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Old 04-01-2022, 09:08 AM #1
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Angry Dimwitted (Media) Speculation

Good morning,

Every day, as a young automotive professional and enthusiast, I am pained and unnervingly frustrated by the immense levels of stupidity I encounter in some sections of the internet, regarding automotive discussion amongst the public.

Especially regarding Toyota's future product line, and more specifically, the body on frame TNGA-F modular architecture, recently launched in the Land Cruiser, new Tundra, Lexus LX, and in July, the Sequoia.

I was among a select few, 5-6 years ago, who brought this future architecture's existence to the global forefront, before Toyota even acknowledged it existed in 2021. No one knew about it outside of Toyota in 2016, nor did most journalists first mention it until 2019.


For a good 2 years now, I believe myself and some members here, have done a job of keeping us all informed on WHEN Toyota comes to market with the next 4Runner and Tacoma.

When things fell behind at any step, I pointed out these newly learned delays, with a grain of salt. I began to trust it as credible insight, considering the sources.

By a certain point, I had idiotic refutations from randoms trying to undermine the 4Runner delay to MY2024 as not being accurate and MY2023 to still be accurate.

Since June 2021, I was strongly skeptical of 2023, until some idiots in the sales body claimed I was wrong recently and cited dealer meetings they had attended in September 2021.

Well, I was wrong to acknowledge them, being that I had it directly from the horses' mouths, the real truth...

Toyota began planning of a 6th generation 4Runner for the 2022 model year, roughly 5 years ago. When that fell behind via a domino effect in 2019, it shifted to second half of 2022 as a MY 2023.

This CY2022 launch information appeared in an internal January 2020 PowerPoint presentation, which appeared here weeks later. Prior to that, I had ghostwritten news articles on future Ford, Lexus, and Toyota products through 2024. This became known to the public in February 2020 and later copied by All Car News in March 2020.

2023MY redesign was valid much of 2020.

When new internal ambitions were envisioned for this program in late 2020 regarding EV mode on its THS, it became MY 2024, ironically toward the 40th anniversary of its March 1984 launch. I declared this to be likely, last June. And have done my best to get out the word.

Yet, so many stupid YouTubers go around spreading misleading BS info and confusing countless amounts of people, who either are so busy and looking in the wrong places for information on things TNGA-F for a quick fix.

Or so willfully obtuse, they lazily trust the wrong sources for insight and are too incorrigible to learn from it, that these entities know nada in most cases, as they don't have internal personnel guiding their narrative.

The little incognito efforts I provide in my free time, to steer the ship straight on misinformation, amount to wasted effort, since too many folks are woefully stupid and still trust these ignorant vloggers, bloggers, and news hacks fishing for easy clicks.

I've stopped commenting on these vehicles until now, because I got sick of the wasted time on my part.

Folks tried to say I didn't know what I was talking about regarding both 4Runner and Tacoma redesigns having 2024 all over them. The minute they saw spy shots of midsize Toyota mules, the idiot-laden media jumped up to calling the next one a 2023 MY.

They do not understand a mule with old skin or even a bodyshell tester can be built and tested for 2 years, before that model hits dealers.

I stood by my insight and refuted such claims of "sooner than later".

You have channels like Automotive Press, RobMotive, TFL, and a few others making the matter of misinformation worse, with their blind speculation leading nowhere in most cases or in AP's case, riffing off of unconfirmed guesses like the Sequoia liftgate window somehow equaling the same for 6G without any proof of it.

David at AP has this horrible habit of hiding behind his similar credentials as an engineer, yet stooping to misinforming people with dumb guesses of his as misbegotten fact.

I warned him last year it was now a 2024 model and the Tacoma was not a 2023 model either, both are 2024s. He didn't listen and doubled down on that drivel.

He embarrassingly tried to save face earlier this year, when it started becoming obvious I KNEW what I was talking about and then WHAM, the NY area dealers gave it away via YouTuber Driven District (thanks to him).

Only YouTuber to be wise on this was TRDJON, props to him for being way ahead of the rest and probably open to my insight. I don't know how he picked up on that, good for him. The rest...(sighs)

I really try to be helpful, but I can't help people who don't want to know better from the right sources and waste time with mindless skepticism, while openly entertaining drivel from TFL and the like.

