[gomiami]

Originally Posted by westwind77

So....after a month of hard thought I realized I just do not want that new 6th Gen so found a new '24 Limited in Wind Chill Pearl and brought it home last week.

I would have gone for the Limited '25, and I do like the exterior of that model, based on the videos/photos. I can say I am not a fan of some of the other trim line exteriors though.

I just can't get how 'bad' the interior of the new '25 is! They make it look so cheap, IMO. Who wants a giant 'TOYOTA' advertisement on the passenger dash?!?! That is worse than the people who put their make/model on their WS tint strip! It just looks to plastic and cheap, again, just my opinion.

I will say, after about a week with the new '24 I am beyond happy! I held off because I did not think the tech was 'up-to-date' enough, and I was wrong. This thing has so many options, settings, features, etc.

This is coming from someone who bought one of the first 5th Generations in the Northeast - I put a deposit down on it weeks before it arrived at the dealership and when it did it was the only one within 200 miles. I took it for a spin and signed the papers. I looked at the photos/videos and knew it was the vehicle for me.....the same way I looked at the photos/videos of the '25 and know that is NOT the vehicle for me anymore.

Hopefully Toyota will make the '25 a bit more refined, especially the Limited, for those of us who want a nice interior but still want to be able to do a bit of adventuring now and then.

Being a new Generation I think the 1st, and maybe 2nd year, sales will be strong, but I have a feeling they will fall off quickly after that.

I am curious to see what it looks like after year 3 compared to how the 5th Gen sold....time will tell.

Excellent choice on the last 5th gen Limited in what I think is the best color for that trim. The Pearl with the Redwood interior was my preferred choice when I had my deposit of a 4Runner before I switched over to the GX460 at the last minute.

Congrats.

[AZ Craig]

Originally Posted by gomiami

Yeah. I just can't imagine sales will remain robust on Toyota SUVs at these price points. Same thing with the pricing on the new GX550.

I think the GX550 pricing is fine though and will sell well if you look at the competition. A decent Defender with the 3.0 is at least $75K and can easily run into the $80s or more if optioned decently. For Japanese reliability BoF (and hell, BoF in general unless you include the American monster SUVs) you pretty much have a null set other than maybe a fully loaded Sequoia Capstone which I think also pushes well over $80K. Vehicles like the Mercedes G then are in a whole other pricing category well over $100K.

In some ways I think the bigger question mark becomes what is the financial advantage of a decently equipped Land Cruiser (in the $68K to low $70K range) versus a lower trim GX550 for a lot of people. If the 4Runner Limited and Platinum pricing lines up around $60K (which it may very well based on the Tacoma pricing), this is another reason I could see some people moving up to the Lexus instead.

[gomiami]

Originally Posted by AZ Craig

I think the GX550 pricing is fine though and will sell well if you look at the competition. A decent Defender with the 3.0 is at least $75K and can easily run into the $80s or more if optioned decently. For Japanese reliability BoF (and hell, BoF in general unless you include the American monster SUVs) you pretty much have a null set other than maybe a fully loaded Sequoia Capstone which I think also pushes well over $80K. Vehicles like the Mercedes G then are in a whole other pricing category well over $100K.

In some ways I think the bigger question mark becomes what is the financial advantage of a decently equipped Land Cruiser (in the $68K to low $70K range) versus a lower trim GX550 for a lot of people. If the 4Runner Limited and Platinum pricing lines up around $60K (which it may very well based on the Tacoma pricing), this is another reason I could see some people moving up to the Lexus instead.

I agree with you, in theory. Toyota is competitively priced with other manufacturers and Toyota/Lexus quality is a nice advantage.

My main concern is that the entire industry is pricing itself out of the market.

The automotive industry is fast approaching a breaking point where people, in the numbers manufacturers and dealerships need to keep record profits continuing, will either simply stop justifying $50k, $60k, $70k, window stickers for a daily driver or they won't qualify for a car loan even if they are willing to pay because of high interest rates and tightening bank credit.

[M1911]

Originally Posted by AZ Craig

In some ways I think the bigger question mark becomes what is the financial advantage of a decently equipped Land Cruiser (in the $68K to low $70K range) versus a lower trim GX550 for a lot of people.

Yeah, that is a definite consideration for me. LC with premium package is over $70k. At that point, why not a GX Overtrail?

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by westwind77

I just can't get how 'bad' the interior of the new '25 is! They make it look so cheap, IMO. Who wants a giant 'TOYOTA' advertisement on the passenger dash?!?!

The '25 Limited does not have this. That's a Pro and Trailhunter thing.

[AZ Craig]

Originally Posted by gomiami

I agree with you, in theory. Toyota is competitively priced with other manufacturers and Toyota/Lexus quality is a nice advantage.

My main concern is that the entire industry is pricing itself out of the market.

The automotive industry is fast approaching a breaking point where people, in the numbers manufacturers and dealerships need to keep record profits continuing, will either simply stop justifying $50k, $60k, $70k, window stickers for a daily driver or they won't qualify for a car loan even if they are willing to pay because of high interest rates and tightening bank credit.

