[Thai]

Link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*

Vehicle Tested:
2008 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4dr SUV 4WD (5.7L 8cyl 6A)
MSRP of Test Vehicle: $55,965

What Works:
Smooth, quiet ride; smooth, powerful, efficient engine; big-as-Montana interior.

What Needs Work:
NBA-player wingspan required to reach east coast of center console; head-bonking power rear hatch button location.

Bottom Line:
Toyota genuinely gets it when it comes to designing a full-size road warrior.

If This Isn't the Best, What Is?
With few exceptions, the 2008 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4x4 appears to be the best all-around eight-passenger SUV available. Its roots may go back to the truck-based sport-utility vehicle, but the 2008 Toyota Sequoia has all the comfort and conveniences of a minivan and it doesn't drive like a truck. This is a huge step forward in SUV evolution.

Sure, this test truck wears a $56,000 price tag, so it will leave some people wondering why it doesn't wear a Lexus badge, and indeed maybe it should. If that's the case, keep in mind that $24,000 separates a base SR5 2WD, at just under $35,000, and the fully optioned Platinum for $58,795.

There are a lot of rings in the Sequoia's profile, with a thick stack of 2WD and 4WD options to suit many needs and budgets. But in any form, this truck stands tall among the current crop of full-size SUV offerings.

[Thai]

Explain to me why a Sequoia has power-folding 3rd row seat while the $73K Land Cruiser does not?!! I wonder how much different this frame is from the Land Cruiser.

[BDL]

There are a lot of these little relationships among the various models that make no sense to me. It's as if Toyota doesn't really consider how people will compare the vehicles. With respect to the rear seats in the LC, the LX DOES have power folding rear seats (see videos on Lexus website), so it can be done.

The Sequoia is way to big for me, but I actually like how it looks, and the price doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

[hubbabubba]

Originally posted by Thai
Explain to me why a Sequoia has power-folding 3rd row seat while the $73K Land Cruiser does not?!! I wonder how much different this frame is from the Land Cruiser.

Perhaps because real men fold their own seats?

But seriously, do the Sequoia seats fold up like the LC or do they fold down into the floor?

edit: Oops, just saw the picture in the article. The LC still has the old fold-up and out of the way as opposed to the Sequoia's folding into the floor.

[Gromulus]

The new Sequoia is probably more in line with what American conumers wwant in a full-size SUV compared to the LC (gas mileage issues aside).

We on this forum are all aware of the Land Cruiser's heritage and (arguably diminished) capabilities. As we all know, most consumers don't even take their SUVs off paved roads these days. They could not care less about a solid rear axle, wheel articulation, or even low range transfer case. They want a large "4WD" vehicle that can carry lots of people and stuff down the highway in comfort at high speed (hey, sounds like a minivan with the exeption of 4WD - oh yeah, that;s right minivans aren't "inl" these days!) The abiity to tow 10,000 is also very important to many buyers as is "bling' for some (Escalade, etc. owners).

With the typical LC coming in at 71 - 72K (and higher for the LX570) I think most consumers won't even consider it when they can get a larger, fully loaded Platinum Sequoia for 14 - 15 K less.

I wonder if Toyota priced the new LC and LX570 models too high for the market. Time will tell.

[GatorGreg]

Originally posted by Thai
Explain to me why a Sequoia has power-folding 3rd row seat while the $73K Land Cruiser does not?!!

Because it's designed to compete against Expeditions for soccer Mom dollars. The TLC, on the other hand, seems to be marketed to a different audience.

[BDL]

Originally posted by GatorGreg
The TLC, on the other hand, seems to be marketed to a different audience.

I agree with you. But how would you characterize the market Toyota targets for the TLC? It's not clear to me. If you look at the slick marketing materials with all the pictures of central Australia and western Canada you'd think it was clearly marketed to people who want to go off the road. (Notice that there are no pictures of women in the 66-page TLC brochure? There are men and dogs, and bears and camels for that matter, but no women.)

But if that were the case why make it bigger, and lower, give it a 20-degree departure angle? I assume they did this to make the third-row seat more usable, a la Sequoia. But doesn't that compromise its usefulness in the Yukon?

I've posted my thoughts on the price before. I think it's way too much. I read somewhere that Toyota thinks the average buyer has an income of $220k, or something like that. There are a lot of people out there in that group, but all the ones I know would rather have an MB or an RR. I went to dinner last night at the local Mexican place and there were two GL450s and a GL550 parked in a row. I still haven't seen an '08 TLC on the road.

