Quote:
Originally Posted by John in NC
So the 5th gen continues until 2024.5?
I was just told 2023 at our local Toyota dealer, but it was a service tech so maybe he didn't know, or couldn't say.
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DO NOT TRUST him lol. These folks are sometimes curious themselves, but do not try to think out of the box and realize a lot of info online, isn't really accurate if there isn't a corporate source or someone close enough (like me) behind it, to verify it to be correct.
If I wasn't set straight by some people on this project and/or working for Toyota as an in-house employee, I would've continued with stating 2023MY, as I first mentioned in February 2020. Once someone told me "2024" and explained his background, I trusted him and didn't put up a fuss. I checked with my own circle, they confirmed it.
I've since tried to correct myself and accept blame for not being up to speed on recent changes, but I am often ignored when I try to pass on this insight.
(
What happens with other people now is, they simply don't listen and carry on with the wrong belief. Not only that, the really loud ones, "front page" (spread around) their false information through multiple mediums online and anyone who doesn't know better, trusts it over the correct narrative.
Right now, many folks are expecting a redesigned Tacoma this fall and that hasn't been the case for some 3 years internally. All because they saw some Toyota endorsed spy shots last autumn and then assumed = out in 1 year.
It's because of TFL and the like on YouTube, who get giddy and don't think it through. Yet they keep this false hype going and dismiss warnings of others more informed than them. They want privileged emails from sources like me, providing my personal details and insider documentation/visuals.
I value my privacy and don't like them for my own reasons, but don't mind setting them on the right track, being that they have a large audience trusting them.
I criticized TFL's poor reporting and the moderator banned me out of petty insecurity.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd308
It's not surprising that people who have been waiting...begging.....pleading.....dreaming for a new 4-runner that would not be 5 years behind everyone else's off road offerings in tech/power/features would want to believe earlier dates for what keeps them awake at night. Also, I'd imagine those making $ off car videos, rumors etc. get a lot more views/$ if every few months they tease something that's been highly anticipated for years as opposed to telling people it won't be out for 3 more years.
Honestly after seeing the new Sequoia TRD Pro, I'm almost scared to see the 4r now. The massive loss of cargo space for the hybrid/ tundra rear end and non-removable 3rd row seats is a strait up deal breaker. It's literally losing probably 25% of cargo space in a giant SUV.....the one thing people buy a giant SUV for. It would be like a 3/4 ton pickup that only has 5000 lbs of towing capacity. Also the continuing the trend of not putting features on the TRD Pro trim that other cheaper trims get (1990's sunroof instead of the pano roof, no HUD, no ventilated seats, etc.) seems like Toyota completely lost touch with what a large SUV is. I don't know why internet rumor seems to be that the Sequia was going away so they shoved as much Tundra stuff as they could in it and hoped for the best.
It's almost like Toyota uses the 4r as a social experiment to see how much they can convince people to sacrifice compared to other options but still charge $55k for. Just look at all the features left out of the 4r TRD Pro compared to the Limited trim, yet the TRD pro is $5k more than the limited trim. Heck you can get a ton more features/tech on the Rav 4 for less than $40k (360 cameras, smartkey, digital rear view mirror, heated steering wheel, rain sense de-icing wipers, panoroof, the list goes on).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qs933
You mean everything posted on the Internet isn't true? Color me surprised.
In defense of those who truly wanted to believe a 2023 MY release date (myself included), any possible sign that 2023 was "the year" just added fuel to that fire.
I've temporarily gotten sidetracked with the bZ4X. If I was David from Automotive Press, I'd mention that I have a deposit on it.
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It's one thing to hope, but it's another to whine and complain there's no info out there, in expecting Toyota or some magazine/site to hand out that info to you (not you specifically) on a platter. The magazines know little to nada and Toyota is not going to publicize such information in most cases. You gotta look for it very well or listen to/ask someone who does know.