Particularly those of us on forums or commenting incognito elsewhere, who are able to find (or already have) the right internal contacts and report our findings discreetly. Plus will only come to where it is worthwhile regarding our time, to disclose background info without exposing our identities.

Being still somewhat young, I just didn't realize for years how dumb and uninformed people can be, when a good chunk of this information is out there and accessible.

It took Youtuber Driven District leaking the NY region dealers' launch schedule for Calendar Year 2022 to prove me right and yet, you still have many idiots, hypothesizing that Toyota will discontinue the 4Runner based on their own brainless intuition, replace it with a brawny Highlander trim, or etc. (That concern is outdated)

Or magically surprise them out of nowhere in a few months with a new 2023 model. I have said countless times in different places for 1 year, it will be midway through MY 2024 at earliest. Yet it falls on deaf ears in many places.

In terms of human nature, I am puzzled as to why it's so difficult for some people to pick up on the obvious more readily and not have their heads in the sand. When I covered the Bronco years ago, you had your share of idiots bypassing my attempts to set the narrative straight. Just seems like it even gets worse.

What I see now on YT, TFL, Disqus, and on some other forums, is disheartening in terms of gross cluelessness and the dumbest unproven contradictory theories being put out there and trusted (with no/little skepticism), becoming fodder for never ending rumors, which easily muddle a correct discreet narrative.

I'm tired of it at this point, as their only skepticism is often directed at me or similar folks as the messenger. Most uninformed folks should know better or shut up if they don't, to avoid confusing others. And stop attacking the right messengers, with inside information.

This vehicle as I said it before, is a 2024.5ish model. It will offer an I4 hybrid as mentioned to me by someone on the project, although someone else has also mentioned to me that a tune of the V35A-FTS will be making its way into the 920B Tacoma and likely 4Runner by parallel association. I think of GX 550, when that comes up.

Last edited by Carmaker1; 04-01-2022 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Typos, sorry.
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Old 04-01-2022, 11:31 AM #2
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That was a great overview, thanks for the write up. What does 5ish mean? And do you think the 2023 that should land this fall will be exactly the same as the '22 with a new color?


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Old 04-01-2022, 11:41 AM #3
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Old 04-01-2022, 01:19 PM #4
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Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
This vehicle as I said it before, is a 2024.5ish model. It will have offer an I4 hybrid as mentioned to me by someone on the project, although someone else has also mentioned to me that a tune of the V35A-FTS will be making its way into the 920B Tacoma and likely 4Runner by parallel association.

Can we expect a hybrid based on the 2.4 turbo as base engine and the V6 turbo as optional engine? Production will be moved to Mexico is it still confirmed?
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:20 PM #5
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So the 5th gen continues until 2024.5?
I was just told 2023 at our local Toyota dealer, but it was a service tech so maybe he didn't know, or couldn't say.
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:29 PM #6
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It's not surprising that people who have been waiting...begging.....pleading.....dreaming for a new 4-runner that would not be 5 years behind everyone else's off road offerings in tech/power/features would want to believe earlier dates for what keeps them awake at night. Also, I'd imagine those making $ off car videos, rumors etc. get a lot more views/$ if every few months they tease something that's been highly anticipated for years as opposed to telling people it won't be out for 3 more years.

Honestly after seeing the new Sequoia TRD Pro, I'm almost scared to see the 4r now. The massive loss of cargo space for the hybrid/ tundra rear end and non-removable 3rd row seats is a strait up deal breaker. It's literally losing probably 25% of cargo space in a giant SUV.....the one thing people buy a giant SUV for. It would be like a 3/4 ton pickup that only has 5000 lbs of towing capacity. Also the continuing the trend of not putting features on the TRD Pro trim that other cheaper trims get (1990's sunroof instead of the pano roof, no HUD, no ventilated seats, etc.) seems like Toyota completely lost touch with what a large SUV is. I don't know why internet rumor seems to be that the Sequia was going away so they shoved as much Tundra stuff as they could in it and hoped for the best.

It's almost like Toyota uses the 4r as a social experiment to see how much they can convince people to sacrifice compared to other options but still charge $55k for. Just look at all the features left out of the 4r TRD Pro compared to the Limited trim, yet the TRD pro is $5k more than the limited trim. Heck you can get a ton more features/tech on the Rav 4 for less than $40k (360 cameras, smartkey, digital rear view mirror, heated steering wheel, rain sense de-icing wipers, panoroof, the list goes on).
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:33 PM #7
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Originally Posted by Rensi View Post
That was a great overview, thanks for the write up. What does 5ish mean? And do you think the 2023 that should land this fall will be exactly the same as the '22 with a new color?


