05-13-2024, 04:40 PM
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#271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatoneguy
They also definitely need to ease up on putting several thousand dollar packages on too many of their factory builds. Not every TRD OR buyer wants that $4,600 "offroad upgrade" package or that eye-watering $8,800 "Off-road Premium" package. Turns a $44k truck into a $53k truck real quick.
Saw it happen with 2023/2024 4Runners. In late 2022, it seemed like most Offroad Premiums they were building were loaded to the hilt with several thousand dollars in options. 9-12 months later, a LOT more low/no options builds started hitting dealers. No matter how much automakers want it, their wide middle class audience cannot reliably swing 55k vehicles--which makes me wonder what future sales of LC250s and 4Runners will look like.
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Agreed.
But even the basic models aren't selling. As an example just searching for ones listed for a long time,
This is a SR5 that's been sitting for 131 days for sale and has price dropped $2,600 so far since listing.
cargurus.com
Another one under MSRP still sitting at 128 days that is an SR5 model (mis-listed) in a pretty basic trim without much dealer add ons.
cargurus.com
Considering how new these are and not able to move them - I think the writing is on the wall for what the market looks like in 6 months or a year.
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05-13-2024, 05:03 PM
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#272
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Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South of the Kansas City Metro
Age: 55
Posts: 363
Real Name: Jay
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Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South of the Kansas City Metro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy
Some new Tacomas are already sitting on lots for 100+ days. Something has to give. New trucks sitting 100 days is time to start cutting prices to get them moving out the door.
Maybe $55k for a TRD OR Tacoma isn't a viable market price.
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I would hope not. The average car increased around 6% in 2021, 11% in 2022 and 3% in 2023. Not many people got 20% raises over the same period.
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2000 Honda Civic SI (EM1) Electron Blue Pearl - original owner, 242,800k and completely stock.
2023 Lexus GX460 Premium Nightfall Mica - original owner, 1,580 miles.
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05-14-2024, 11:28 AM
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#273
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy
Agreed.
But even the basic models aren't selling. As an example just searching for ones listed for a long time,
This is a SR5 that's been sitting for 131 days for sale and has price dropped $2,600 so far since listing.
cargurus.com
Another one under MSRP still sitting at 128 days that is an SR5 model (mis-listed) in a pretty basic trim without much dealer add ons.
cargurus.com
Considering how new these are and not able to move them - I think the writing is on the wall for what the market looks like in 6 months or a year.
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Yep.
It's also not just the notable MSRP increases from prior gen 2023's, there's of course the financing part. At least in my region, Toyota USA was doing 3.9% financing on Tacomas for the last three years straight. Currently, my region has no promotional financing rate available on 2024's. They'll probably have to change that pretty fast; that or start doing deep discounts like they did on 2024 4Runners.
Financing a $40k 2023 Tacoma at 3.9% is a lot easier than financing a $45k 2024 Tacoma at 7.0%. I really think Toyota will need to bring the promotional rates right back to not create a backlog of unsold trucks. Filling lots with a bunch of cheaper SR's isn't enough; financing $38k at 7.0% still sucks. I have to say that as much as I like the idea and price point of the SR's, having the lower power version of the engine in that trim is a total penalty box. For non-business use, I would want an SR5. At least the low-spec 2.4L is still worlds faster than the old 2.7L.
Toyota might also be wise to realize they swung for the fences with 2024 Tacoma pricing, and consider holding the MSRP flat for model year 2025.
This reminds me of the 2024 Jeep Gladiator, which despite getting a nice facelift and upgrades, LOWERED the MSRP $1,700 from 2023 MSRP. They just weren't selling. They'll give you $16k off a leftover 2023 Gladiator if any are still out there.
This is all to say I don't want to see a bunch of $52k 6th gen 4Runners on lots being offered with absolutely no promotional financing rates.
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2023 TRD Offroad Premium, nautical blue
Former: 1987 SR5 w/ SAS, 1999 Limited w/ e-locker
Last edited by thatoneguy; 05-14-2024 at 02:25 PM.
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05-14-2024, 12:47 PM
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#274
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mesa, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1911
The OT+ is more than I want to spend. Yes, the reduced cargo space in the LC 250 is a negative, but the improvement in fuel economy is significant. I’ve seen a post from an LC owner that he is getting 22 mpg, versus 17 mpg in a GX. That might not sound like a big difference, but it is about 30%. I’m nearing retirement and don’t drive a lot these days, so the cost difference won’t be huge for me. I still have an irrational disappointment that the GX doesn’t get better fuel economy.