And if and when someone who does know otherwise, tells them a specific timeline a little further out, citing inside sources, they dismiss them and complain "you ain't no YouTuber like..." or "show me the receipts", which at that point it just says enough about someone's obtuse and stubborn outlook. They liken themselves to smart skeptics, yet never hold any of these YT personalities nor credibility-bereft websites accountable in the same respect.
That is a large majority I encounter and frankly, I'm basically done, because I expect better from people. I've seen people with much more common sense in some spaces, especially one of the first forums I joined as an undergrad, centered around the big German 3.
Anyway, my issue with so many of these types, they are ready to trust some amateur with Wifi and a webcam, who might have nothing to do with Toyota. Yet someone who is likely a lot more informed and even mentions key program codes, they cast them off, simply because they aren't clickbait webcam jockeys.
I cannot feel sorry for such people if they get their hopes up and are later let down, by their own ignorance missing earlier cues from me or anyone else trying to lead them in the right direction.
Most of the commentary here is pretty sensible and on track, observant of the changes happening with Gen 6 development. It's the folks outside of here, who often don't make any real effort to find out concrete info and yet think, they can comment with authority on what is or isn't happening. Particularly when they absolutely know nothing and thus are misleading other people, to the point it starts to discredit me.
I keep things low key as an actively working industry member bound to my own set of NDAs and the like. It doesn't serve me well to be drawing unwanted attention to myself nor any of my sources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwatch
I doubt Toyota would have added the features (RCTA, BSM, MTM) to the 2022 MY if they were planning a complete redesign the next year. They aren't a company known for throwing options at us.
Carmakers claim that the 4R will be made in Japan and Mexico until Mexico gets up and running makes a lot of sense. I believe the 4R will be a very similar to the Tacoma. Almost back to the old days of the 4R being a Tacoma SUV. It will make sense to build it in the same factory just like they moved the Sequoia to the Tundra plant. I don't think they will be able to recreate the level of quality and reliability that they have at the Tahara plant.
One issue coming up might be the govt's zero emission laws. Canada has said all vehicles must be zero emission by 2035. Not sure what the US has for a timeline but it can't be much different. We may only a few years of an ICE/hybrid engine in the 4R then it might be fully electric.
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The styling changes to the 6th Generation 4Runner were originally supposed to evolutionary per my intel in early 2020, when it was still a 2023 model. Some of the weird stuff I've heard lately, contradicts that. Plus a REALLY nice interior is coming!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasFunRunner
Carmaker1, thank you so much for keeping us updated with your insight, keep up the great work!
Unfortunately, the click warriors on youtube are not going away, rumors and speculation get clicks, the truth be damned, just ignore them.
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Thank you, I appreciate that TexasFunRunner, but enough clowns out there do not and their ignorant BS, drowns out the effort that myself and a few others make, to keep people apprised of what's happening.
It becomes such a wasteful effort, if for every 10-20 of you being wise (on your own in many cases too), there are people who come out and parrot bad information, as if the obvious wasn't already mentioned.
It's gobsmacking how stupid folks can be on YouTube for one and garner a large audience for it. Casual (automotive) entertainment is an entirely separate matter, from someone using their uninformed opinion to spew nonsense.
Especially dimwits like RobMotive, for instance. And the associated viewers, who engage with someone like that, as if they are a well informed individual who has any iota of credibility on that subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasFunRunner
John, my son-in-law is a Toyota Master service tech and friends with the service manager. I'm always asking him, have you heard anything on the 6th gen 4Runner, the answer is always the same, absolutely nothing. Anything you are hearing from a service tech is just their personal speculation.
I'm pretty sure Toyota keeps the dealerships in the dark for as much and as long possible, as they want them selling what is available today not what may or may not be available in future.
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Thanks.