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Thank you, needed to rant on how things are so disjointed and warn people to not trust most YouTubers on this subject matter. I've edited my post above for better clarity and to eliminate typos.

The 2023 4Runner is carryover in October 2022, from what I can still see on my end. Ditto for Tacoma.

I've known this since last year, when Toyota published 2023MY launch info early. Sequoia got delayed though by 5-6 months to July from January/Feb 2022.

I don't know about colors and such specifics as equipment changes, but it's pretty much end of the line here, so likely little will be changed. At worst, next 4Runner will be delayed half a year more and become a 2025 model. Or that spring 2024 launch, might be MY2025 anyway.

Any units built in North America (per scheduling info), will arrive in March 2024, 40th anniversary of nameplate ( I feel old, even being slightly younger than that).

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is that you Ted Kaczynski?
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Can we expect a hybrid based on the 2.4 turbo as base engine and the V6 turbo as optional engine? Production will be moved to Mexico is it still confirmed?
I only have confirmation of the I4 hybrid and turbo I4. V6 is new info passed onto me, not well known from what I can see elsewhere. I'll be waiting to see how that goes...

Same Toyota source regarding state of the art hybrid system, says it will be built in Mexico. From my own research in my own capacities, production is supposed to begin in Apaseo Grande, Guanajuato, Mexico in January 2024. That's end of February/March 2024 delivery. Hence 2024.5 or 2024 1/2.

Toyota has not yet announced this production addition or shift, meaning they are holding it close to vest for as long as possible or Tahara assembly will continue with Gen 6, commencing before TMMGT.

Both factories building 6G 4Runners, until TMMGT Mexico is up to speed and can build them on its own circa 2025+.

I knew around 2016-17 Toyota was opening up production of the Lexus NX in Canada to either replace Japanese assembly or supplement it. To my shock, I was dead accurate with my insight and they announced it much later in April 2019, 3 years before production began. Currently both Japan and Canada assemble the redesigned 2022 NX.

(I've updated my OP to eliminate typos.)
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Old 04-02-2022, 07:07 AM #8
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Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
What I see now on YT, TFL, Disqus, and on some other forums, is disheartening in terms of gross cluelessness and the dumbest unproven contradictory theories being put out there and trusted (with no/little skepticism), becoming fodder for never ending rumors, which easily muddle a correct discreet narrative.
You mean everything posted on the Internet isn't true? Color me surprised.

In defense of those who truly wanted to believe a 2023 MY release date (myself included), any possible sign that 2023 was "the year" just added fuel to that fire.

I've temporarily gotten sidetracked with the bZ4X. If I was David from Automotive Press, I'd mention that I have a deposit on it.
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Old 04-02-2022, 07:55 AM #9
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I doubt Toyota would have added the features (RCTA, BSM, MTM) to the 2022 MY if they were planning a complete redesign the next year. They aren't a company known for throwing options at us.
Carmakers claim that the 4R will be made in Japan and Mexico until Mexico gets up and running makes a lot of sense. I believe the 4R will be a very similar to the Tacoma. Almost back to the old days of the 4R being a Tacoma SUV. It will make sense to build it in the same factory just like they moved the Sequoia to the Tundra plant. I don't think they will be able to recreate the level of quality and reliability that they have at the Tahara plant.

One issue coming up might be the govt's zero emission laws. Canada has said all vehicles must be zero emission by 2035. Not sure what the US has for a timeline but it can't be much different. We may only a few years of an ICE/hybrid engine in the 4R then it might be fully electric.
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Old 04-02-2022, 08:21 AM #10
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Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
Good morning,

Every day, as a young automotive professional and enthusiast, I am pained and unnervingly frustrated by the immense levels of stupidity I encounter in some sections of the internet, regarding automotive discussion amongst the public.

Especially regarding Toyota's future product line, and more specifically, the body on frame TNGA-F modular architecture, recently launched in the Land Cruiser, new Tundra, Lexus LX, and in July, the Sequoia.
Carmaker1, thank you so much for keeping us updated with your insight, keep up the great work!

