runner and Land Cruiser, has had an abysmal rollout with one quality problem after another. The Ford CEO is out there admitting they have "challenges", a nice way of saying poor quality and recalls galore they can't get a handle on and are losing money in the billion$.

So, @Carmaker1 , do you have hope or concrete facts that both Toyota and Ford can get it together on quality or is that a distant pipe dream?


PS:
Hilarious, after I posted the above I stumbled on the below parroting my thoughts of "abysmal quality".

"The abysmal quality of the Ford Motor Company strikes again"
Ford Recalls Bronco Over Safety Concern, Owners Advised Not to Drive Vehicles - autoevolution
I thought I made it somewhat clear in my last post, why I no longer discuss Ford related matters in these kind of online spaces? This very comment I made here in 2020 at Lexus Enthusiast as my final post forever (after a decade), should answer your question on the stance I've taken to avoid partisan conflict. I don't like being put in that awkward position, just because I (favorably) discuss the competition in my personal time without slanted criticism or objectively with enthusiasm.

I'm an enthusiast, who also happens to be a working professional with a competitive position against some of my personal interests. I am not employed by Toyota Motor North America nor Global, so there are less conflicts of interest to talk about what they're doing for the future. Well, other than the competitive aspect.

Users here are welcome to bash or constructively criticize Ford Motor Company if they want to for their own personal reasons, but for professional reasons I cannot not participate in such topics, as it becomes an unwelcome conflict of interest of sorts for me.

I also pretty much cease posting in a medium when such a pattern comes to a head. Where it can easily descend into heated arguments on company vs company and putting me on the defensive, in any given thread I'm regularly involved in. I have no choice but to stop posting, due to existing policies I abide by. Whether I agree or disagree on given matters.

I believe Toyota has something similar posted here for their own employees. I'm not here to discuss these kind of Ford matters and I hope people can respect that, since we are discussing the future of the 4Runner and TNGA-F vehicles, not why X and Y competitor is Z reason (good or bad).

In my personal view not representative of FMC, Jim F. has spent the last 2.5 years to right the Ford ship, having once worked for Toyota himself years ago. These things take time and everyone has to be on the same page too. Toyota has many of its own issues, which continue to appear as of late and I never make it my business to criticize them, not to mention I get annoyed at Blue Oval brethren in casual convo, who are ever so hypocritical to point fingers at Toyota and deride them, albeit sometimes immaturely. I'm fairly objective about everything I discuss and don't play favorites, outside of speaking with my dollars on vehicles I acquire.

I know a hell of a lot about both companies and one thing they both share, is there are two well known namesake families involved with them, unlike the rest of the core competition. (And ironically both luxury brands start with L)

I do not want to be discussing any controversial Ford related topic here and is why I stick to threads like this, which generally are focused solely on Toyota developments. I cannot do it objectively nor act as a official representative on the defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
Thanks for all the insight!! No need to prove anything to me at least. You have a track record of being pretty darn accurate.

Tacoma engine options are pretty disappointing. I get the idea of the small 4cyl NA engine in a 2wd work truck. But the 2GR version feels so anemic already in a crew cab 4x4 model. It's hard to imagine Toyota bringing it back for another model generation for the high volume engine choice. My parents have one. It's marginal empty and almost unusable for pulling even a small camper. If that's the main engine - I think it'll get a luke warm reception at best. I wouldn't buy one. I like the 2GR in my RX350, but it's also a lot more aerodynamic and I don't tow anything with it so the power demand is less and it works really well. And the mpg is not good either because in the real world the hp demand is well outside of the high thermal efficiency range. So it's neither powerful or efficient.

The T24A would at least offer decent mid-rpm power and probably make the driving experience a whole lot nicer even if it's not any faster. At least it doesn't have to live at 5500 rpms on every slight incline. The Ranger has the 2.3T across the range with a 3.0TTV6 raptor at the top and the next gen Colorado/canyon will have the 2.7 that's a lot more powerful. The hybrid might match the Colorado and Ranger Raptor on 0-60 times, but it doesn't really make up for the undersized engine in steady state highway cruising conditions where the GR is too small and the T24A might be as well.


I should hold my judgment until I drive it. I can't see it working well in an even heavier 4Runner or Land Cruiser.
Thank you. I am just passing on internal insight, which matches other insight to the best of my knowledge. I recently was PMed by not just 1, but 2 users here that work for Toyota. They gave me a thumbs up. Off the clock, Toyota is not the enemy to me. In reality, I'd say that's more so GM and Tesla...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
The 4R has been targeted for MY2025 for quite a while as per the insider sources. 2024 reveal happens to be next year. Not sure this is a surprise.

It should have been updated in MY2018 with at least an 8AT and either a T4 or updated 1GR with a minor facelift in 2021. And this should be the 7th gen for MY2025.
Ignore his nonsense, as he's obviously trolling. No one at Toyota agrees with him and everyone knows what's happening with the missed launch dates. Since last June, the 4Runner has been scheduled for MY 2025. From early 2021 to June 2022, it was MY 2024, halfway through the model year (got informed in June 2021).

From mid-2019 to early 2021, it was MY 2023, which is why you saw an early 2020 launch timetable showing it for CY 2022 launch alongside the Sequoia.

It was supposed to debut midsize TNGA-F first, but that ended up being the Tacoma and 180-Series vehicles.

It should've been updated with a second facelift sooner, but the amount of lead time involved to commit to + execute any type of MMC, is still measured in years (2-3). A redesigned 4Runner, when the 6th generation effort was resurrected 6-7 years ago, was coming no earlier than Q4 of 2021. It was targeted for 1 year after Tundra (October 2020) and 1-2 years after Land Cruiser 300 (originally late 2019-early 2020).

