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Old 06-06-2022, 08:24 AM #1
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6th Gen in Both 2 Door and 4 Door Models

Jeeps, Broncos, Tacos, other Pickups all have multi-door options.

The 4R is being made on the same chassis as the Taco. Banging out 2 different side panels for a 2 door and a 4 door model would just be “Keeping up with the Jones” in the mid-sized SUV market and nothing suprising.

IMHO it would be a stupidass mistake for Toyota not to offer a short wheelbase 2 door.
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Old 06-06-2022, 09:59 AM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichinRidgewood View Post
Jeeps, Broncos, Tacos, other Pickups all have multi-door options.

The 4R is being made on the same chassis as the Taco. Banging out 2 different side panels for a 2 door and a 4 door model would just be “Keeping up with the Jones” in the mid-sized SUV market and nothing suprising.

IMHO it would be a stupidass mistake for Toyota not to offer a short wheelbase 2 door.
Could be a hit…..or could be a dud like Jeep Gladiator, where fanboys demand it and when Jeep finally made it, no one bought it.
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Old 06-06-2022, 10:26 AM #3
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Old 06-08-2022, 09:34 AM #4
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Originally Posted by Thai View Post
Could be a hit…..or could be a dud like Jeep Gladiator, where fanboys demand it and when Jeep finally made it, no one bought it.
I'm not sure I would call the Gladiator "a dud" or say "no one bought it."

In Q1 this year, it outsold the 4Runner and Tundra by a large margin and wasn't too far behind the Tacoma.

Q1 2022 Sales:
Toyota 4Runner - 10,245
Toyota Tundra - 10,960
Ford Ranger - 17,639
Jeep Gladiator - 17,912
Chevrolet Colorado - 21,693
Toyota Tacoma - 21,712
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Old 06-09-2022, 08:17 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeLED View Post
I'm not sure I would call the Gladiator "a dud" or say "no one bought it."

In Q1 this year, it outsold the 4Runner and Tundra by a large margin and wasn't too far behind the Tacoma.

Q1 2022 Sales:
Toyota 4Runner - 10,245
Toyota Tundra - 10,960
Ford Ranger - 17,639
Jeep Gladiator - 17,912
Chevrolet Colorado - 21,693
Toyota Tacoma - 21,712
That is not correct at all. The 4Runner has never been outperformed by the Gladiator in sales numbers.

Although Tacoma is now beginning to slump in sales now, despite a record sales year in 2021 (only beat by pre-1989 Pickup sales) like the 4Runner, it is a sales champion, NEVER toppled since 2005 when it became a leader and ditto for the 4Runner nowadays.

I'm not sure where that information even came from, as you are comparing only the March 2022 sales for each Toyota model against QUARTERLY sales of its American competition. At best the Gladiator sells only 6k a month against the Tacoma at more than 15k per month.

For my own unique reasons and also versatility purposes, I vastly prefer the Gladiator Rubicon 6MT I co-own over the 4Runner and my TRD Pro 6MT, but I wouldn't dare give it credit over Toyota in this arena. Even as a Ford Trucks professional out of Dearborn. I am that strongly objective.

Toyota sold an astounding 53,182 Tacomas and 34,907 4Runners in Q1 of 2022. Gladiator is something I always wanted for Jeep, just like many fans and objective observers since 2005 (concept) and the TJ Scrambler, but it isn't necessarily selling as impressively as it should be. Especially when the Wrangler sold 45,553 in the same period by comparison. The 4Runner isn't as hot as Wrangler, but it's also very old against the American flag's mascot vehicle...

The Tacoma and 4Runner at least have some parity, unlike the case where the Gladiator sells less than HALF of the Wrangler.

It's too far outpaced by its sibling, but then again I don't want to give too much of an opinion on this in here.
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Old 06-09-2022, 09:36 PM #6
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The Gladiator is f*&king ugly and long.
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Old 06-09-2022, 11:13 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmaker1 View Post
That is not correct at all. The 4Runner has never been outperformed by the Gladiator in sales numbers.