Unfortunately, the click warriors on youtube are not going away, rumors and speculation get clicks, the truth be damned, just ignore them.

Last edited by TexasFunRunner; 04-02-2022 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 04-02-2022, 08:27 AM #11
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So the 5th gen continues until 2024.5?
I was just told 2023 at our local Toyota dealer, but it was a service tech so maybe he didn't know, or couldn't say.
John, my son-in-law is a Toyota Master service tech and friends with the service manager. I'm always asking him, have you heard anything on the 6th gen 4Runner, the answer is always the same, absolutely nothing. Anything you are hearing from a service tech is just their personal speculation.

I'm pretty sure Toyota keeps the dealerships in the dark for as much and as long possible, as they want them selling what is available today not what may or may not be available in future.
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Old 04-02-2022, 11:43 AM #12
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Honestly after seeing the new Sequoia TRD Pro, I'm almost scared to see the 4r now. The massive loss of cargo space for the hybrid/ tundra rear end and non-removable 3rd row seats is a strait up deal breaker. It's literally losing probably 25% of cargo space in a giant SUV.....the one thing people buy a giant SUV for.
The loss of rear cargo space in the new Sequoia was mainly because they moved from a rear independent suspension to a 5 link solid axle which takes up considerably more space. The 4R already has a 5 link solid axle in the rear, so this shouldn't be a major issue.
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Old 04-02-2022, 01:19 PM #13
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Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
Good morning,

Every day, as a young automotive professional and enthusiast, I am pained and unnervingly frustrated by the immense levels of stupidity I encounter in some sections of the internet, regarding automotive discussion amongst the public.

Especially regarding Toyota's future product line, and more specifically, the body on frame TNGA-F modular architecture, recently launched in the Land Cruiser, new Tundra, Lexus LX, and in July, the Sequoia.

I was among a select few, 5-6 years ago, who brought this future architecture's existence to the global forefront, before Toyota even acknowledged it existed in 2021. No one knew about it outside of Toyota in 2016, nor did most journalists first mention it until 2019.


For a good 2 years now, I believe myself and some members here, have done a job of keeping us all informed on WHEN Toyota comes to market with the next 4Runner and Tacoma.

When things fell behind at any step, I pointed out these newly learned delays, with a grain of salt. I began to trust it as credible insight, considering the sources.

By a certain point, I had idiotic refutations from randoms trying to undermine the 4Runner delay to MY2024 as not being accurate and MY2023 to still be accurate.

Since June 2021, I was strongly skeptical of 2023, until some idiots in the sales body claimed I was wrong recently and cited dealer meetings they had attended in September 2021.

Well, I was wrong to acknowledge them, being that I had it directly from the horses' mouths, the real truth...

Toyota began planning of a 6th generation 4Runner for the 2022 model year, roughly 5 years ago. When that fell behind via a domino effect in 2019, it shifted to second half of 2022 as a MY 2023.

This CY2022 launch information appeared in an internal January 2020 PowerPoint presentation, which appeared here weeks later. Prior to that, I had ghostwritten news articles on future Ford, Lexus, and Toyota products through 2024. This became known to the public in February 2020 and later copied by All Car News in March 2020.

2023MY redesign was valid much of 2020.

When new internal ambitions were envisioned for this program in late 2020 regarding EV mode on its THS, it became MY 2024, ironically toward the 40th anniversary of its March 1984 launch. I declared this to be likely, last June. And have done my best to get out the word.

Yet, so many stupid YouTubers go around spreading misleading BS info and confusing countless amounts of people, who either are so busy and looking in the wrong places for information on things TNGA-F for a quick fix.

Or so willfully obtuse, they lazily trust the wrong sources for insight and are too incorrigible to learn from it, that these entities know nada in most cases, as they don't have internal personnel guiding their narrative.

The little incognito efforts I provide in my free time, to steer the ship straight on misinformation, amount to wasted effort, since too many folks are woefully stupid and still trust these ignorant vloggers, bloggers, and news hacks fishing for easy clicks.

I've stopped commenting on these vehicles until now, because I got sick of the wasted time on my part.

Folks tried to say I didn't know what I was talking about regarding both 4Runner and Tacoma redesigns having 2024 all over them. The minute they saw spy shots of midsize Toyota mules, the idiot-laden media jumped up to calling the next one a 2023 MY.