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I'm with you on the gas mileage honestly, but the advantages of the GX550 packaging and tow capacity are worth it I think. The GX550 is not going to be a huge step forward from the 5th generation 4Runner (or GX460) in terms of fuel mileage. I think it comes down to usage like you mention however. Even with 15K miles a year, you're talking probably less than $100 a month (with gas at or over $4 per gallon). If you want something with better gas mileage, get a unibody derived cross over with a turbo 4 or hybrid power train.
It's a consideration, but to me, not a show stopper. I do want to drive both powertrains though and see what I think of them. I've already started to watch for "unclaimed" vehicles coming through the Phoenix metro in hopes of driving something.
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2016 Black Trail Premium KDSS - Traded
2020 Army Green TRD Pro: 265/70R17 Goodyear Duratrac RT, Eibach TRD Pro Lift-Kit Springs, Victory 4x4 Blitz Al Sliders, RCI TRD Pro Integration Al Skid Plate Set, RCI Gas Tank Al Skid Plate, Front Runner 3/4 Slimline Roof Rack (w/1.4m Easy-Out Awning and Quick Release Kit), Morimoto XB Taillights, Canvasback Cargo Liner, more to come...
2023 Yacht Blue Kia EV6 GT
Last edited by AZ Craig; 05-14-2024 at 12:53 PM.
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05-14-2024, 12:50 PM
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#275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatoneguy
They also definitely need to ease up on putting several thousand dollar packages on too many of their factory builds. Not every TRD OR buyer wants that $4,600 "offroad upgrade" package or that eye-watering $8,800 "Off-road Premium" package. Turns a $44k truck into a $53k truck real quick.
Saw it happen with 2023/2024 4Runners. In late 2022, it seemed like most Offroad Premiums they were building were loaded to the hilt with several thousand dollars in options. 9-12 months later, a LOT more low/no options builds started hitting dealers. No matter how much automakers want it, their wide middle class audience cannot reliably swing 55k vehicles--which makes me wonder what future sales of LC250s and 4Runners will look like.
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Then to top it off you have dealers putting several thousand of BS on their cars that they will not remove like nitrogen filled tires and other cash grabs like GPS locator theft systems. So then your $53K truck is actually a $57K truck with a bunch of dealer added crap on it.
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2016 Black Trail Premium KDSS - Traded
2020 Army Green TRD Pro: 265/70R17 Goodyear Duratrac RT, Eibach TRD Pro Lift-Kit Springs, Victory 4x4 Blitz Al Sliders, RCI TRD Pro Integration Al Skid Plate Set, RCI Gas Tank Al Skid Plate, Front Runner 3/4 Slimline Roof Rack (w/1.4m Easy-Out Awning and Quick Release Kit), Morimoto XB Taillights, Canvasback Cargo Liner, more to come...
2023 Yacht Blue Kia EV6 GT
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05-14-2024, 04:20 PM
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#276
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Madison Wisconsin
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I love the looks but....
There is no way I'll be able to afford one of the pricier versions of the 4runner. I have a 12 year old 2012 Trail edition that has been the best vehicle I have owned in my lifetime. Trips to the Blueridge Mountains, and west to the Tetons and another trip to the Bighorns, the vehicle failed to disappoint off road.
But, she's 12 now and just about to turn 100K. I'm retired and looking for another, but at $60K to get what I want...I may just drive her another 12 years.
Toyota reliability and value is second to none as far as I'm concerned. I would never even consider buying Ford/GM/whatever they call Chrysler nowadays.
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05-14-2024, 10:29 PM
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#277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by et2041
But, she's 12 now and just about to turn 100K. I'm retired and looking for another, but at $60K to get what I want...I may just drive her another 12 years.
Toyota reliability and value is second to none as far as I'm concerned. I would never even consider buying Ford/GM/whatever they call Chrysler nowadays.
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That would be Stellantis.
Seriously, as long as rust isn't a problem for you and the price of new vehicles has gotten prohibitive, run the 4runner for longer as you mention. If anything is going to last for 20 years and 200k plus miles with some nominal investment to keep it going it is one of these older Toyota trucks.
I love newer technology and am not anti turbo, hybrid or EV like some of the members on this forum. But for all the downsides of a 5th gen, longevity and bulletproofness are probably its strongest suits. I have even wondered if I should just hang onto my 5th gen as a third car and get something more efficient with a 3rd row as our family and crap hauler. After all, 9 years from now I can give it to my oldest kid and if it is a third vehicle I would be surprised if we put more than 5k to 10k miles on it a year (baasically use it when we need the ruggedness and otherwise use a better tool). I know it will last, especially in Arizona where rust is a non factor.
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2016 Black Trail Premium KDSS - Traded
2020 Army Green TRD Pro: 265/70R17 Goodyear Duratrac RT, Eibach TRD Pro Lift-Kit Springs, Victory 4x4 Blitz Al Sliders, RCI TRD Pro Integration Al Skid Plate Set, RCI Gas Tank Al Skid Plate, Front Runner 3/4 Slimline Roof Rack (w/1.4m Easy-Out Awning and Quick Release Kit), Morimoto XB Taillights, Canvasback Cargo Liner, more to come...