You're completely right and I think that's why we continue to see pretty good demand for lower priced (sub-$40K) vehicles currently as a lot of stuff over $50K and especially over $60K has slowed down and is being discounted quite a bit.

The demise of Jeep in the US market I think is completely a product of them pricing their vehicles out of the reach of quite a few of their consumers. When I looked at a V8 Grand Cherokee L the end of last year, they literally were willing to give it to me at around $17K (!) off of sticker ($66K purchase price negotiated on a $83K summit reserve vehicle). Ultimately I ended up passing since I was getting a crappy trade on my Rover from them and the vehicle didn't lease very well (plus was an absolute gas hog with potentially questionable reliability). Wranglers and Gladiators are heavily discounted for this exact reason too; how many Jeep consumers can afford these vehicles when Rubicons and Sahara trim lines are easily pushing into the mid to upper $60Ks range. Then you end up with a bunch of financially illiterate people on 84 month loans with 10% interest rates and a $1000 a month car payment who will be upside down for years.

I am really curious to see if Toyota can keep up the sales pace on this new generation of Tacomas, 4Runners, and the Land Cruiser with the prices where they are now or if they simply start to push people away who simply cannot make it financially work any longer (even if they really want it).

[AZ Craig]

Originally Posted by M1911

Yeah, that is a definite consideration for me. LC with premium package is over $70k. At that point, why not a GX Overtrail?

Or just splurge for the Overtrail Plus which maxes out right around $82K I think. My take on it is monst consumers who can afford a $72K truck can probably afford an $82K truck. Land Cruiser will probably have nominally better residual values and a slightly cheaper operating cost given the better fuel mileage. You also take the cargo hit with the raised floor in the trunk though to accomodate the hybrid battery plus the GX550 blows away the LC on towing capacity.

The LC may be a slightly better platform to modify is the one thing I can see given the EKDSS system in the GX; at least for suspension work.

[thatoneguy]

It's interesting that a mid-spec Land Cruiser without the premium package is about $63k, and that a base GX is $64k, both with destination. Those are really similar prices. Some of the only big draws to the LC250 in this comparison is that the LC can get the two-tone paint offerings (which I think are awesome), and that it comes standard with the rear locker--you have to go straight to an Overtrail to get a rear locker in the GX, and now you're at $69k. So I guess... how much is that thirsty V6 (versus the efficient 4cyl hybrid), the Lexus badge, Lexus interior, one year longer warranty, and extra cargo area (since no hybrid battery) worth to you?

I think the base LC250 is the best value. Granted, it may be hard to stomach cloth seats at $57k... even if you're getting full-time 4WD, style, and a rear locker. If you don't care about a rear locker or fuel economy and just want a nice full-time 4WD offroad capable SUV, the base base GX seems like good value.

All these prices kind of need $3-5k of Dealer Adjustment applied to them--in the downward direction this time. And maybe that'll be the case after the first 6-12 months... 4Runners were already readily available thousands below MSRP, and I'm hearing multiple reports of non-loaded 2024 Tacomas already selling $1-2k below MSRP. Toyota may have been too profit-optimistic on these pricing structures, particularly at current interest rates.

[gomiami]

Originally Posted by thatoneguy

It's interesting that a mid-spec Land Cruiser without the premium package is about $63k, and that a base GX is $64k, both with destination. Those are really similar prices. Some of the only big draws to the LC250 in this comparison is that the LC can get the two-tone paint offerings (which I think are awesome), and that it comes standard with the rear locker--you have to go straight to an Overtrail to get a rear locker in the GX, and now you're at $69k. So I guess... how much is that thirsty V6 (versus the efficient 4cyl hybrid), the Lexus badge, Lexus interior, one year longer warranty, and extra cargo area (since no hybrid battery) worth to you?

I think the base LC250 is the best value. Granted, it may be hard to stomach cloth seats at $57k... even if you're getting full-time 4WD, style, and a rear locker. If you don't care about a rear locker or fuel economy and just want a nice full-time 4WD offroad capable SUV, the base base GX seems like good value.

All these prices kind of need $3-5k of Dealer Adjustment applied to them--in the downward direction this time. And maybe that'll be the case after the first 6-12 months... 4Runners were already readily available thousands below MSRP, and I'm hearing multiple reports of non-loaded 2024 Tacomas already selling $1-2k below MSRP. Toyota may have been too profit-optimistic on these pricing structures, particularly at current interest rates.

The one thing I would add is that, if the GX550 is anything like the GX460 was, you will be hard pressed to find a Premium 550 available in large parts of the country. So, while the on-paper price is very similar, the LC will actually have units you can buy whereas the Premium GX550 will be a unicorn.

In the KC/Omaha area, there are 54 GX550s allocated or in transit...only two of them are the Premium trim that costs $64k (both are optioned out at around $66k.)