Posted Apr 16th 2007 8:54AM by Damon Lavrinc

Toyota's foray into the world of full-sized pickups has taught the company several lessons

One picture is worth a THOUSAND words!

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After I read some of the replies to this post it really makes me think about how people tend to stick their head in sand (or somewhere else) when it comes to change!

http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...0&fpart=1&vc=1

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From the graph, it looks like Chevy is doing pretty well with the Silverados...are they catching up to the Tundra at the end of the graph?? The Tundra is a great truck, but i am still not happy with their open frame design...only time will tell. See my comments in this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showth...4&pagenumber=2

And BTW, does "JohnBrowning" work for Toyota?? He sure sounds like he does.

If i were to buy a fullsize truck, then i would get the Chevy 2500 with Duramax and 6-speed Allison tranny! I think that a fullsize truck needs a diesel, not gas engine. If midsize, then either Toyota Taco or Nissan Frontier.

You know that graph is power #s not sales.

The Silverado isn't making near the power of the Tundra til the end of the power band.

You are kidding about the Chevy? It only makes decent power when it reaches its last 500rpm. The Titan at least makes its power in the usable range.

There is reason why Toyota uses three different types of rail in different parts of the frame. Each different type of frame works better for the stresses related to the section of the frame. The frame on the new Tundra is state of art!

Thay are talking (compairing) about half ton pick-ups. There is only a very small market for the 3/4 - 1 ton truck. Toyota is waiting to see what happens in the 1/2 ton market. They do have plans for the HD market.

Koz

My mistake...i only glanced at the graph and thought that it was sales figures. Oh yeah, we all know that the new Tundra engine is amazing. I assume that the graph is HP...do you have one for torque which is ultimately more important in a truck??

Three different type of rails...hmmm...that's more like cost cutting to me. You do realize that Tundra is the ONLY 1/2-ton truck on the market with a C-frame...all the other major ones are fully-boxed. I like originality, but when everyone else is going towards fully-boxed frame (after using C-frame for years), you gotta wonder! There is a reason why SUVs in the 80's had C-frames and SUVs nowadays are fully-boxed.

Read my link above and the info that i found out about truck manufacturing. I am hoping that Toyota has learned it's lesson with the Tacoma's frame.

The front half of the frame is fully boxed. Toyota says there is no need for the extra weight of fully boxed rails on some parts of the frame. Adding that weight would cut into the truck's payload capacity without improving the ride, handling, safety or durability.

Koz

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Koz, what did you expect Toyota to say?? "Oh, we cut corners and put a weak frame into our Tundra"??

Do you think that the new Lexus LX570 or Land Cruiser will have this "tripletech" frame??

Thai,

You show me one mechanical part on the new Tundra where they cut corners. You had better take a good look at that picture. Why would they use a 10" rear and cheap out on the frame? It probably would have been cheaper to use a fully boxed frame. What they did makes perfect sense to me.

It seems like we picked up right where we left off!:chair:

Koz

Koz, the difference is that you see no evil with Toyota. I am more impartial to all brands.

Why the 10" rear diff?? One word: MARKETING. I am sure that it's a lot cheaper to put in a 10" rear diff than it is to boxed a huge frame. Come on, Koz...you actually think that a boxed frame is cheap??

You never answered my question...if Tripletech is so great ("state-of-the-art"), then do you think that the new LX570 or Land Cruiser will have this design??

Do you have the torque curves of the different engines??

And if you think that Toyota does not cut corners, then read this article: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showth...threadid=27605

The new, boxed frame design offers 49-percent increased torsional stiffness (side-to-side twisting) and 35-percent improved beaming frequency (front-to-back bending), compared with previous-generation vehicles. The stronger frame also supports an increased load capacity of approximately 5 percent.

The frame

As you can see Koz, Chevy also uses a 3-section (front, mid, rear) design on the frame (just like Toyota's Tripletech design), but they also boxed the whole frame and hydroformed the ends.

In the last 10-15 years of SUV/truck evolution, what have we seen?? C-section frame going to fully-boxed frame due to better strength, rigidity, and durability. This is fact. Toyota is attempting to keep status quo while the competitors have moved on. You would think that Toyota has learned it's lesson with the Toyota Tacoma...it's main weakness (beside the weak rear diff on locker-equipped Taco) is the frame. As stated previously, even Car & Driver noticed this in their 30k long term test! (yes, only after 30,000 miles!)

The Tundra otherwise is an amazing vehicle. How do you think Toyota kept the prices down to be competitive with Chevy, Ford, and Dodge?? Let's see...Toyota's engine is superior (and costly to make too), 6-speed auto tranny is great, interior looks beautiful, and a big rear diff. Toyota HAD TO cut corners somewhere to keep the prices competitive. They had to with all the amazing/cool stuff that they were putting into the Tundra. Well, the frame looks to be the result of this in my eyes.

I am critical of this one mistake (??) by Toyota because it's the backbone of a truck. (And one of the few reasons why i am looking at a Frontier instead of Tacoma.) Of all things, i would NOT want to cut corners on the frame. With all the hype about Tundra's pulling capability, i wonder if we will see stories in the future of frame cracking or other failures related to the frame with people who actually do tow at maximum load on a daily basis. A friend of mine tows over the limit every weekend with his Ford F150...not the smartest thing, but he's a part-time farmer and uses his trucks to the fullest. I told him to sell his Ford soon before shit happens! Therefore, you gotta be careful of what you advertise because people will listen and will test the limits.

I like the Tundra and i am sure that it will be a great truck. But for the hype that Toyota is claiming, you have to stand back and take a more UNBIAS view of the claims.

Do you remember VW Touareg commercial where it towed an 18-wheeler?? Oh boy, VW got sued on that one when some owners had issues with towing!

And remember, it is not just me that is critical of the Tundra's new frame design: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/15/d...oyotas-tundra/

You have got to be kidding quoting Mr. Doom & Gloom. Toyota is on a deathwatch. PLEASE! Toyota has the highest profit margin of ALL auto manufactures and now has become the NUMBER 1 auto maker in the WORLD, despite all the recent set-backs. If you would like to debate each issue Mr. Doom & Gloom brings up, bring it.

As far as torque, I don