Although Tacoma is now beginning to slump in sales now, despite a record sales year in 2021 (only beat by pre-1989 Pickup sales) like the 4Runner, it is a sales champion, NEVER toppled since 2005 when it became a leader and ditto for the 4Runner nowadays.

I'm not sure where that information even came from, as you are comparing only the March 2022 sales for each Toyota model against QUARTERLY sales of its American competition. At best the Gladiator sells only 6k a month against the Tacoma at more than 15k per month.

For my own unique reasons and also versatility purposes, I vastly prefer the Gladiator Rubicon 6MT I co-own over the 4Runner and my TRD Pro 6MT, but I wouldn't dare give it credit over Toyota in this arena. Even as a Ford Trucks professional out of Dearborn. I am that strongly objective.

Toyota sold an astounding 53,182 Tacomas and 34,907 4Runners in Q1 of 2022. Gladiator is something I always wanted for Jeep, just like many fans and objective observers since 2005 (concept) and the TJ Scrambler, but it isn't necessarily selling as impressively as it should be. Especially when the Wrangler sold 45,553 in the same period by comparison. The 4Runner isn't as hot as Wrangler, but it's also very old against the American flag's mascot vehicle...

The Tacoma and 4Runner at least have some parity, unlike the case where the Gladiator sells less than HALF of the Wrangler.

It's too far outpaced by its sibling, but then again I don't want to give too much of an opinion on this in here.
I’m sorry, I messed up. You’re correct, I accidentally mixed some monthly with quarterly numbers. This should be the corrected numbers for the quarter:

Q1 2022 Sales:
Ford Ranger - 17,639
Jeep Gladiator - 17,912
Chevrolet Colorado - 21,693
Toyota Tundra - 22,643
Toyota 4Runner - 37,263
Toyota Tacoma - 53,183
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Old 06-11-2022, 10:53 AM #8
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My problem with the Gladiator is that it's so loooong. It takes at least 35's and a lift to make it look right. In stock form it's just ugly and goofy looking. They should have made a shorter 2 door version, then it would be proportional and look right.

As for 2 door 4Runner, I'm mixed on that. On one hand, yes, they used to make a 2 door 4Runner, so it's not like it's never been done. On the other hand, I'd almost prefer two separate models so performance and functionality is not sacrificed. So, bring back a 2 door, removable to Land Cruiser to battle the 2 dr jeep, and keep the 4Runner 4 door and more functional for average, daily use with weekend fun capability.
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Old 06-11-2022, 03:06 PM #9
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This would be a gigantic waste of money for Toyota.

Jeep keeps the 2dr around for posterity/heritage, but nearly everyone shopping a Wrangler goes for a 4-door. I haven’t even seen a Bronco 2dr out in the wild yet, all of them have been 4dr.

Toyota never gives us exactly what we want (and rightfully so, enthusiasts like to ***** and demand things but rarely spend the money) so I think the closest we’ll come to what you’re asking for is the electric FJ concept we saw a few months back.
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Old 08-10-2022, 09:17 PM #10
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Not sure I'd agree with the 4-runner being a leading sales champion among it's peers.

The Jeep Grand Cherokee, and Ford Explorer sell at a much higher volume. Though to be fair calling the Explorer and off-road vehicle is being very gracious to it. The Grand Cherokee, especially as say a Trailhawk is significantly more capable than the 4-runner. More clearance, much better angles.

2021 #'s
4-runner: 145,000. #24 best selling
Wrangler: 205,000. #15 best selling
Ford Explorer: 220,000. #14 best selling
Grand Cherokee: 265,000. #8 best selling

2022 so far (article from July numbers through Q2)
4-runner.....unknown but < 70,000 because it didn't even make the top 25.
Wrangler: 100,000. #15
Explorer: 103,000. $14
Grand Cherokee: 135,000. #6

I have to admit I've never been a Jeep fan, but it's shocking to me that they sell that many. I feel like I don't see that many Grand Cherokee's around. Making it into the top 10 consistently is huge considering 1/2 ton pickups dominate the top 3 every year and hold 4-5 of the top 10 spots. They are selling at almost 2:1 to the 4-runner.