With both 300 Series and Tundra often being delayed in the late 2010s, anything below them had to be as well. Toyota wanted to announce the 2021 Tundra together with iForceMAX and when that fell behind, as well as struggling to implement that engine on the 300-Series, everything on TNGA-F fell behind 1 model year. Toyota has run into these kind of issues in the past, but is trying to better manage when model launches start overlapping too much.

Actually, Honda was very dumb squeezing so many new models into the 2023 model year, meaning they might risk fighting for resources at the same time later on. Between the Civic range in 2021, multiple versions of that, HR-V differing versions, CR-V, Accord, and Pilot, it was a damn mess.

That being said, Richie like many trolls is not here to discuss this in good faith, but in bad faith and center himself as the one who knows what's really happening, because the rest of you are somehow suckers. Well, he doesn't one bit unfortunately and such people arguing in bad faith are usually not worth the wasted time, in trying to steer them in the right direction.

He could've known it all on his own if he wanted to, but hasn't (I figure) and instead prefers to derail discussion like a common troll, as if he somehow discovered there's no cure for cancer and all the oncologists worldwide, should stop trying to treat cancer patients.

Toyota hides their internal missteps extremely well, but not always. I don't like to speak critically of any company, I just prefer to provide information on what I know is happening at the current point in time regarding future product. I'm not on here criticizing their slow adoption of BEVs nor lack of high-performance models, akin to Raptor, AMG (Lexus), or etc. Other people focus on that and rail them over the coals, forgetting Toyota delivers on many OTHER aspects.

The delays are related to internal missteps and the course correcting responses taking time to implement, plus shuffling around some model launches from the unexpected delays making model launches clash with each other.

The increasing sales of current N280 4Runner has been a nice cushion to fallback on, while Toyota finishes up its replacement vehicle. They didn't feel this was something to rely on a decade ago when they were ready to discontinue it on the belief ladder frame utilities had fallen out of favor in the Anglophone Western Hemisphere and Western Europe, with the only market for them being other markets, via future 300, Prado 180-Series, and next Fortuner. Sequoia, even GX, and 4Runner were as good as dead.

Well, the Sequoia was renewed at the same time the 4Runner was in 2015, but urgently needed some cosmetic attention for the 2018 model year after not being updated since launch in December 2007.

The decision to skip another big 4Runner refresh (MMC), after the big 2014 MY MMC, is one I can attribute to Toyota taking a wait and see approach, towards investing as little as possible before a FMC in late 2021.

With an end of 2021 JOB 1 date at the start of being greenlit for development over 5 years, the only MY for cosmetic updates would've been MY 2019 in late 2018. In late 2014, the 4Runner had no plans for a future like the FJ. Unlike the FJ, that would mean the entire N280 would be killed off, since the primary market was N. Amer in terms of justified volume.

The Prado got its second update for MY 2018 in September 2017, while GX and 4Runner were ignored and left untouched for 2018. They were supposed to be MY 2019 in late 2018.

What ended up happening was a much lighter second N280 MMC arrived late for 2020MY, in 2019 alongside the 2020MY Tacoma MMC (625B; nee 989A).

The redesigned 2022 4Runner (November 2021) and 2023 Tacoma (August 2022) had also just fallen behind in mid-2019 from the previous internal timeline to now October 2022 and September 2023 as the 2023 4Runner (930B) and 2024 Tacoma (920B). They completed design work on that new 4Runner originally in early 2020 and began prototype testing of the vehicle in North America, in early 2021. (Not sure if the design was reworked, because a design frozen in 2020 will be outdated in late 2024.)

During 2021, several midsize TNGA-F vehicles suffered more delays at different times of the year. In the first half of 2021, the Prado/GX/4Runner ended up being 2024 MY vehicles, alongside the 2024 Tacoma. The Tacoma got delayed from August 2023 Job 1 for late September launch, to December 2023 Job 1 for Winter 2024 launch.

The 4Runner itself was among the worst, going from Late Summer 2022 Job 1, 2023 MY to January 2024 Job 1, March 2024 launch as a 2024 MY. The 150-Series replacements were now scheduled to arrive in late 2023 before the 4Runner and no longer in parallel. Last May, I heard new correspondence everything was still coming along for January 2024 Job 1.

Then a few weeks later in June, I newly heard from my primary source, quite frantically of some pre-production 930 Program processes being shifted back exactly 6 months from July 2023 to January 2024. I was told this meant, July 2024 Job 1 for MY 2025. I don't know exactly when Toyota begins pilot production as a standard measure, but it is usually half a year before SOP at most OEMs.

For now, that's what will happen. September 2024 launch. If it changes again, I have no control over it and will report it privately only going forward to anyone I want to share it with.

As of recent, per a Plano HQ source:

4Runner, Tacoma, Land Cruiser Prado, and GX are coming to North America through the end of 2024. There should be no complaints about them, when everything becomes public.

No single pessimist trying to pout and shout gloom and doom, will undermine that reality LOL. In fact, I think I'll address that privately, so that this doesn't affect my ability to be confided in...

Last edited by Carmaker1; 03-18-2023 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 03-15-2023, 11:22 PM #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinRidgewood View Post
We keep hearing "... it's coming out next year". It reminds me of the signs Ive seen in bars "free beer tomorrow"
A multi-billion dollar conglomerate is nothing like some cheap little corner pub, looking to pull a fast one over some dimwitted drunks. What ever problems you have with me and my supposed "speculation" (in your POV), has nothing to do with the accuracy of what I put forward.