2023 Yacht Blue Kia EV6 GT
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05-15-2024, 09:30 AM
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#278
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Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Since we are talking price here it is going to be interesting to see where all these vehicles go in the future, starting today with their higher prices. Now for me the price is not the biggest consideration when buying a new vehicle, as I buy what I want, but I don't throw my money away either. The wife and I usually buy the premium models in what we buy, be it a Lexus, or a Toyota model and trade around every five years with around 40,00/50,000 miles on our vehicles. This is probably because we are retired and don't drive that much but like to stay up scale on our vehicles. With Toyota and Lexus both adding new models to their model list it is going to interesting to see what sells and what doesn't, or should I say, will 4 Runner buyers move up to the Land Cruiser and will the Lexus Gx 460 buyers move up to the GX 550, big price difference between the two. As many of these vehicles are new and some haven't hit the market yet I don't think we can really tell what is going to happen for a year, or two.
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2024 4 Runner Premium TRD Off Road
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05-15-2024, 08:32 PM
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#279
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by et2041
There is no way I'll be able to afford one of the pricier versions of the 4runner. I have a 12 year old 2012 Trail edition that has been the best vehicle I have owned in my lifetime. Trips to the Blueridge Mountains, and west to the Tetons and another trip to the Bighorns, the vehicle failed to disappoint off road.
But, she's 12 now and just about to turn 100K. I'm retired and looking for another, but at $60K to get what I want...I may just drive her another 12 years.
Toyota reliability and value is second to none as far as I'm concerned. I would never even consider buying Ford/GM/whatever they call Chrysler nowadays.
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I really don't see 12 years old as a problem for a 4Runner.
Right now, we are happy campers with 3 very different vehicles:
The 2018 4R, which has been perfectly set for offroading for years. I hope to drive it 20 years. It will be dedicated chiefly to adventure missions from now on.
The 2024 Model Y AWD which we just got at 0.99% for 72 mo basically free money, 1,300$ cost of loan over 6 years. It is amazing in town, gets me 30+ miles to the dollar in town vs 4.5 miles to the dollar in the 4R or Subaru, and should get some of the non-offroading summer vacations under the belt as well.
The 2008 Subaru Tribeca. We all need beaters, and this one has been extremely useful, always used on brutal short hops, and yet still going strong.
For anyone seriously interested in offroading plus long-distance driving, I still think the 4Runner/Tacoma/Land Cruiser 250 are the ticket.
But for general purposes not including offroading or real towing, my wife and I briefly looked at Toyota and used Lexus and Subaru and once we drove the Model Y, it was game over instantly. Everything else under 50k or so felt obsolete, not to mention slow lol.
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2018 TRD OP non-kdss, well armored, well used
(6112s/650lb at 2.25" lift, 8100 rear with Bilstein B12 1.5" springs, Mickey Thompson BAJA MTZ LTE 265 70 17, RCI set of front 3/16 skids, Shrockworks step sliders and 3/16 steel gas tank skid, C4Fab rear diff skid, Rockmen rear LCAs, Total Chaos rear LCA bracket skids, Diode Dynamics SS3 white fog lights).
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05-17-2024, 11:34 AM
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#280
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Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South of the Kansas City Metro
Age: 55
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Real Name: Jay
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Join Date: Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Craig
Then to top it off you have dealers putting several thousand of BS on their cars that they will not remove like nitrogen filled tires and other cash grabs like GPS locator theft systems. So then your $53K truck is actually a $57K truck with a bunch of dealer added crap on it.
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Yeah. The 6th gen 4Runner and the GX550 are both going to get this treatment. On top of this, the port is getting into the habit, at least here in the KC region, of adding thousands of dollars of options as well.
With both the port and the dealership slapping on bloat, the final price will be not what people are expecting...or maybe even willing...to pay.
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2000 Honda Civic SI (EM1) Electron Blue Pearl - original owner, 242,800k and completely stock.
2023 Lexus GX460 Premium Nightfall Mica - original owner, 1,580 miles.
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05-17-2024, 04:05 PM
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#281
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Plano, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavPro
The roll down window needs to be eliminated.
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That is the single best and most valuable feature of the T4R, in my view. When I bought my 5th Gen, I looked at the GX, and discounted it. The barn door is a poor design choice, and the lack of a roll down window greatly limits the functionality of the vehicle.
Just my 2 cents.
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2018 Limited 4x4, Magnetic Gray/Redwood FN 17" Type X, Mich Defender 265.70.17, LED upgrades (XD Low Beams, DD Turn as Tail, DD Switchbacks, LEDs inside and out), Bully Step, N-FAB Nerf Steps, Front Spacer lift, DR900S-2CH Dashcam, and more...