I want to like the Gladiator but I can't, it's not enough pickup bed to be useful, and I'd rather just have enclosed interior space for cargo. Also, the rear is just super ugly to me, it's almost like two different designs from the cab forward and back. However I can see it's utility if you wanted something with an exposed bed and was super off-road capable, make a great dedicated hunting or ranch vehicle but these days a side x side will go more places than almost anything that's street legal. Also Jeep makes some really weird decisions, for example the Quadra-Drive system is great, but you can't get it on almost anything anymore, and what you can get it on has 20-21' rims.....hardly off road. The only trailhawk Grand Cherokee is now a 4xe. Same for the 35" package on the Wrangler, can't get it with the diesel engine option, and can't get it on the Gladiator at all.

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Old 08-15-2022, 10:53 PM #11
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There is a thread on this forum somewhere where one of the members got an invite a while back and there were asking about input for the next generation runner. Drive trains and engines were not discussed but there were pictures of a four-door and a two door possible version of the next GEN so it's not that far-fetched likely probably not but who knows
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Old 09-01-2022, 06:07 PM #12
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2Dr 4Runner, Diesel, Call it the Prado or something... profit
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Old 09-01-2022, 08:07 PM #13
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A friend had the full size, Honda Passport version, which was a pretty nice rig.
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Old 09-08-2022, 10:43 AM #14
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Not sure I'd agree with the 4-runner being a leading sales champion among it's peers.

The Jeep Grand Cherokee, and Ford Explorer sell at a much higher volume. Though to be fair calling the Explorer and off-road vehicle is being very gracious to it. The Grand Cherokee, especially as say a Trailhawk is significantly more capable than the 4-runner. More clearance, much better angles.

2021 #'s
4-runner: 145,000. #24 best selling
Wrangler: 205,000. #15 best selling
Ford Explorer: 220,000. #14 best selling
Grand Cherokee: 265,000. #8 best selling

2022 so far (article from July numbers through Q2)
4-runner.....unknown but < 70,000 because it didn't even make the top 25.
Wrangler: 100,000. #15
Explorer: 103,000. $14
Grand Cherokee: 135,000. #6

I have to admit I've never been a Jeep fan, but it's shocking to me that they sell that many. I feel like I don't see that many Grand Cherokee's around. Making it into the top 10 consistently is huge considering 1/2 ton pickups dominate the top 3 every year and hold 4-5 of the top 10 spots. They are selling at almost 2:1 to the 4-runner.
Let's be honest here with today's buyer. A Grand Cherokee or Explorer is lightyears ahead of a 4Runner in regards to on road manners all while being capable enough for that one time someone is going to drive a dirt road. They all have 4wd, so they tick the snow box. Offroad capability is really not a true necessity or desire for 99.9% of SUV buyers anyway, including 4Runners. But, it's cool to have the rugged image. It's what's sold the Jeep brand for so long all while making them "softer" every year. Buyers aren't hitting Moab or offroad parks in their $60k luxury family hauler and they know that, but it's fun to pretend.

As someone who has owned both, I'm surprised the GC outsells the 4Runner only 2:1. It's so much better to drive on road and offers way more in regards to tech, better MPG, it's faster, it tows more and tows better, etc. for the same price. They just have way more issues. That's where the Toyota wins. I still prefer my "rugged" 4Runner and love driving it every day as I'm sure we all do here, but we're the minority. There is a reason we have a "family car" as well.
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Old 09-08-2022, 10:55 AM #15
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Would love a modern 2dr 4Runner but something tells me it might look a little goofy. The original 4runner looked cool, a modern 2dr might look stupid. Jeep and Bronco can pull it off due to the retro styling.

With enough lift and larger tires the current wheelbase isn't actually a hinderance. A shorter wheelbase would help the out-of-the-box performance though wouldn't be as stable with a huge lift and tires.

I would take a decent powerplant over a 2dr option if given the choice.

My 1st gen Tundra single cab that I chopped 22" out of the frame comes close to a modern 2dr 4Runner. Wheelbase is shorter than the FJ's and has a V8.
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