When people at Toyota on a personal level (not professional), commend what I am doing to "keep speculation in line", "say what we can't say out loud", and "attack misinformation against our silent work" in an unofficial capacity, I think that says more than enough, if I am not instead being corrected and chastised by them. And this is thanks to many of their colleagues either being good friends of mine or online acquaintances and spilling the engineering tea.

You'd do very well to lean on any industry contacts of your own---if you even have them at Toyota/Tier 1 suppliers---instead of cynically trying to poke the bear and mislead people, simply because you don't even know anything yourself and want everyone else to share in that misery of cluelessness and attack anyone else who tries to learn more ahead of time, as if they're somehow stupid and naive, unlike wise old Richie.

I've seen relevant information with my own eyes on different Toyota programs and sometimes have to work from memory to dispense it, as well as delay it from publication in these spaces to ensure a trail cannot be identified by Toyota authorities and hurt the person who passed it onto me.

If and when that changes, I often luckily get explanations on it from one of my best sources, unlike you of course (who clearly knows next to nothing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinRidgewood View Post
lol

Try 2022 and rumors before that.
Irrelevant hearsay on your part, because you haven't directed quoted any examples of the sort, which support your nonsensical theories. No one cares much about what you personally have to say, we care more about misinformation being passed around and creating bad rumor mills, which lower expectations.

You don't even know what's happening with anything at Toyota Motor North America through December 2025 lately and because you don't, you feel everyone else must share in your own ignorance, because you're somehow special and "above it all".

If you really wanted to know what's coming, you definitely would already at this point in some capacity. I am more shocked that you don't, CONSIDERING your background, because even as someone with a busy social life and extremely busy professional career, I still manage to keep up by leaning into my resources and marrying it to my top notch research skills.

I get countless emails, texts, calls, CEs, and forum PMs from different Toyota people, of which are 95% positive. The fact you're retired from similar work and didn't bother to make such industry connections in your day, ain't got nothing to do with what I know presently LOL. Many of us share what we're doing with each other, provided it's kept off the record. You obviously know this, there's no way you wouldn't.

I don't rely on magazines and glorified blogs for my information, like the average mediocre clickbait YouTuber does or time crunched journo. Only few of those YouTubers are even credible, so as not to insult the ones I actually respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinRidgewood View Post
Nonsense. It¬’s hard to believe Toyota has missed launch dates. 6th Gen 4Runner could very well be dead
I've looked past some of the bitter, snarky attempts at personal attacks you've posted here towards me, but I think I've tolerated enough (as seen in some quotes above from me). For someone retired from this field, YOU should KNOW BETTER about how shit can spiral out of control in this industry, when deadlines are missed and adjustments have to be made in response.

Projected launch dates are not always concrete, if the work behind the vehicle cannot keep up or needs to be pushed back or even pushed forward, to meet the market needs.

Toyota does their best to hide their delays and general missteps from the public, but it still happens regardless of what you think is actually happening.

There are so many examples I could point to, but I can't say you deserve that explanation from obviously arguing in bad faith to simply deride my efforts and anyone else trying to learn more about this vehicle.

You already made the ridiculous assumption once that I'm some social climber, living paycheck to paycheck. You did that simply based on where my spouse and I decided to relocate to a while back, not even knowing from Adam, HOW and WHY we did and maybe even COULD do so.

I already politely pointed out, that if I didn't want to, I'd never have to work for a living and neither would my spouse. Despite my upbringing, I do work for a living, because I don't believe in being unproductive and lazy, via depending on family connections to solely get me through life. Not to mention, it was always something in my sights from early on in life. Working in the automotive industry.

I once wanted to start my own volume production automotive company, but I had to grow up by university and realize I am not a multi-billionaire or trillionaire who can make that possible on my own without a few decades of experience and requisite capital investment. Easier to just earn the necessary degrees and join an established OEM instead and work my way up. I did that and did it well. The little time that I still spend on forums, discussing these subject matters relating to upcoming models, is something I did before entering my career many years ago.

I still do it as a past time, nevermind many like myself refrain from doing so for NDA-related reasons, time constraints, and many of them misguided superiority complexes. Thus I discuss Toyota and non-affiliated companies on average.

From what I can observe, no one at Toyota here in Michigan, Ontario, nor in Texas must currently reach out to you, so you're in the dark and think your uninformed position on this subject, automatically applies to everyone else and that you somehow know better than the rest of us, without even having the facts yourself. It doesn't work like that, because clearly we wear different shoes and not to mention a few other users that I won't name, to respect their privacy.

Some of you on these forums are more focused on being seen as the smartest person in the room and the wisest skeptic against "sUm fAsT tAwKiNg eXpErT", than helpfully keeping your fellow poster/Toyota owner informed on what might just be around the corner or further down the line.

You are one of those people clearly, because if you did know what has been going WRONG at Toyota with the 930 Program (like many other new Toyotas) for the redesign of this nameplate, you wouldn't have joined the ignorant bandwagon of "YoTa's cAnCeLeEd da 4Runner aN uR wRoNg!"

Truth be told, I don't even believe your sole uninformed perspective on this matters much, as the main message being received by the 4Runner and greater Toyota shopping public matters much more to me.

What I won't have you doing, is muddling the context of any information I have gathered carefully and already put forward, when you have absolutely nothing tangible to base your misplaced arrogant commentary off of, other than your supposed armchair quarterback theories, with zero fresh internal insight from Toyota to back it up.