It's very hard to ignore that, when it begins to dominate the conversation and drown out more credible information long term. The I-Told-You-So game is rearing its ugly head now, only after a YouTuber revealed by Toyota NY region dealers, that nothing TNGA-F body on frame outside of the 2023 Sequoia, is launching in 2022.
Despite that, you still have many folks making the dumb excuse in other videos, "Toyota is just keeping the 2023 4Runner a surprise". Instead of being cast out as the bad reasoning it is, it is being co-signed by many likes, plus the channel vlogger endorsing the claim as "credible".
To be frank, there is no way any other 2023 MY redesigns would be omitted from such a sheet, unless launching in CY2023 as 2023.5 or 2024MY vehicles. Surprises do not work for people training others to sell your future product and order more inventory.
YouTube is simply a huge factor in this issue and so is stupid TFL. People want easy info to access, without vetting it to be credible. Yet jump on the next person (me) poking a hole in those front page claims, in attempts to redirect them, being that the information is not sourced from a person privy to key insight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado buff
First off, thanks for your insight.
Second, who cares if random internet people donÂ’t agree, itÂ’s the internet.
Third, IÂ’m actually happy itÂ’s delayed it gives Toyota a chance to get it right.
Lastly,
Questions for you if you donÂ’t mind:
I love the third gen size and style. Think they might go with a retro styling like when the mustang went back to the iconic shape and sold a ton?
You mentioned an i4 engine, will their be an option for a hybrid?
Will they do anything to limit Rusting for those of us that arenÂ’t lucky enough to live in California
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Unfortunately, it's hard to continue ignoring, as I don't have the time to be wasting on getting such info out there, if way too many folks don't listen and instead make it worse, by constantly contradicting me and passing bad rumors around for others to easily trust.
A lot of them just don't bother to look around for new information and then complain about not knowing anything.
I had this issue with Nissan, when I knew a great deal about future product and wouldn't be taken seriously, until it was too late. I mentioned 400Z was not the real name 2 years ago IIRC, it was "Z", and got insulted many times over that, until Nissan officially announced Z in 2021. I had seen the car in 2019, as a design model behind closed doors and part of a Nissan presentation in early 2019. Dumb skepticism like that gets pretty old quick...
I never had this problem with German brands on German Car Forum, because the German companies are very transparent anyway to a reasonable degree for marketing purposes and easily aid anything I divulge as a matter of fact, with quick succession. Most of the people who follow German cars in such spaces, are thus used to the patterns of German automakers and predicting how they operate.
The American automotive press tends to be more eager to cover German developments with greater accuracy, than the indifferent laziness and obtuseness I see from them when it comes to anything Japanese or "Tier 2" in their eyes.
Toyota and Japanese automakers being so secretive, makes for me looking like I am talking about unicorns 24/7.
When I first posted here 5 years ago, the amount of vitriol directed my way was really rough around the edges, by some of those types I mentioned above (in disdain), being very present on this forum then. It's night and day today thankfully LOL.
Toyota's nature also makes it different to pass on, behind the scenes information successfully, which often hasn't been publicized yet.
As for the design, I'm not gonna be able to comment on the exterior at this point to that level of detail. To my knowledge, I had been told it was evolutionary in exterior design (like most TNGA redesigns). The interior is VERY luxurious though, from what I do hear! Very well executed from what I've been told and a bit tech laden.
And although 3rd generation might be considered iconic, it's not a main template for them to follow, when all generations still loosely follow the 2nd generation N150 design anyway. It's all about different ways to evolve that lineage.
I am not going to know that level of product planning at all, in regards to rust proofing nor would it come to mind, for me to ask someone on the project. This is a major redesign so it would make sense to align everything needed correctly, but I doubt the 5G N280 has these problems?
Yes, hybrid is an I4. I politely haven't pushed to know more about it, but it has a full EV mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Z
Great info, thanks for sharing!
Any additional info on the GX? Will it show up first?
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Certainly, thanks Dave. You're not a Mopar guy by chance are you? Name seems familiar...
