There's much that I like about the new version. Very much for when I'm looking to replace in a couple years. More power, higher tow rating, personally I like the styling, still better than competitor's offerings, etc.

However am i seeing the rear seats correctly? It looks like when they fold it's not anywhere close to flat at all. Not even remotely.

Then in "tumble down" they eat up even more of rear cargo space than the current version.

Please tell me I've got this wrong. If I don't then this one item means I need to look at other vehicles when I replace my current 5th Gen.

How do I get my skis, fishing rods, random stuff from Home Depot, etc, and the one a few northerners understand, my portable ice fishing shack, in the 6th Gen?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP-lxqjQwag

At 6:13 he talks about it this on the Traihunter.

You got it correct, if you want flat then you need to "tumble down" which reduces the length.

They might of done it for cost cutting since the 5th gen had two difference rear seat configs based on whether there was a third row or not. Now the seats are the same for either third row or not. Technically they now have a third combination now with the battery for the hybrid. Tumble seems to work for all 3 combinations.

The TNGA-F platform trucks all seem to have packaging issues with how they did the rear seats and/or the hybrid battery. It started with the Sequoia 3rd row being a disaster and it seems to have made it to the GX550/LC and the 4Runner now too.

I don't get how vehicles focused on over-landing can have such a convoluted cargo area situation with all the seats down. Take a look at the back of a Land Rover Defender 110 or 130 Outbound if you want to see what is possible with better packaging (albeit, not in body on frame platform).

Personally it is not a deal killer for me as we generally are carting around 2 kids, but back before that time we loved just being able to fold the rear seats down and toss our crap in back with no concerns about playing cargo space tetris.

Unless they made the 2nd row delete-able, theyre bound to upset some.

This was likely a cross-compatibility / cost savings measure because of how many different variations to seat combos the 5th gen had. If you need the full space, just pull the one side and keep a single 2nd row seat that flips forward, or vice versa with the larger seat.

But to your question, youre not missing anything. Lay down and they stick up 12", flip forward and you lose 12" of length.

Yes, 100% agree. They ruined the Sequoia with the mess of a cargo area and I was fearful they would do the same to the new 4Runner. It is not as bad as the new Sequoia, but is worse than the current generation, sadly.

The big question is how much total cargo room in there? I contacted Toyota a few different ways today and they declined to give me any cargo space numbers, a bit of a red flag, they did the same with the Sequoia too.

IF I made the jump I was planning to get the larger engine....until I found out you have to get the small engine in order to get the 3rd row....WTF Toyota, another poor design decision.

I guess their hands were tied being a smaller SUV and needing a place for the battery. It is not an 'on road' vehicle so can't put the battery low or exposed.

I already max out my space in my current 5th gen, I can't take a reduction with the new one behind the 2nd row. I am really starting to look at the Tahoes more now or possibly a '24 4R, but the specs I want I dont see one in my area.

Yowza, that's some nasty design and engineering.

Maybe they are still working on a final solution?

It is not comparable with the Sequoia since that has the 3rd row with the hybrid battery.

From all the information I have seen on the 6th gen, third row is only offered in the non-hybrid motor. That is why the LC250 does not offer the third row in the states. Seems basically the same as the 5th gen, solid rear axle is the limiting issue. They just seemed to standardize how the 2nd row folds across all versions. The hybrid actually has additional storage in front and in back of the battery compared to the third row version( assuming it is the same as 5th.)

Until an official number comes out, I think looking at the Land Cruiser and GX550 numbers probably give us the best hint of what to expect. The Land Cruiser with the hybrid system is rated at 37.5 cubic feet while the GX550 is rated at 40.2 cubic feet with the third row and 45.6 cubic feet without.

I find it hard to believe there is more room in the back of the 4Runner given that it is nominally a bit smaller (I think less overhang and also shorter). Thus, I don't see how you don't go down in cargo space, potentially significantly for the hybrid compared to the 5th gen rated at 46.3 cubic feet with the third row and 47.2 cubic feet without.

Now, shape of cargo spaces can matter a lot also, but at best I think you could hope for a non-hybrid 4Runner to come in somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 cubic feet.

As someone who frequently has their 4Runner loaded up close to the roof with stuff stacked on top of stuff for long road trips, plus potentially a pretty full Thule roofbox, the hybrid vehicles definitely worry me that the high load floor space is going to almost render them no longer viable for us either. This would leave the GX550 Overtrail as the one new TNGA-F platform vehicle that could come close to matching the 5th gen 4Runner, but you need to be willing to live with the fact that you will have at best a nominal increase in gas mileage versus a 5th gen.

Then part of me just wonders if I should hang onto my 5th gen (which is close to paid off) and perhaps do something like lease a R1S instead of messing around with the new Toyota and Lexus trucks.

My point more was that the Sequoia is a true nightmare with the 3rd row actually on top of the hybrid battery system. As you said, the combination of solid rear axle body on frame construction with Toyota using relatively large (and inelegant) NiMH batteries has just made a mess of the cargo utility of these vehicles with the hybrid system.

Then, you have the issue of them not trying to design a better seating design for both the GX550 Overtrail or 4Runners without the hybrid power train due to all the vehicles sharing the tilt and tumble approach (which limits the length of your flat load floor area).

If you never fill up your car or have something bigger than what you really need, it's not that big a deal. But for 1 to 2 week long road trips carting 2 small kids around the lower 48, I'd rather be working with all the space I possibly can get.

That there kids is what we call a deal breaker. I was already just meh on the AI designed hodge podge, 1st to 5th Gen + Tacoma nose mashup exterior… this just makes it worse

Unless the tumble configuration magically gives the same cargo depth than the 5th gen, I won’t be able to fit the EVOC Pro & Thule hard case bike travel cases I regularly travel with to/from the airport.

Not to mention my fat bike in the back in the winter

I generally use my cargo area for 2 things beyond the "normal" configuration. 1) larger items that need the 2nd row folded and 2) car camping.

For item 1, the tumble seat isn't ideal, but not nearly a deal breaker. If I need height, tumble the seats. If I need length, just fold the seatback... which is actually marginally better than my current 5th gen.

For item 2, car camping, there really isn't a good configuration in stock form. My 5th gen has the sliding cargo deck which gives a fully flat cargo area. That's a really nice setup. BUT, I'm also only 5'8" and I just *barely* fit between the tailgate and the flipped up seat bottom. So, the 6th gen would require a platform in the cargo area to bring it flat with the folded seatback. Not totally opposed to the idea, because that can have drawers/storage integrated on the 60% side and I can sit down on the seat back with my feet in the well left from the tumbled 40% side.

All in all, I'm very much in the wait and see mode. There's a lot to like about the 6th gen but I have the option to buy my lease out in Feb, so it's ultimately going to come down to what the situation is at end of lease. No particular trim is a total home run for packaging and the Land Cruiser 1958 is a dark horse that I'm also interested in. If I'm only doing 6k or so on my '23, I might just buy at EOL.

I think several of you nailed it with "parts commonality" and keep it simple. One seat config regardless of 3rd row or not. Did a search on the new LC250 and see the same tumble down seats.

Bummer for me but I've got 2-3 years to see if they update with a different rear sear for two row only offerings. Maybe they'll update, here's hoping.

This was an issue for me with 5th gens and they've definitely made it significantly worse - dealbreaker for me.

Really wish they could just go back to the 4th gen style, seemed the best imo.

Took the thoughts right out of my keyboard. 4th gen has about 70 inches of flat cargo area. I use mine like the truck that it is.