Toyota is not immune to internal delays, in fact no company in this industry is and luckily I've seen the proof with my own eyes, from my own curiosity often pointing me in the right direction.

Toyota delayed the 500B Sienna program MANY times between 2016 and 2020, the same story for the Sequoia, which every IDIOT out there said it was dead and I said that wasn't true for years, because I knew better.

Well, I was right, because I trust the insight I get. Many idiots didn't even remember Toyota had already announced that same new Sequoia to the press, 2 years before it got revealed. Yet, it was DeD and CaHmAkUH was lying...

Also even the case with the 380D Camry Program, which was originally targeted for Q3 2023 Job 1 as a 2024 model to replace the 010B-developed XV70 Camry (launched July 2017) in fall of 2023.

380D Program has slipped into the new Camry being a 2025 model next April and yet many stupid publications, keep touting a 2024 model year redesign and misleading people everywhere. They previously were claiming 2023, with ZERO proof and ignoring my warnings over misinformation.

Any 2024 Camry sold by Toyota will go on sale later this summer ahead of next spring's redesign and will be an abbreviated model year, yet many people won't listen until the last minute and obviously have the memory of a goldfish.

I have given up on that Camry debacle, since a simple Google search in 9 months time will show I was right once again, like I am on many things since my information is luckily coming from the damn source themselves LOL.


And the few times I am NOT, I will usually get ahead of it and correct course, so any outdated information can be abandoned and no longer trusted. Everyone else takes ages to catch up with me, specifically the clickbait vloggers and news media who never like to admit to being wrong and hurt their credibility. I'm never above being wrong.

A number of Toyota people have gotten in touch with me on this vehicle since 2018-19, so I discuss it from both their intel and my own skilled research, like I have a few other models. I don't discuss Toyota models that are too vague to address (such as GR86, 2025 Corolla, BEV 8-seater), because the information isn't sufficient and satisfactory to pass onto the next gal or guy.

Other people entertain that round of bullshit speculation to bolster faux credibility for clicks, when they know absolutely nothing. I don't do that nor do I need YouTube to post shaky speculation, because I certainly don't need the AdSense (or etc) money nor do I want the very unwelcome fame either.

I value my privacy much more and do just fine informing people with zero benefit, in a lowkey capacity. My father taught me very young, it is better to be behind the scenes managing everything (and profiting), than in front of the camera and lose all semblance of a personal life or privacy. While there is no profit here, the greater collective being better informed is the reward.

In conclusion, you can kindly go piss off with your own round of misguided and derailing nonsense and continue making stupid thread after thread if you wish to. I absolutely look forward to when Toyota finally goes public with this vehicle, because you will look like the fool you've chosen to be and definitely are already. Moderators I am sure will delete or redact much of what I've said, but frankly I've said mine, because I've been more than diplomatic towards you, when all you are is one cranky old git with a horrible temperament.

I expected much better from you, but all you do is remind me of colleagues I absolutely detest and stumble over themselves with their unwarranted hubris. Quite unfortunate, as it's your own funeral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppyjr View Post
I agree. Why ¬“fix¬” what isn¬’t broken?

Toyota has plenty of options for those who want all the modern ¬“features¬” so they would be wise to leave the 4Runner for those of us who appreciate its reliability, durability, and old-school charm.
Well that's not happening, so you can agree with any ignorant belief under the sun if you want to (ie no 4R redesign; iT DeD), but if the Big T and his people downstairs in Toyota-shi and halfway across the world in Michigan and TX have already committed hundreds of millions to redesign this vehicle, your opinion on keeping it unchanged through years on end doesn't mean much does it at this point?

I'm tired of you self-centered luddites, as no company cares about if you want the same old vehicle forever, if it doesn't help the company achieve internal targets and meet regulations.

I only discuss what I hear and trust to be accurate regarding upcoming vehicles. I don't make up things. So if you want to be helping make contradictory remarks and gaslight individuals following what I've stated, I'll take issue with that real fast.

David Chao at Automotive Press might BS along the way and pull rabbits out of his hat, in being a retired stubborn old git like Richie and create a bunch of false rumors, because no one who has any real information is talking to him at Toyota in Aichi, since he will get in front of a camera and blab all of Toyota's secrets to his channel's benefit, in order to get paid for it handsomely.

No one I talk to wants leaked information being traced back to them, which is why I divorce the information from the source and protect their confidence. Those of us who are more elusive and not famewhores, learn and know way more than many of you so quick to deride our efforts.

I do not post sensitive info in much more public mediums, because the risk of copyright takedowns become greater. If I got in front of a camera and used the same handle, no one would be reaching out to me anymore.

So, believe what you want.

I didn't know about the 4Runner running late (past MY 2023), until this same individual began communicating with me privately and tried to politely stop me from providing outdated information per pre-pandemic timelines. Almost 2 years later, he's been dead accurate. The only bone to pick with him, is this supposed production location change hasn't been announced and him once mislabeling a Lexus TX image as a BOF vehicle (before seeing 220D TX prototype per assignment).

Other than that, quite accurate and consistent. Plus very informative about so many Toyota and Lexus developments off the record, of which I have purposely never shared here.

Additionally, according to another source in Plano, a town I am QUITE acquainted with as well, they know everything there is to know about the 2024 Lexus GX 550, 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser, 2024 Tacoma, and 2025 4Runner. All 4 of these vehicles will be in Toyota and Lexus showrooms by the end of 2024 and two of them quite evolutionary in appearance, while the other 2 are very different.

I am tired of the same old, pessimistic song and dance, simply because a company is rightfully not so transparent about what they're doing. A lot of you capitalize on that silence in the worst way, as if the few of us who want to keep you informed on it from accurate insight, are somehow ignorant villains BSing you for kicks.

