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Old 04-05-2022, 09:17 AM #16
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Thanks @Carmaker1 , I've also enjoyed your insights on Tacomaworld as well. I'm still undecided between Tacoma and 4Runner, and although I'd like to wait for the new Gens I need to do something sooner than later. Your knowledge is always appreciated and helpful in my decision.
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Old 04-05-2022, 10:13 AM #17
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Is the new 4Runner program code 610L?

Quality Issues? We Have Support Available at Toyota Guanajutao!
Quality Issues? We Have Support Available at Toyota Tecate, MX!

Based off this link it looks like Jan 2023 begins production of the new Taco and Jan 2024 for 610L (4Runner?) at Guanajuato, and Dec 2023 for Taco production at Baja California.

Falls right in line with @Carmaker1 's statements. The dude's been accurate before and yet no one believes him, I get his frustration.
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Old 04-05-2022, 10:46 AM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balong48 View Post
Is the new 4Runner program code 610L?

Quality Issues? We Have Support Available at Toyota Guanajutao!
Quality Issues? We Have Support Available at Toyota Tecate, MX!

Based off this link it looks like Jan 2023 begins production of the new Taco and Jan 2024 for 610L (4Runner?) at Guanajuato, and Dec 2023 for Taco production at Baja California.

Falls right in line with @Carmaker1 's statements. The dude's been accurate before and yet no one believes him, I get his frustration.
Very interesting links, thank you, I wonder what the (2) after 610L could mean. Two shifts, two production lines, two sub-models, such as a 2 door and 4 door, or ?

610L(2) | January 2024 – December 2032
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Old 04-05-2022, 11:19 AM #19
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Very interesting links, thank you, I wonder what the (2) after 610L could mean. Two shifts, two production lines, two sub-models, such as a 2 door and 4 door, or ?

610L(2) | January 2024 – December 2032
Quality Issues? We Have Resident Liaisons Available at TMMTX in Texas!

That I'm not sure of. If you take a look at the San Antonio plant, you see 660B (2022 Sequoia) and 780B (3rd Gen Tunrda). In upcoming, you see 780B(2), which to me would say refresh. Toyota went 7 years before refreshing the last Tundra so that's believable. Based on other plants it looks like the (2) follows the refresh trend, but I don't follow Toyota's refresh/redesign of other vehicles too closely, so I can't be confident in saying that.

However, given 610L(2) is a new line there and (based on some Googling) doesn't appear to be a past Toyota program code I am not sure.

@Carmaker1 might be able to give more insight.
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Old 04-05-2022, 08:04 PM #20
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However, given 610L(2) is a new line there and (based on some Googling) doesn't appear to be a past Toyota program code I am not sure.
Interestingly, found this Googling:

https://libraetd.lib.virginia.edu/do...e_Xin_2015.pdf

It's someone's thesis about airbags or something. But there's a table in there that references the "Data collection of vehicle fleets equipped with knee airbag in the U.S market."

In the table, it refers to the 2009 (I think this is actually referring to the 5th gen 2010 MY) "4-Runner/Hilux Surf" with a model code of "610L"
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Old 04-05-2022, 10:41 PM #21
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Hello everyone, sorry for the late response. I will address everyone, sometime later tonight or tomorrow. Been very busy as usual and trying to keep up with daily work. I'll be back here ASAP.
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Old 04-07-2022, 09:49 AM #22
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Old 04-07-2022, 12:42 PM #23
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I only have confirmation of the I4 hybrid and turbo I4. V6 is new info passed onto me, not well known from what I can see elsewhere. I'll be waiting to see how that goes...
I always appreciate your info. It's easy to just look back at the media sources and see if they were right or wrong on past predictions. Your info has always been reliable, so I find it very credible.

I think the TTv6 makes sense as a late addition. Toyota is just falling so far behind by sitting on these models for so long. They haven't done a ground up re-design since 2002. And everyone else will be offering far more powerful engine options, many of which also likely get better mpg. It seems reasonable that Toyota has been forced to make major drivetrain upgrades late in design process due to the known competition and the disappointing performance of its TNGA transmission based hybrid system.

