Yes, and it started out very poorly from the first sentence. Lexus didn't have the same problem. Different company with a different mission.

You suggested that Hyundai needs to get rid of their $9000 car if they hope to sell a $60K car. I suggest that Hyundai keeps their $9000 car and instead creates a separate luxury division if they hope to sell a $60K car.

So what makes you think I didn't read what you wrote?

Actually, Jed, according to Lexus book, that was one of the major problem with lexus when it came out. People were associating Lexus with Toyota. Only through Lexus diligent customer service (amazing stuff Lexus did early on to make customers happy!) did Lexus separate themselves from Toyota. It was not simply due to "different name."

And, in recent years, Hyundai has distance themselves from Kia...maybe not enough, but they are trying. This is why Kia has moved upscale to compete directly with Toyota...see Kia new models. And Hyundai is trying to move one league above Kia. My guess is that Hyundai is thinking that they already have a division for cheap cars (Kia)...so, why not just use the Hyundai name for its upscale division, instead of creating a new one and facing more issues with that. (Lexus had several legal and other internal issues when it created Lexus.) This may turn out to be a good idea...saves money for Hyundai. Back in 1990s, Toyota did not have a cheaper division...it was just Toyota. So, unlike Toyota in 1990, Hyundai has a cheaper division already in Kia.

But, like i said above, the problem is that this upscale Hyundai still sells $9000 cars on their dealer lots. That is going to be a problem for potential Equus owners who walk into the showroom floor and see the Equus next to an Accent. Now, if Hyundai gets rid of their lesser cars and push customer service to ridiculous levels (which is seemingly what they plan to do), then Hyundai is not that much different than Lexus back in the 1990s. Remember, there are many people who bought a $40k+ Hyundai Genesis instead of a Lexus or a Bimmer. So, Hyundai is already ahead of 1990 Lexus in some eyes.

And yeah, i don't think that you understood what i wrote....

Now, i may not be the typical car buyer, but i will gladly take a Toyota over a Lexus if it can provide similar goods. In today's world & economy, i am paranoid about my and my family's safety. Driving around with a luxury brand car may attract the wrong attention. I did not like the attention that i got when i drove the Mercedes around. This is why i limited myself to Toyota when i was shopping for my hybrid. I did not need the extra attention at the local Walmart or McDs.

In addition, the cheaper maintenance of a non-luxury car is a major plus! So, if Hyundai can make good on the Equus, then a few people like myself may consider it over a more prestigious German brandname. Stranger things have happened!

Of course people were associating Lexus with Toyota...how could they not? And they still do this today. The thing you don't seem to realize is that Toyota could have NEVER been successful selling the same Lexus vehicles we see today under the Toyota nameplate....especially at those prices. Never would have happened if not for the "Lexus" brand.

Sure, but the problem there is that Hyundai has already established itself as a brand of inexpensive vehicles. Rather than try to change that image, why wouldn't they attempt an upscale division instead? Actually, I don't think they are ready for that yet. I like the fact that they are now producing vehicles that have nice styling and nice features for a competitive price. The jump to a $60K car is premature and I'm surprised they are even trying that market at this point in time.

Yeah, I agree that it is going to be a huge problem. So much in fact that there car will be a sales disaster. No doubt about it.... A $40K Genesis is already a stretch....and a $60K Hyundai? I don't think so, especially in this economic climate. I wonder how much money Hyundai stands to lose on this deal?

I understood it...I just didn't agree with it.

There's nothing wrong with that line of thinking and I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel the same way. But you seem to be ignoring the price factor. People who spend $60K+ for a new vehicle typically want the prestige as well. Face it, price is what really separates "regular" cars from luxury cars. Sure, you get more bells and whistles on most true luxury cars, but you can get most of the same features for less money on a lot of "regular" cars as well. Any car will get you from point A to point B, so you have to ask yourself why would people be willing to spend 3 or 4 times the average cost of a new car on a luxury car. My guess is that the biggest reason is the prestige factor. Features and amenities is probably the second biggest factor. Just my opinion....

BTW, there are rumors that VW is bringing back a newly designed Phaeton with more economical engine options and a lower MSRP.

I guess a $90K VW just didn't sit well with buyers in the USA.

Jed, Toyota is selling a $70k+ vehicle (Land Cruiser) and a $40k car (Avalon). Not sure if it's true, but Hyundai states that the Genesis ($40k+) is the best selling luxury midsize sedan or something like that. So, unlike Toyota in 1990, Hyundai is ALREADY selling a pricey sedan...so, although i agree with you that it is a stretch to sell a $60k car, things may work well for Hyundai...who knows?! Americans have such short term memory that they may not even remember the days when Hyundai was selling $9000 car...this is why i think that Hyundai will trash (or demote) the cheaper cars to Kia over the next year or two.

I am sure that you're right. Of course, i did spend $70k + on a SUV just to trash it off-road.

That's because you're nuts.

I think they sell like 3 of them per year. LOL. An interesting comparison would be a Toyota Land Cruiser and the Lexus GX. My guess is that the Lexus far outsells the Toyota, but I haven't looked up the sales numbers.

The thing is VW Owned Audi, and the Phaeton was a basically an A8 with a VW badge, the same isnt said for this Hyundai.

Exactly. And the VW still failed miserably.

The Equus is already widespread in Korea, and being a country of 50 million people, it is a decent market, especially since 95% of Koreans buy Korean cars. I don't think it matters too much whether it succeeds so well overseas.

I wouldn't say it's widespread....the car made its debut in 2009 (yes, in Korea) so it's not exactly common from what I've read. There's an interesting blog about it on the Hyundai-Blog website where a few Koreans chime in and claim that affluent Koreans tend to prefer German luxury vehicles. Apparently the Equus is a rare car even in Korea.

BTW, in Korea the Equus has a price tag that is the equivalent of $96K in U.S. dollars!

OK, this is the second generation one now. I missed it as I was leaving Korea last summer when it would have started to hit the roads. The first generation is all over the place, but I get the feeling it is die-hard older men who prefer it. The new rich (30 and 40 something professionals) do seem to enjoy their German cars and other pricey foreign cars. They have to pay the import duties as well, which makes the vehicle even more luxurious--they have "money to burn" so to speak.