Good luck to you all with that logic and with following Richie down the rabbit hole. It's your funeral, when everything comes out. I'm done here. I try not to leave nasty comments, but I'm really over the BS here and many truck forums.

The only people who seem to follow whatever I post, without any single person being combative, are German luxury car owners and British brands.

The rest just don't seem to bother being well informed (as some good Toyota fans), in order to understand how this industry works behind the scenes and how it isn't in realm of impossible, for me or anyone else to be providing credible insight this early.

Is it no wonder, why no one else bothers and you people often are kept in the dark, until C&D finally hears from Toyota at the 11th hour or some dealer speaks too soon? No one from corporate will quietly share anything with you, because some of you prefer to insult the messenger and/or the earnest effort put forward. Again, good luck with that then.

Anyone worth my time, will hear from me privately and absolutely no one else. Luckily Toyota will go public soon enough on these 4 vehicles, because good luck learning more about anything else ever again.

Last edited by Carmaker1; 03-18-2023 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 03-15-2023, 11:57 PM #652
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Thanks again Carmaker! I wouldn't put too much stock into Richie (or any others) because many of their comments are void of actual content. It's usually just something snarky without any actual information. Most of us can see right through it.

When you say Lexus LX update, any chance it is to fix the (IMO) ugly ass grill? I would consider the vehicle because I wanted a LC300 but just hate the front so much.

My next hope is the GX550 but concerned it too will be "grill fest 2024". Any word on what the grill will be? You mentioned it was to compete against the Defender so I'm pumped about it. (If the defender was a toyota product I would own one but just couldn't pull the trigger knowing their history of less that stellar reliability)

I'm also very interested in the new LC and appreciate the time you take to fill us in. I tried calling my local Toyota to get on a list but they aren't doing anything like that.

Thanks again CM - love long and prosper, and keep spilling the beans.
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Old 03-16-2023, 01:12 AM #653
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Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

With an arrogant tone like that Iím pretty sure he also likes his governor.

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Old 03-16-2023, 01:28 PM #654
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Some good info. Thanks all. With toyoda resigning and a new push for electric vehicles, will the 4 runner have an all electric option, a hybrid option as well as ice? Thanks!
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Old 03-16-2023, 01:35 PM #655
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So it does seem to be the case the Prado is coming to the US.

For me this is potentially good news as I can't foresee Toyota only offering a 4 cylinder turbo, even in hybrid max trim, as the highest tier offering in the GX. We know the 4.6L V8 is going away, that much is all but confirmed, but is Toyota really going to step down from a V8 all the way down to a 4 cylinder? Although thinking on this a bit and given Toyota's conservatism and history of not competing on HP numbers, I could totally see Toyota doing that.

In any case, if the GX were to get the V35, we know the Prado is the sister vehicle of the GX and would also be capable of equipping the V35. Whether or not Toyota is bold enough to do so, we'll just have to wait.
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Old 03-16-2023, 02:04 PM #656
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Hi @Carmaker1 , thank you as always for your insightful news about new models. I've followed six new releases from different brands on numerous forums over the last ten years and was a moderator on two of them. I've never seen someone with so much information like yourself willingly share it with the forum, again, thank you.

For the few hundred forum members here that read and greatly appreciate your posts there are probably a few thousand non-forum members that read and greatly appreciate your posts here as well.

For the few dozen forum members that post in this thread in the attempt to constructively engage fellow forum members with our tidbits of information, like me explaining what my son-in-law, a Toyota Master Technician, heard from his general manager regarding the Land Cruiser, I believe you will find 95% of the people here genuinely want to learn about the latest and greatest. Some are here for the first time or have not read all 44 pages so they may have missed many of your posts, some of them may simply chime in with what they want in a new vehicle or some piece of information that may or may not be correct in their mind. I see many of these posts as the normal banter of any automotive forum and do not see them as a personal attack on you.

For the other 5% of the people, that is what the ignore button is for, on most forums at least, when that is not available the mental ignore button allows you to quickly skip those people's posts, you will never change human nature nor find the perfect forum, sometimes just putting on the mental armor helps to sluff of the irritants.

Please reconsider continuing to post here for the benefit of a few thousand people and just ignore the drivel of the few. One idea, if you are adamant to no longer post here, is to create your own private blog that only some people have a link to, turn off the comments, and post when you can. Then people can go to their favorite brand or model forum and discuss away, that way you do not have to read the drivel.

Again, sometimes it's better to just hit the ignore button...

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Old 03-16-2023, 09:03 PM #657
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Thank you carmaker, I love hearing about what you know. If you post a blog I want in
I still have a feeling the 4Runner will be made in Mexico. Just a hunch, hopefully itís still Japan
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Old 03-18-2023, 11:49 AM #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
As I can see from elsewhere, I am continually taken out of context and a message gets muddled as a result unfortunately.

Not only that particular issue, but the aspect of intentionally ignorant trolling by a set of folks on several Toyota forums/spaces who somehow want to be the smartest person in the room on any given subject or wisest "skeptic", yet cannot deliver in terms of any given rebuttal, because they're bereft of any tangible information themselves.

You're welcome to be personally skeptical over any information I put forward, but unless you have your own Toyota contacts like I do or currently work for Toyota, you don't know a damn thing and I don't care to hear from you personally. Nor do I care for you attempting to mislead anyone else, who unlike you, are actually trying to get a better idea of developments coming along.