We know the Bronco already has some powerful engine options, and the new Ranger will have the TTv6 with 400hp. The Wrangler has the big V8 now, but will almost certainly get the TTI6 engine. And the GM twins will at a minimum get the 2.7 turbo 4 and it's a lot more powerful than Toyota's TT 2.4 4cyl. So I don't think a 270hp turbo 4 as the top engine will be competitive in 2025 when everyone else has 350-400hp.

I hope that the rumor of a TTv6 tacoma or 4Runner is true. It's hard to see how Toyota can offer only the 2.4 turbo or a NA I4 hybrid based on the system in the Tundra.
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Old 04-07-2022, 02:35 PM #24
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Sadly this confirms that it's time for me to move on from Toyota/Lexus. I was considering holding out for a GX. But waiting until 26 or 27 is just not realistic for us (we won't buy the first year or two of a car).
Still in no rush to do it bc of the mess that car sales/supplies are right now, but it definitely won't be a Toyota.
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Old 04-07-2022, 02:57 PM #25
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Sadly this confirms that it's time for me to move on from Toyota/Lexus. I was considering holding out for a GX. But waiting until 26 or 27 is just not realistic for us (we won't buy the first year or two of a car).
Still in no rush to do it bc of the mess that car sales/supplies are right now, but it definitely won't be a Toyota.
Yeah especially with Mike Sweers driving the program I don't blame you. Not sure if it's a coincidence but he can't seem to do vehicle launches smoothly. First year of the Taco redesign was rough and the new Tundra is looking like a shit show too. This will be the first 4Runner redesign (outside of the 5th gen refresh) where Sweers is behind the program and it scares me. Took them what five years to dial in the engine/transmission tuning on the Taco? They do seem pretty issue free now otherwise.

I did have a first model year 4th gen that was relatively issue free, the rust is where things went wrong. It was pretty flawless otherwise.
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Old 04-07-2022, 05:33 PM #26
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Yeah especially with Mike Sweers driving the program I don't blame you. Not sure if it's a coincidence but he can't seem to do vehicle launches smoothly. First year of the Taco redesign was rough and the new Tundra is looking like a shit show too. This will be the first 4Runner redesign (outside of the 5th gen refresh) where Sweers is behind the program and it scares me. Took them what five years to dial in the engine/transmission tuning on the Taco? They do seem pretty issue free now otherwise.

I did have a first model year 4th gen that was relatively issue free, the rust is where things went wrong. It was pretty flawless otherwise.
I'd love to know more about how much influence he has as the lead on the program. Does Toyota say - "You can have this engine, this transmission, and this platform. Go make it look like a truck" or does Toyota C suite folks say "go build a tundra, take whatever you want from the parts bin or develop new, here's a budget, go make something great."

In the first situation, maybe he can't do anything if he's forced to only use the 3.5/6AT, has to keep the shared suspension parts, and has to meet an EPA target, maybe that's the best he could do. At that point he's basically just there for the styling and engineering of seats and windows, etc. Not the real stuff like frame designs, engines, transmissions, axles etc.

If someone said - "You get the 1GR and A750F and you have to use the 150 platform to build an SUV for $35-45k price range and it needs to be a 3 row." I'd be jumping up and down on my boss' desk to let me put at least an 8 speed transmission in and either a v8 or a turbo 6. But if they said no - what else could you do? If those were the constraints, I think the 4Runner is about as good as you could make it.

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Old 04-07-2022, 07:24 PM #27
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I'd love to know more about how much influence he has as the lead on the program. Does Toyota say - "You can have this engine, this transmission, and this platform. Go make it look like a truck" or does Toyota C suite folks say "go build a tundra, take whatever you want from the parts bin or develop new, here's a budget, go make something great." As far as the "base" engine goes probably not much.Given the V35A-FTS is used in Lexus cars first, I think he was handed this engine and was told to make a truck engine out of it. From what it sounds like while they are both V35A-FTS engines, but the Tundra variant has some substantial differences. With the "Dynamic Force" engine family and the GA platforms Toyota's goal was to reduce the amount of engines being produced and increase sharing between models.