All that said, I think it's a great truck, and i'm thinking hard about getting one. But I don't know who the target market is.

[GatorGreg]

Originally posted by BDL
I agree with you. But how would you characterize the market Toyota targets for the TLC? It's not clear to me. If you look at the slick marketing materials with all the pictures of central Australia and western Canada you'd think it was clearly marketed to people who want to go off the road. (Notice that there are no pictures of women in the 66-page TLC brochure? There are men and dogs, and bears and camels for that matter, but no women.)

But if that were the case why make it bigger, and lower, give it a 20-degree departure angle? I assume they did this to make the third-row seat more usable, a la Sequoia. But doesn't that compromise its usefulness in the Yukon?

I've posted my thoughts on the price before. I think it's way too much. I read somewhere that Toyota thinks the average buyer has an income of $220k, or something like that. There are a lot of people out there in that group, but all the ones I know would rather have an MB or an RR. I went to dinner last night at the local Mexican place and there were two GL450s and a GL550 parked in a row. I still haven't seen an '08 TLC on the road.

All that said, I think it's a great truck, and i'm thinking hard about getting one. But I don't know who the target market is.

My opinion, FWIW, is they market the TLC to the folks who can afford to get the MB or RR, but who would rather have Toyota quality and not deal with the negative connotations that sometimes go with driving a luxury brand. For example, one of my brothers gets very expensive clothes, but rips the labels off With the TLC, you can always say hey it's "just" a frugel Toyota (albeit one that costs a crapload )

[Thai]

Originally posted by GatorGreg
Because it's designed to compete against Expeditions for soccer Mom dollars. The TLC, on the other hand, seems to be marketed to a different audience.

Not really...when you pay $73,000 + tax/tag/title, you expect to get a bit of luxury along with capability, right? It's not like the 3rd power thing is something new because the LX570 has it, so it's possible. And when a SUV in the same brand has it for $55,000, then it kinda makes you wonder! (Hell, even the Highlander has it!) I know that the 3rd row design is different between Sequoia and TLC, but since the LX570 has it, you know that Toyota has the mechanism to do it. It seems like Toyota did not want to make the TLC too close to the LX570 so they just blindly cut out features without really taking a step back and look at how much they are asking people to pay for this thing!

The TLC is marketed for who?? Is it for the RR or GL crowd?? Is it for the Navigator/Escalade crowd?? It's kinda in between the two class. Basically, every other manufacturer who offers a 3rd row in this price range has powered 3rd row either standard or as an option.

This is where i do not get Toyota. Once again, Toyota prices the TLC very high...even relatively higher than the previous version, which suck in sales! I assume that Toyota wants to keep the name heritage going without much care about how well it sells since the name heritage goes back a long way. I just don't get the TLC...i get the LX570 because it is what it is...a competition to the luxo RR and GL550. But, how is Toyota going to sell the TLC for $73,000?? It reminds me of the VW Phaeton, which was an excellent car, but it was way overprice and was in VW showroom instead of Audi's...result?? No sales...people actually laughed at paying so much for a VW and getting VW service! Toyota can't compete with other luxury brand in image, nor in warranty, nor in aftersales customer support. (Yes, it's reliable, but you do expect more when you shell out $73,000!) In other words, it's kinda weird that you're taking a $73,000 car to a service station where Scion Xb or Toyota Echo lives.

[BDL]

Originally posted by GatorGreg
My opinion, FWIW, is they market the TLC to the folks who can afford to get the MB or RR, but who would rather have Toyota quality and not deal with the negative connotations that sometimes go with driving a luxury brand. For example, one of my brothers gets very expensive clothes, but rips the labels off With the TLC, you can always say hey it's "just" a frugel Toyota (albeit one that costs a crapload )

This really made me chuckle, because yesterday I finally got to drive an LX570. It was a busy day at the Lexus dealership, lots of people around. Then we went to lunch and I told my wife that as nice as that truck is, I'm not sure I want to be a Lexus person. So maybe you put your finger right on it.

[BDL]

Originally posted by Thai
It seems like Toyota did not want to make the TLC too close to the LX570 so they just blindly cut out features without really taking a step back and look at how much they are asking people to pay for this thing!

I agree with this. To your power third-row, I'd add the power liftgate and the air suspension as items that should at least be available. Oh, and something other than ugly plastic "wood" in the interior.