I have better things to do with my limited time on forums, than argue with you back & forth, if and when you are arguing in bad faith. Get a life and do something productive with your free time, than wasting mine and everyone else's, pushing misinformation, if you are not here to make real contributions that aid the greater collective.

Surely there are sub-forums for Gen 1-5 and other Toyota vehicles, for you to shitpost in, if you are that uninformed and can't put two and two together, at this point in time? This isn't 5 years ago, so you have no excuse.

As I f**king said before, Toyota will be launching the next 4Runner for MY 2025, in September of 2024 per the CURRENT point in time. Before that? At Tahara, the next generation Land Cruiser Prado and GX enter production this October, for December 2023 launch. November 2023 for JDM versions.

The 2024 Tacoma TRD PRO is the T24A-FTS Hybrid Max, powered by 240 KW and 630 NM (converted to avoid Google searches). This is from someone who has seen the vehicle and knows information on it. That will be out in spring 2024 and before that the regular Tacoma should be December or January.

The 243 HP and 186 lb-ft of the Highlander Hybrid is not going to be identical to the longitudinal setup in the Tacoma. Horsepower and Torque has been massaged, to be more suitable for truck use.

For those who really need the extra power and not so much great fuel economy, there are other choices such as 2GR-FKS and the TRD PRO halo offering. I cannot speak on Trail Hunter, because I haven't asked it. I have not heard from these sources on the sub-300 hp T24A being offered, but if it is I will be shocked, because I haven't anything about that at all, other than stupid media like TFL and vloggers with no independent source verifying such claims.

When I have stated 2GR-FKS, I didn't say it will only be offered with a manual transmission. I stated that it will be the lone engine for that transmission, if the tentative decision to carryover RC62F into the TNGA-F architecture, means a 6MT Tacoma might still be available in being standard on the V6, with auto optional only. Every other powertrain is auto only.

In terms of the powertrains, I do not know if the 4Runner will have non-HM T24A-FTS 2.4T as the base engine or if A25A-FXS 2.5L will be offered as the NA hybrid option, with Hybrid Max 2.4T on top. I am again only passing on any information I was told and trust to be accurate. There are so many theories I hear, that I don't even mention publicly, in sounding contradictory to me and I'm not willing to risk it coming from me as "credible". If turns out to be true, still not ruskin

Hell, for all I know 1GR-FE isn't gone either. My source mentioned why and for how long 1GR-FE will be manufactured, but hides from me the full lineup, probably figuring out I talk too much about what he tells me.

A Hybrid Only 4Runner isn't outlandish, as I mostly hear about Hybrids regarding 4Runner. I am afraid to ask, because it becomes somewhat self-serving to ask someone and then spill it here. I prefer to be told, than ask too many questions and scare someone away, from being too nosy.

Now onto the Land Cruiser, yes that is coming and even though I stubbornly tried to believe it wasn't a Prado, yes it unfortunately is (IMO). I don't see how a vehicle that large can successfully compete against a Bronco and Wrangler with a fixed roof, when it is still treated in some markets as a luxury SUV where Lexus isn't sold. When the Fortuner already exists, what's the point of making the Prado more rugged?

That should be here this December (and hopefully not summer 2024 like one idiot said to me).

As for the Lexus GX? Well, that's unfortunately a reskinned Prado once again it means, but quite an offering to look forward to, if you don't require a V8 under the hood. A loaded GX will reach well into the $80s, if not touch $90k with every possible accessory a dealer can tack on.

TX 550h+ will be a Lexus exclusive PHEV vehicle based on a transverse version of the GX 550h powertrain and a plug-in, out by this Christmas. Will the be most expensive Lexus unibody crossover ever, reaching over $80k loaded and pushing out roughly 400 hp.

TX 350 (underpowered) and TX 500h will arrive before it in September. This will start in the low $50s, TX 500h at under $70k.

GX BEV is again in whiteboard phases and early discussions, once GX 550 launch draws nearer, full committal to the program will begin and a final design approval should be reached by the end of 2025 or early half of 2026, in order to be ready for scheduled January 2029 Job 1. Styling work should be in the advanced stages soon (if not already), moving to production planning sometime next year.

I didn't comment on it months ago, due to lack of personal interest, but since the question came up from @Jetboy , I decided to bring it up recently.

The Land Cruiser 300 will be facelifted for 2025, on another tidbit of information I ignored from months ago and also didn't think much of, until I realized my source was disclosing to me a refreshed LX with new hybrid and ditto for LC300. This is the LX 700h trademark recently filed. This is a rushed facelift, as typically these are launched more than 4 years out. Also the case for the 2025 Tundra, which has many surprises planned that I am skeptical of and won't comment on publicly.



I thought I made it somewhat clear in my last post, why I no longer discuss Ford related matters in these kind of online spaces? This very comment I made here in 2020 at Lexus Enthusiast as my final post forever (after a decade), should answer your question on the stance I've taken to avoid partisan conflict. I don't like being put in that awkward position, just because I (favorably) discuss the competition in my personal time without slanted criticism or objectively with enthusiasm.

I'm an enthusiast, who also happens to be a working professional with a competitive position against some of my personal interests. I am not employed by Toyota Motor North America nor Global, so there are less conflicts of interest to talk about what they're doing for the future. Well, other than the competitive aspect.

Users here are welcome to bash or constructively criticize Ford Motor Company if they want to for their own personal reasons, but for professional reasons I cannot not participate in such topics, as it becomes an unwelcome conflict of interest of sorts for me.

I also pretty much cease posting in a medium when such a pattern comes to a head. Where it can easily descend into heated arguments on company vs company and putting me on the defensive, in any given thread I'm regularly involved in. I have no choice but to stop posting, due to existing policies I abide by. Whether I agree or disagree on given matters.

