[Hitman]

Originally Posted by Jetboy

For me the 4Runner sits half way between the Bronco/Wrangler and Jeep GC. Toyota doesn't build a direct competitor in either of those two segments. Nor does Jeep or Ford sell a 4Runner competitor in the USA market. Ford does build and sell the Everest that is pretty similar to a 4Runner segment globally. But not in the USA. I don't think anything globally in the Jeep world is similar. In my view the closest direct competitor to the Wrangler in the toyota corporate umbrella is the Subaru outback. It's very similar structurally.

Anyway - 4Runner overlaps the jeep/bronco market. I think this moves the needle that way with 35's fitting stock and 37's being pretty easy to bolt on.

I do think Toyota is missing the "fun" part of the market without any removeable top. That's what really separates the Bronco and Wrangler from all others.

I also think the 4R will out perform the Bronco offroad in some conditions. The rear suspension is significantly superior on the 4Runner. The coilover design on the Bronco is a real bummer. It effectively eliminates the benefit of a solid axle while keeping most of the negatives. To maximize the benefits of a solid axle the springs need to be inboard and shocks ideally put outboard as far as possible. Toyota's rear axle coil design is better. Wrangler is also similar to the Toyota design. I think a 4Runner with 37s will be pretty comparable to the Bronco or Wrangler on the trails overall.

A Grand Cherokee Trailhawk is as good or even better than a 4Runner offroad. The Grand Cherokee Traihawk doesn't have a solid rear axle, but it has standard air suspension that gives it a big advantage.

[Jetboy]

Originally Posted by Hitman

A Grand Cherokee Trailhawk is as good or even better than a 4Runner offroad. The Grand Cherokee Traihawk doesn't have a solid rear axle, but it has standard air suspension that gives it a big advantage.

The 4R sits roughly half way between the Wrangler and GC. On Toyota's side - the GA-L and Subaru products are pretty close to the GC. If you put an SUV body on a Lexus IS350 - it would be a direct competitor with the GC. They are remarkably similar in design from suspension to engine/trans layouts etc. And - IMO - Toyota really should be building a GA-L based SUV that competes directly with the GC. It should be a Lexus GX unibody SUV that is based on the IS350/LS platform with a longitudinal powertrain. And the Lexus TX should also be on that platform, not the extended FWD platform.

As far as better off-road, I think it depends a lot on what you mean by that.

Put both on a starting line in a Baja 1000 or a Mint 400 - 4Runner would be about a 10:1 favorite I think. Maybe more. Start both at the gate keeper to the Rubicon and put bets on which one will come out the other side. I think the same would hold. The last time Jeep tried I think it came out the other end and left on a flatbed to the crusher with every door sill crushed and the transmission punctured.

Take them to a single large round rock - GC might have an advantage in clearance. Maybe even on a sand dune or muddy area. Maybe some Moab trails where the high ride height might help. There's definitely some places a GC will do better. It just depends on whether an extra inch or two of belly clearance matters or whether it needs to be able to handle the abuse of sliding and dragging over rocks and logs. The GC is a car with big tires at its core, so the truck robustness isn't there. But for single obstacles, it can do really well.

Just for fun:

Lexus IS350 suspension vs Jeep GC - they're remarkably similar:

[MAST4R]

The GC trailhawk would be fun for occasional sightseeing offroading (while the air suspension holds up at least).

A 100-mile stretch at some speed in the desert...is a whole different type of offroading.

Of course, the 4R cannot match a prerunner on that but it can do anything that can be considered somewhat safe for a vehicle without a cage...again, and again, and then again.

So horses for courses.

Though the 4R is best at nothing, it is a faithful Swiss knife and a true offroader meaning it is built so it can take the punishment over a long period of time, not just too look good and do a tough trail once in a blue moon.

[AZ Craig]

Originally Posted by Jetboy

As far as better off-road, I think it depends a lot on what you mean by that.

Put both on a starting line in a Baja 1000 or a Mint 400 - 4Runner would be about a 10:1 favorite I think. Maybe more. Start both at the gate keeper to the Rubicon and put bets on which one will come out the other side. I think the same would hold. The last time Jeep tried I think it came out the other end and left on a flatbed to the crusher with every door sill crushed and the transmission punctured.

Take them to a single large round rock - GC might have an advantage in clearance. Maybe even on a sand dune or muddy area. Maybe some Moab trails where the high ride height might help. There's definitely some places a GC will do better. It just depends on whether an extra inch or two of belly clearance matters or whether it needs to be able to handle the abuse of sliding and dragging over rocks and logs. The GC is a car with big tires at its core, so the truck robustness isn't there. But for single obstacles, it can do really well.

I think this hits the nail on the head. I looked at a 4xe Trailhawk last year as an option to replace my Land Rover Discovery Sport (where I ultimately went with my EV).

I felt like the JGC could probably get through most light to moderate offroading situations and probably do pretty well on certain types of more advanced trails also. The air suspension is indeed really good on clearance, but if you look into some more info on this vehicle from Youtubers and what not, I imagine the RTI is definitely lower than that of a 4Runner. The chasis just inherently doesn't flex very well; JGCs seem to lift tires in harder offroading conditions constantly. This isn't neccessarily inherently a huge problem (God knows the Defender does the same thing), but I'd rather keep my rubber on the ground if possible.