In the first situation, maybe he can't do anything if he's forced to only use the 3.5/6AT, has to keep the shared suspension parts, and has to meet an EPA target, maybe that's the best he could do. At that point he's basically just there for the styling and engineering of seats and windows, etc. Not the real stuff like frame designs, engines, transmissions, axles etc. I'm guessing the 2GR-FKS was Toyota basically saying "here have fun with this one figure it out" and that he didn't have much say in the matter. I'd wager it was sort of a stop-gap solution since the GA-F platform wasn't originally supposed to be this far out. So I guess that wasn't really his fault. 4Runner was on the chopping block so they probably didn't want to spend the money to bring it over. QA/QC wise is where I'm worried. The V35A-FTS looks to be fine in the Lexus models.

If someone said - "You get the 1GR and A750F and you have to use the 150 platform to build an SUV for $35-45k price range and it needs to be a 3 row." I'd be jumping up and down on my boss' desk to let me put at least an 8 speed transmission in and either a v8 or a turbo 6. But if they said no - what else could you do? If those were the constraints, I think the 4Runner is about as good as you could make it.
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Old 04-07-2022, 08:09 PM #28
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I think the primary difference between the two V35A models is in the airbox and exhaust. The LS version has particulate filters in the exhaust that the Tundra doesn't need to. And the LS IIRC has a secondary airbox flap that opens under WOT where the Tundra does not. And the LS is also tuned for 91 octane vs 87 in the Tundra. Those changes are my bet as to why we see the different output between them.

A far as the waste gate issue - probably just a manufacturing error in the linkage from the sounds of it. Supposedly the linkage can be installed backward and it will function normally. Not sure if that's true. It's something that should be easy to correct if that's the real issue. But we won't know for a few years if there are other big problems.
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Old 04-08-2022, 10:10 AM #29
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I think the primary difference between the two V35A models is in the airbox and exhaust. The LS version has particulate filters in the exhaust that the Tundra doesn't need to. And the LS IIRC has a secondary airbox flap that opens under WOT where the Tundra does not. And the LS is also tuned for 91 octane vs 87 in the Tundra. Those changes are my bet as to why we see the different output between them.

A far as the waste gate issue - probably just a manufacturing error in the linkage from the sounds of it. Supposedly the linkage can be installed backward and it will function normally. Not sure if that's true. It's something that should be easy to correct if that's the real issue. But we won't know for a few years if there are other big problems.
I thought there was a bit more but it's been a while since I've seen the video explaining the differences. I'd have to watch that again.

Either way hopefully Toyota figures it out and can get it resolved and carry the lessons learned over to the new Taco and 4Runner. I won't be in the market for one until 2025-2026 so hopefully they'll have the 4Runner dialed in for the 2025/6 MY
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Old 04-08-2022, 04:44 PM #30
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Yeah especially with Mike Sweers driving the program I don't blame you. Not sure if it's a coincidence but he can't seem to do vehicle launches smoothly. First year of the Taco redesign was rough and the new Tundra is looking like a shit show too. This will be the first 4Runner redesign (outside of the 5th gen refresh) where Sweers is behind the program and it scares me. Took them what five years to dial in the engine/transmission tuning on the Taco? They do seem pretty issue free now otherwise.
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Toyota is just falling so far behind by sitting on these models for so long. They haven't done a ground up re-design since 2002. And everyone else will be offering far more powerful engine options, many of which also likely get better mpg. It seems reasonable that Toyota has been forced to make major drivetrain upgrades late in design process due to the known competition and the disappointing performance of its TNGA transmission based hybrid system.
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I thought there was a bit more but it's been a
Either way hopefully Toyota figures it out and can get it resolved and carry the lessons learned over to the new Taco and 4Runner. I won't be in the market for one until 2025-2026 so hopefully they'll have the 4Runner dialed in for the 2025/6 MY
I've been looking forward to owning a new 6th gen 4Runner for a some time, but now with all the reliability issues Toyota is having with the new TGNA platform Tundra, I'm really starting to have my doubts if that is a smart move. I don't mine waiting for the 2nd year to work out the bugs, but that no longer seems possible, maybe the 3rd or 4th year.

You have to wonder if Toyota has the capability any longer to build a reliable, new release vehicle. Is it a basic lack of talent in the design and testing process or is Mike Sweers pressured by Toyota corporate to squeeze budgets and deadlines, like every other American vehicle manufacturer.
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