I believe Toyota has something similar posted here for their own employees. I'm not here to discuss these kind of Ford matters and I hope people can respect that, since we are discussing the future of the 4Runner and TNGA-F vehicles, not why X and Y competitor is Z reason (good or bad).

In my personal view not representative of FMC, Jim F. has spent the last 2.5 years to right the Ford ship, having once worked for Toyota himself years ago. These things take time and everyone has to be on the same page too. Toyota has many of its own issues, which continue to appear as of late and I never make it my business to criticize them, not to mention I get annoyed at Blue Oval brethren in casual convo, who are ever so hypocritical to point fingers at Toyota and deride them, albeit sometimes immaturely. I'm fairly objective about everything I discuss and don't play favorites, outside of speaking with my dollars on vehicles I acquire.

I know a hell of a lot about both companies and one thing they both share, is there are two well known namesake families involved with them, unlike the rest of the core competition. (And ironically both luxury brands start with L)

I do not want to be discussing any controversial Ford related topic here and is why I stick to threads like this, which generally are focused solely on Toyota developments. I cannot do it objectively nor act as a official representative on the defense.



Thank you. I am just passing on internal insight, which matches other insight to the best of my knowledge. I recently was PMed by not just 1, but 2 users here that work for Toyota. They gave me a thumbs up. Off the clock, Toyota is not the enemy to me. In reality, I'd say that's more so GM and Tesla...



Ignore his nonsense, as he's obviously trolling. No one at Toyota agrees with him and everyone knows what's happening with the missed launch dates. Since last June, the 4Runner has been scheduled for MY 2025. From early 2021 to June 2022, it was MY 2024, halfway through the model year (got informed in June 2021).

From mid-2019 to early 2021, it was MY 2023, which is why you saw an early 2020 launch timetable showing it for CY 2022 launch alongside the Sequoia.

It was supposed to debut midsize TNGA-F first, but that ended up being the Tacoma and 180-Series vehicles.

It should've been updated with a second facelift sooner, but the amount of lead time involved to commit to + execute any type of MMC, is still measured in years (2-3). A redesigned 4Runner, when the 6th generation effort was resurrected 6-7 years ago, was coming no earlier than Q4 of 2021. It was targeted for 1 year after Tundra (October 2020) and 1-2 years after Land Cruiser 300 (originally late 2019-early 2020).

With both 300 Series and Tundra often being delayed in the late 2010s, anything below them had to be as well. Toyota wanted to announce the 2021 Tundra together with iForceMAX and when that fell behind, as well as struggling to implement that engine on the 300-Series, everything on TNGA-F fell behind 1 model year. Toyota has run into these kind of issues in the past, but is trying to better manage when model launches start overlapping too much.

Actually, Honda was very dumb squeezing so many new models into the 2023 model year, meaning they might risk fighting for resources at the same time later on. Between the Civic range in 2021, multiple versions of that, HR-V differing versions, CR-V, Accord, and Pilot, it was a damn mess.

That being said, Richie like many trolls is not here to discuss this in good faith, but in bad faith and center himself as the one who knows what's really happening, because the rest of you are somehow suckers. Well, he doesn't one bit unfortunately and such people arguing in bad faith are usually not worth the wasted time, in trying to steer them in the right direction.

He could've known it all on his own if he wanted to, but hasn't (I figure) and instead prefers to derail discussion like a common troll, as if he somehow discovered there's no cure for cancer and all the oncologists worldwide, should stop trying to treat cancer patients.

Toyota hides their internal missteps extremely well, but not always. I don't like to speak critically of any company, I just prefer to provide information on what I know is happening at the current point in time regarding future product. I'm not on here criticizing their slow adoption of BEVs nor lack of high-performance models, akin to Raptor, AMG (Lexus), or etc. Other people focus on that and rail them over the coals, forgetting Toyota delivers on many OTHER aspects.

The delays are related to internal missteps and the course correcting responses taking time to implement, plus shuffling around some model launches from the unexpected delays making model launches clash with each other.

The increasing sales of current N280 4Runner has been a nice cushion to fallback on, while Toyota finishes up its replacement vehicle. They didn't feel this was something to rely on a decade ago when they were ready to discontinue it on the belief ladder frame utilities had fallen out of favor in the Anglophone Western Hemisphere and Western Europe, with the only market for them being other markets, via future 300, Prado 180-Series, and next Fortuner. Sequoia, even GX, and 4Runner were as good as dead.

Well, the Sequoia was renewed at the same time the 4Runner was in 2015, but urgently needed some cosmetic attention for the 2018 model year after not being updated since launch in December 2007.

The decision to skip another big 4Runner refresh (MMC), after the big 2014 MY MMC, is one I can attribute to Toyota taking a wait and see approach, towards investing as little as possible before a FMC in late 2021.

With an end of 2021 JOB 1 date at the start of being greenlit for development over 5 years, the only MY for cosmetic updates would've been MY 2019 in late 2018. In late 2014, the 4Runner had no plans for a future like the FJ. Unlike the FJ, that would mean the entire N280 would be killed off, since the primary market was N. Amer in terms of justified volume.

The Prado got its second update for MY 2018 in September 2017, while GX and 4Runner were ignored and left untouched for 2018. They were supposed to be MY 2019 in late 2018.

What ended up happening was a much lighter second N280 MMC arrived late for 2020MY, in 2019 alongside the 2020MY Tacoma MMC (625B; nee 989A).