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05-17-2024, 04:26 PM
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#282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Craig
In some ways a R1S just got more tempting for me .
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Kinda where I am, although the R1S is a bit more than I need. I have a deposit down on an R2S. I can wait. My T4R Limited is in good shape with low miles. 2026 will be just about right, timing wise. I'm ready for an EV, and my wife's car is an MDX - so we are covered if we don't want to be charging on a road trip. But even that is getting better all the time.
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2018 Limited 4x4, Magnetic Gray/Redwood FN 17" Type X, Mich Defender 265.70.17, LED upgrades (XD Low Beams, DD Turn as Tail, DD Switchbacks, LEDs inside and out), Bully Step, N-FAB Nerf Steps, Front Spacer lift, DR900S-2CH Dashcam, and more...
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05-17-2024, 08:36 PM
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#283
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South of the Kansas City Metro
Age: 55
Posts: 363
Real Name: Jay
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylor99
That is the single best and most valuable feature of the T4R, in my view. When I bought my 5th Gen, I looked at the GX, and discounted it. The barn door is a poor design choice, and the lack of a roll down window greatly limits the functionality of the vehicle.
Just my 2 cents.
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I'm biased because I bought one but, while I thought I would really dislike the barn door and pop up back window on my GX460, it has ended up being two of the features (other than the powertrain) I like the most. I do wish it swung to the driver's side but, now that I'm used to it, I wouldn't trade it.
However, I can understand you point of view.
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2000 Honda Civic SI (EM1) Electron Blue Pearl - original owner, 242,800k and completely stock.
2023 Lexus GX460 Premium Nightfall Mica - original owner, 1,580 miles.
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05-18-2024, 12:14 AM
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#284
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylor99
That is the single best and most valuable feature of the T4R, in my view. When I bought my 5th Gen, I looked at the GX, and discounted it. The barn door is a poor design choice, and the lack of a roll down window greatly limits the functionality of the vehicle.
Just my 2 cents.
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Unfortunately, I have long forgotten that I have a roll down rear window.
After 2 years of active offroading, it became unusable. Dealer cleans it, then it works a few times, then I drive another AZ trail and it is game over again (it would not close unless someone is out there to "help" it).
The only time I can use it now is if I have to carry something from Home Depot home so I know that worst case it is in my garage and not sitting somewhere with the rear wide open.
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2018 TRD OP non-kdss, well armored, well used
(6112s/650lb at 2.25" lift, 8100 rear with Bilstein B12 1.5" springs, Mickey Thompson BAJA MTZ LTE 265 70 17, RCI set of front 3/16 skids, Shrockworks step sliders and 3/16 steel gas tank skid, C4Fab rear diff skid, Rockmen rear LCAs, Total Chaos rear LCA bracket skids, Diode Dynamics SS3 white fog lights).
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05-18-2024, 01:23 AM
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#285
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylor99
Kinda where I am, although the R1S is a bit more than I need. I have a deposit down on an R2S. I can wait. My T4R Limited is in good shape with low miles. 2026 will be just about right, timing wise. I'm ready for an EV, and my wife's car is an MDX - so we are covered if we don't want to be charging on a road trip. But even that is getting better all the time.
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Thumbs up for that deposit on R2S. I have a friend with an R1T and he absolutely loves it. If a stock Limited is enough for your offroading, then the R2 would be an upgrade in that area as well.
The R2 is very interesting to me, too, but I prefer dedicated horses for courses so the existing modded 4R and Model Y are the perfect combo for us, knock on wood. I would not drive a vehicle on air suspension like I do mine in the desert, but for a lot of Moab or CO stuff the Rivian would be ideal as well as for some more carefully selected desert trails in various states.
I used the Y in town in the morning with my younger son, then my older son and I drove the 4R on a Baja-style trail near town in the early evening. Best of both worlds. Unless, of course, one can afford a super car and a Mason truck LOL.
EDIT: btw, one has to appreciate just how well the 4R is put together. Mine shows its offroading in minor ways all over BUT it is solid as a rock, no rattles, no issues, nothing but getting the job done. Maybe ditch that MDX instead
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2018 TRD OP non-kdss, well armored, well used
(6112s/650lb at 2.25" lift, 8100 rear with Bilstein B12 1.5" springs, Mickey Thompson BAJA MTZ LTE 265 70 17, RCI set of front 3/16 skids, Shrockworks step sliders and 3/16 steel gas tank skid, C4Fab rear diff skid, Rockmen rear LCAs, Total Chaos rear LCA bracket skids, Diode Dynamics SS3 white fog lights).
Last edited by MAST4R; 05-18-2024 at 01:40 AM.
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