Another big Achilles' heel of the JGC are the 31" tires. Additionally, you do not have enough clearance to go much larger. Personally I really don't want to be doing any significant offroading on less than a 32" (and honestly look forward to being able to run a 33" plus with minimal shenanigans on an updated TNGA-F vehicle). I know I could run 33" on my 4Runner easily enough, but don't want to take the performance hit since the power train is already a dog.

[Navajo]

I've heard rumors but haven't seen any real published pricing for the new 6th Gen...anybody else heard anything or just ranges of pricing?

Thanks!

[AZ Craig]

Originally Posted by Navajo

I've heard rumors but haven't seen any real published pricing for the new 6th Gen...anybody else heard anything or just ranges of pricing?

Nothing official out there; your best bet is to look at what a similarly equipped Tacoma is stickered at and add a little bit on.

I imagine Toyota will not release pricing much before at least September to October at the earliest. If this vehicle rolls out as late into 2025 as the Land Cruiser and GX550 are this year, pricing may not even be available until several months into 2025.

[young]

Wonder if 6th gen 4runner will have filter houing cap like the current cap. That is pain in ass to change filters.

[M1911]

Originally Posted by TexasFunRunner

What scenarios caused the FJ Cruiser to rollover, other than idiots driving too fast?

I don't know. My guess? Idiots driving too fast.

[TexasFunRunner]

Originally Posted by Hitman

What does that even mean? What's there to increase wind noise and provide free leaks? Your comment makes no sense at all.

It makes complete sense if you have talked to any Bronco owner or read about it on the Bronco forum.

Happy reading...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threa...inating.46466/

[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by TexasFunRunner

It makes complete sense if you have talked to any Bronco owner or read about it on the Bronco forum.

Happy reading...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

Just a moment...

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threa...inating.46466/

yeah my buddies brand new Braptor had a leaky roof plus you get the bonus of wind noise. No thanks for me

[GFORCEX]

Bronco definitely is a favorite of mine, but I don't own one (yet) and gotta say, atrocious wind noise is BIG fact about it on 4 doors. I can't believe that Webasto or whoever is responsible for those tops, screwed the pooch and are allowed to still do this 3 years later.

Chrysler (aka American Stellantis) gets it down right, where I never experience obnoxious exterior noise in the Gladiator and Wrangler. Bronco, sadly not the case whatsoever. Ford would've done well to facelift the Bronco this year and fix these issues. They don't seem serious whatsoever or maybe delayed any such plans, because of the Ranger rollout and/or UAW strike.

[TexasFunRunner]

Originally Posted by GFORCEX

Bronco definitely is a favorite of mine, but I don't own one (yet) and gotta say, atrocious wind noise is BIG fact about it on 4 doors. I can't believe that Webasto or whoever is responsible for those tops, screwed the pooch and are allowed to still do this 3 years later.

Chrysler (aka American Stellantis) gets it down right, where I never experience obnoxious exterior noise in the Gladiator and Wrangler. Bronco, sadly not the case whatsoever. Ford would've done well to facelift the Bronco this year and fix these issues. They don't seem serious whatsoever or maybe delayed any such plans, because of the Ranger rollout and/or UAW strike.

Hi @Carmaker1 , why did you change your username to @GFORCEX ?

Ford is clueless, sure Webasto is the supplier, but Ford is responsible for managing the design and their suppliers, both of which they fail miserably in.

Ford does not give a ratsass about quality, all they care about is pumping out the numbers, letting the dealers fix the problems, when you can get an appointment, as they are overbooked fixing all the factory screwups.

Yet their golden boy CEO stays on, what a joke.

[westwind77]

So....after a month of hard thought I realized I just do not want that new 6th Gen so found a new '24 Limited in Wind Chill Pearl and brought it home last week.

I would have gone for the Limited '25, and I do like the exterior of that model, based on the videos/photos. I can say I am not a fan of some of the other trim line exteriors though.

I just can't get how 'bad' the interior of the new '25 is! They make it look so cheap, IMO. Who wants a giant 'TOYOTA' advertisement on the passenger dash?!?! That is worse than the people who put their make/model on their WS tint strip! It just looks to plastic and cheap, again, just my opinion.

I will say, after about a week with the new '24 I am beyond happy! I held off because I did not think the tech was 'up-to-date' enough, and I was wrong. This thing has so many options, settings, features, etc.

This is coming from someone who bought one of the first 5th Generations in the Northeast - I put a deposit down on it weeks before it arrived at the dealership and when it did it was the only one within 200 miles. I took it for a spin and signed the papers. I looked at the photos/videos and knew it was the vehicle for me.....the same way I looked at the photos/videos of the '25 and know that is NOT the vehicle for me anymore.

Hopefully Toyota will make the '25 a bit more refined, especially the Limited, for those of us who want a nice interior but still want to be able to do a bit of adventuring now and then.

Being a new Generation I think the 1st, and maybe 2nd year, sales will be strong, but I have a feeling they will fall off quickly after that.

I am curious to see what it looks like after year 3 compared to how the 5th Gen sold....time will tell.