The redesigned 2022 4Runner (November 2021) and 2023 Tacoma (August 2022) had also just fallen behind in mid-2019 from the previous internal timeline to now October 2022 and September 2023 as the 2023 4Runner (930B) and 2024 Tacoma (920B). They completed design work on that new 4Runner originally in early 2020 and began prototype testing of the vehicle in North America, in early 2021. (Not sure if the design was reworked, because a design frozen in 2020 will be outdated in late 2024.)

During 2021, several midsize TNGA-F vehicles suffered more delays at different times of the year. In the first half of 2021, the Prado/GX/4Runner ended up being 2024 MY vehicles, alongside the 2024 Tacoma. The Tacoma got delayed from August 2023 Job 1 for late September launch, to December 2023 Job 1 for Winter 2024 launch.

The 4Runner itself was among the worst, going from Late Summer 2022 Job 1, 2023 MY to January 2024 Job 1, March 2024 launch as a 2024 MY. The 150-Series replacements were now scheduled to arrive in late 2023 before the 4Runner and no longer in parallel. Last May, I heard new correspondence everything was still coming along for January 2024 Job 1.

Then a few weeks later in June, I newly heard from my primary source, quite frantically of some pre-production 930 Program processes being shifted back exactly 6 months from July 2023 to January 2024. I was told this meant, July 2024 Job 1 for MY 2025. I don't know exactly when Toyota begins pilot production as a standard measure, but it is usually half a year before SOP at most OEMs.

For now, that's what will happen. September 2024 launch. If it changes again, I have no control over it and will report it privately only going forward to anyone I want to share it with.

As of recent, per a Plano HQ source:

4Runner, Tacoma, Land Cruiser Prado, and GX are coming to North America through the end of 2024. There should be no complaints about them, when everything becomes public.

No single pessimist trying to pout and shout gloom and doom, will undermine that reality LOL. In fact, I think I'll address that privately, so that this doesn't affect my ability to be confided in...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Z View Post
Thanks again Carmaker! I wouldn't put too much stock into Richie (or any others) because many of their comments are void of actual content. It's usually just something snarky without any actual information. Most of us can see right through it.

When you say Lexus LX update, any chance it is to fix the (IMO) ugly ass grill? I would consider the vehicle because I wanted a LC300 but just hate the front so much.

My next hope is the GX550 but concerned it too will be "grill fest 2024". Any word on what the grill will be? You mentioned it was to compete against the Defender so I'm pumped about it. (If the defender was a toyota product I would own one but just couldn't pull the trigger knowing their history of less that stellar reliability)

I'm also very interested in the new LC and appreciate the time you take to fill us in. I tried calling my local Toyota to get on a list but they aren't doing anything like that.

Thanks again CM - love long and prosper, and keep spilling the beans.
You should turn down your sensitivity setting there pal. No one was calling your baby ugly. In fact your postings are just mildly entertaining to me and thats about it.

Posting huge rants spewing all kind of psycho-babble isn't very good for your image either.

Finally, just as an fyi, I would be careful with what you are posting. Its very likely you are being monitored (almost for sure according to the people I know) and you and your "sources" could find yourselves unemployed and blacklisted in the auto industry, at the wrong end of a lawsuit or in jail.
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Old 03-21-2023, 03:12 PM #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
As far as powertrain, I think @Jetboy is right about what to expect as far as how the powertrain is oriented. We won't see numbers that directly match the Grand Highlander hybrid max powertrain. That powertrain makes use of 2 electric motors and since this is TNGA-F, we will get similar to what Tundra and Sequoia have as far as how the drive train is laid out. 2.4T > electric motor > 8-10 speed transmission > transfer case > front rear prop shafts > diffs > axles. The Grand Highlander has more flexibility for how they shuttle power around since the front drivetrain is only connected to the rear drivetrain electrically and being able to send that electrical power to 2 different electric motors at the same time does have torque benefits.

I think they will target a mid 6 second 0-60. That is plenty fast for what the typical 4Runner buyer is looking for and a ~1 sec improvement over the 5th gen. I think they can reasonably get real world mpg up 20-30% with the 2.4T and hybrid. I'm getting around 19 right now in my Pro, so I think a jump to 24 isn't unreasonable.

I think Toyota will have no choice but go LiIon on the 4Runner and Land Cruiser hybrids, though. The Tundra and Sequoia make use of inexpensive but space inefficient NiMh batteries. They are huge vehicles, so they have some volume to spare. On the flip side, those big batteries really do intrude into the passenger space (Sequoia especially).
I think that's entirely doable on the next generation, as long as they move away from the 3.5L and 4.0L N/A V6's. For reference, the massive, heavy new Sequoia is EPA rated 19/22/20mpg in 4WD form, with a turbo hybrid V6 makes oodles of torque. It's reasonable to think that if that same powertrain were put in a somewhat smaller vehicle, it could probably eek out at least 1mpg more all the way around, maybe 2. And if we ditch the hybrid gear? Then in the new Tundra, it appears that the turbo V6 4WD non-hybrid gets 17/22/19mpg.

We'll see what they do. I think it's likely to be the 2.4L turbo-four, with optional or mandatory hybrid. I have been curious if the new 3.4L turbo Tundra V6, with or without the turbos, could be a possibility.

Whatever it is, it will definitely manage better than 16/19/17mpg. If I'm not mistaken, the 2023 4Runner is EPA-rated lower than any new normal half-ton truck.
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Old 03-21-2023, 04:52 PM #660
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Some new info coming about the US/Canada Land Cruiser soon.

Need a couple days to firm up details, but stay tuned.
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