They do not understand a mule with old skin or even a bodyshell tester can be built and tested for 2 years, before that model hits dealers.

I stood by my insight and refuted such claims of "sooner than later".

You have channels like Automotive Press, RobMotive, TFL, and a few others making the matter of misinformation worse, with their blind speculation leading nowhere in most cases or in AP's case, riffing off of unconfirmed guesses like the Sequoia liftgate window somehow equaling the same for 6G without any proof of it.

David at AP has this horrible habit of hiding behind his similar credentials as an engineer, yet stooping to misinforming people with dumb guesses of his as misbegotten fact.

I warned him last year it was now a 2024 model and the Tacoma was not a 2023 model either, both are 2024s. He didn't listen and doubled down on that drivel.

He embarrassingly tried to save face earlier this year, when it started becoming obvious I KNEW what I was talking about and then WHAM, the NY area dealers gave it away via YouTuber Driven District (thanks to him).

Only YouTuber to be wise on this was TRDJON, props to him for being way ahead of the rest and probably open to my insight. I don't know how he picked up on that, good for him. The rest...(sighs)

I really try to be helpful, but I can't help people who don't want to know better from the right sources and waste time with mindless skepticism, while openly entertaining drivel from TFL and the like.

Particularly those of us on forums or commenting incognito elsewhere, who are able to find (or already have) the right internal contacts and report our findings discreetly. Plus will only come to where it is worthwhile regarding our time, to disclose background info without exposing our identities.

Being still somewhat young, I just didn't realize for years how dumb and uninformed people can be, when a good chunk of this information is out there and accessible.

It took Youtuber Driven District leaking the NY region dealers' launch schedule for Calendar Year 2022 to prove me right and yet, you still have many idiots, hypothesizing that Toyota will discontinue the 4Runner based on their own brainless intuition, replace it with a brawny Highlander trim, or etc. (That concern is outdated)

Or magically surprise them out of nowhere in a few months with a new 2023 model. I have said countless times in different places for 1 year, it will be midway through MY 2024 at earliest. Yet it falls on deaf ears in many places.

In terms of human nature, I am puzzled as to why it's so difficult for some people to pick up on the obvious more readily and not have their heads in the sand. When I covered the Bronco years ago, you had your share of idiots bypassing my attempts to set the narrative straight. Just seems like it even gets worse.

What I see now on YT, TFL, Disqus, and on some other forums, is disheartening in terms of gross cluelessness and the dumbest unproven contradictory theories being put out there and trusted (with no/little skepticism), becoming fodder for never ending rumors, which easily muddle a correct discreet narrative.

I'm tired of it at this point, as their only skepticism is often directed at me or similar folks as the messenger. Most uninformed folks should know better or shut up if they don't, to avoid confusing others. And stop attacking the right messengers, with inside information.

This vehicle as I said it before, is a 2024.5ish model. It will offer an I4 hybrid as mentioned to me by someone on the project, although someone else has also mentioned to me that a tune of the V35A-FTS will be making its way into the 920B Tacoma and likely 4Runner by parallel association. I think of GX 550, when that comes up.

First off, thanks for your insight.
Second, who cares if random internet people don’t agree, it’s the internet.
Third, I’m actually happy it’s delayed it gives Toyota a chance to get it right.
Lastly,
Questions for you if you don’t mind:

I love the third gen size and style. Think they might go with a retro styling like when the mustang went back to the iconic shape and sold a ton?

You mentioned an i4 engine, will their be an option for a hybrid?

Will they do anything to limit Rusting for those of us that aren’t lucky enough to live in California
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Old 04-04-2022, 12:27 AM #14
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Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post


This vehicle as I said it before, is a 2024.5ish model. It will offer an I4 hybrid as mentioned to me by someone on the project, although someone else has also mentioned to me that a tune of the V35A-FTS will be making its way into the 920B Tacoma and likely 4Runner by parallel association. I think of GX 550, when that comes up.
Great info, thanks for sharing!
Any additional info on the GX? Will it show up first?
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Old 04-04-2022, 11:39 PM #15
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@Carmaker1 I'd be curious as well if you knew anything about the next GX. I think its the GX550? Any truth to the rumor that it's going to be a bit more boxy and masculine looking...like a Defender. If so they can take my money right now.
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