GX 550 is as I mentioned before. Takes on the mantle of Lexus's principal 4x4 utility vehicle and launches in early 2024, with a much boxier design according to those who been shown it since February 2021. There will be a GX550h as well. Both TTV6. You can see how far ahead of these cars are designed, by that first showcase being 3 years ahead! Many folks think I am talking jive at times, when I mentioned cars are designed very early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn_85
@ Carmaker1
I'd be curious as well if you knew anything about the next GX. I think its the GX550? Any truth to the rumor that it's going to be a bit more boxy and masculine looking...like a Defender. If so they can take my money right now.
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I initiated that rumor I believe, as it was a secret among Lexus insiders prior to that. It's true and the design was already finished as early as 2020. It is targeting that Defender market directly though, but might still be a bit more buttoned up than the Defender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasFunRunner
Very interesting links, thank you, I wonder what the (2) after 610L could mean. Two shifts, two production lines, two sub-models, such as a 2 door and 4 door, or ?
610L(2) | January 2024 – December 2032
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You are such a keen observer to have even found this, haha. This is what I want for people, to catch stuff like this and be way ahead of everyone else, without being too obvious (to Toyota). Let me explain: That is a placeholder code of 610L (2), being for the actual 6G 4Runner. Being that this is one of those industry sites on a lower level, who has access to similar information I do. This is mostly correct info and they have similar information on other companies, which is somewhat concerning in some respects.
5th Generation debuted in November 2009 as 610L.
Quote:
Originally Posted by balong48
Quality Issues? We Have Resident Liaisons Available at TMMTX in Texas!
That I'm not sure of. If you take a look at the San Antonio plant, you see 660B (2022 Sequoia) and 780B (3rd Gen Tunrda). In upcoming, you see 780B(2), which to me would say refresh. Toyota went 7 years before refreshing the last Tundra so that's believable. Based on other plants it looks like the (2) follows the refresh trend, but I don't follow Toyota's refresh/redesign of other vehicles too closely, so I can't be confident in saying that.
However, given 610L(2) is a new line there and (based on some Googling) doesn't appear to be a past Toyota program code I am not sure.
@ Carmaker1
might be able to give more insight.
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I'm aware of this, but how y'all found it is something else. An open secret to some degree, which does match some stuff planned officially.
Yes, I'll answer this:
780B (2) is a placeholding development code, for the successor to 780B aka the 3rd generation Tundra, developed as that. (2) is a redesigned vehicle. Typically this information is not public.
610L (2) refers to the replacement for 610L (5th generation 4Runner), being built in Guanajuato, Mexico from January 2024. Tahara is not shown for reasons chosen by Toyota, to not disclose production schedules for JPN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qs933
Interestingly, found this Googling:
https://libraetd.lib.virginia.edu/do...e_Xin_2015.pdf
It's someone's thesis about airbags or something. But there's a table in there that references the "Data collection of vehicle fleets equipped with knee airbag in the U.S market."
In the table, it refers to the 2009 (I think this is actually referring to the 5th gen 2010 MY) "4-Runner/Hilux Surf" with a model code of "610L"
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Wow, you connected the dots! This, this is WHAT I hope for owners curious and in the dark on the future. Catching these things and piecing it together, like I used to do (and still do for competitive research).
And not just take some YouTubers word for it. This is the issue I have with them, lack of research ability on a semi-unknown entity. You put that together, 9 out 10 YTers or journalists, can't even do that and it's disappointing.
I've known that the development code for the 2010 4Runner N280 was
610L, which Toyota cleverly uses to mask the identity of a project. It's a formal codename, which eschews the production model/chassis code of N280. 150-Series Land Cruiser Prado was
611L. J150 GX460 was
837L IIRC.
Keep finding stuff like this in the most random places, you'll find a lot more even without access to industry databases or supplier network info. I wish folks knew how much is somewhat out there, if you use the right code words to track them.