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Old 07-21-2012, 09:51 AM #1
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Starter Question

Yes I searched around but could not find something like this. I was getting the click when you turned to the key and had to get out and tap the starter and this worked but was a PITA so I replaced it and all was good for first day then on day two the new starter started doing the same thing. I cleaned all the contacts when I replaced it and everything else looked good.

What else could be causing this or did I get a bad starter?
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:22 PM #2
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Maybe your starter relay?
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:44 PM #3
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Starter contact relay could be worn. On occasion you can put tension on the main wire bundle running to the starter and while doing so have someone else turn the starter over. If successful, this confirms the starter relay is bad.
Hope that helps.....
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:33 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlewis74 View Post
Yes I searched around but could not find something like this.
I'm not surprised - nobody EVER has intermittent starter trouble. Ever.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:58 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidVermicious View Post
I'm not surprised - nobody EVER has intermittent starter trouble. Ever.
Electrical relays seldom "heal themselves."
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:59 PM #6
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aftermarket non toyota starter?
i would have replaced the brushes in the oem starter a billion times over or have no starter than to by a non oem starter. the aftermarket ones are junk
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:17 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyoTech View Post
aftermarket non toyota starter?
i would have replaced the brushes in the oem starter a billion times over or have no starter than to by a non oem starter. the aftermarket ones are junk
It had a NAPA on it already when i got it and it was still under warranty to thats what I did. And yes there are plenty of threads about starters but the ones I clicked on did not discuss replacing it and the problem still being there. And trust me the owners of this site dont care if there are a 1000 threads on the same subject as it helps their rankings!
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:41 PM #8
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The Basics...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlewis74 View Post
Yes I searched around but could not find something like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidVermicious View Post
I'm not surprised - nobody EVER has intermittent starter trouble. Ever.
Yes, this is a very rare problem. ;)

This just occurred to my 86 Runner again today, but this time I felt starter relay click. Possible problem that I need to verify:
Starter relay contact has high resistance
Ignition switch ST1 contact has high resistance
Starter solenoid stuck

jlewis74,
Please search harder Many things could go wrong with the starting circuit. Do not simply guess, replace parts and waste time and money - verify.

Start with the basics:
  • Understand how the starting (cranking) circuit works.
  • Make sure you have clean wiring, good contacts including ground strap on starter.

I hope this simplified explanation of how the starting (cranking) circuit works would help:

  1. Putting Ignition switch in "Start" position sends power (low current in green) to energize starter relay (located here). Have someone start the truck and listen to/feel the starter relay click. (It also sends power to Circuit Opening Relay to start fuel pump, but that's a separate system)

  2. Starter relay contacts close sending power (higher current in orange) to starter solenoid though this connector, that plugs into starter solenoid here. (Starter solenoid piggy-backs on starter.)

    Starter solenoid has larger coil than a relay because it has to pull in a plunger that closes heavier starter contacts to handle extremely large cranking current, and possibly actuate clutch to engage flywheel and starter gears (I'm not sure whether 4Runner starter has bendix drive or clutch)

  3. Starter solenoid contacts sends power from heavy wire (directly connected to the battery) to starter to turn it.

Voltage drops/Corrosion/Resistances

Poor (loose/corroded/pitted) contacts have high resistance. It is quite possible to have high resistance on ignition switch ST1 contacts, relay contacts, solenoid contacts, and wire connections, including ground straps. This will result in too much voltage drop across the contacts when there is current flowing through it.

Starter solenoid needs high current through its coil in order to actuate the plunger. Even if the individual components of the starting system seem to work/energize/click, there may be too much voltage drop across these components. Once you add up these voltage drops, you may end up with too little voltage (hence current) to energize the starter solenoid.

Pitting/corrosion of relay contacts will cause too much resistance across them, that altho relay clicks, you may not be getting full power though it.

A starter that works when smacked could mean:
  • Starter solenoid plunger mechanically hard to actuate and there is not enough current to move it. Smacking may get it unstuck.
  • Plunger actuated and attempts to close contacts but because contacts are pitted/worn out it takes a little help to make them close all the way.

BIG BOO-BOO:
Note on schematic that starter solenoid control (coil) power is also taken from ignition switch ST1 contact, same contact that the start relay is supposed to relieve of the solenoid control current in the first place - DUH!

My next mod to bypass ST1 contact would be to move terminal 4 of starter relay to fused wire directly connected to battery. (This is similar to what the Painless Wiring Hot Shot relay mod accomplishes.)
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Last edited by RAD4Runner; 07-21-2012 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:32 PM #9
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I had the exact same problem last week. had to switch in a new starter in the parking lot of a BUSY gas station.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:43 PM #10
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Quote:
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I had the exact same problem last week. had to switch in a new starter in the parking lot of a BUSY gas station.
I feel ya, did the alternator in a bank parking lot.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:53 PM #11
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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
I feel ya, did the alternator in a bank parking lot.
That suckss. I ended up putting the new starter in after every backwoods mechanic in NC stopped and insisted I was doing it wrong. Put the new one in and still ended up having to get it towed back to VA
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:58 PM #12
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starter contacts ..

just because it a "new " rebuilt starter I wouldnt count on that .. BENCH TEST first


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Old 07-22-2012, 06:47 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlewis74 View Post
It had a NAPA on it already when i got it and it was still under warranty to thats what I did. And yes there are plenty of threads about starters but the ones I clicked on did not discuss replacing it and the problem still being there. And trust me the owners of this site dont care if there are a 1000 threads on the same subject as it helps their rankings!

i didnt say anything about there being a 1000 threads on this. i hate when others say use the search. if those dont wanna help dont even reply to the thread. if its so easy, why not help the guy out and post up the answer or the thread that can help him.

seeing as the starter works after hitting it. im still gonna say your contracts and/or plunger is worn down. if it was the relay, tapping the starter wouldnt make a relay start working. i have also seen corroded battery cables cause excessive draw making the starter click as well. now, when i tell them to check the cables, they just look at it. you have to look at each end and anywhere that is exposed and really look into it to see if its all corroded or not. i steam clean my engine all the time so everything looks brand new but when i peeled back the battery cable for a similar issue, i found the cable to be all corroded from the inside. anyways good luck and let us know what you find
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:57 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyoTech View Post
i didnt say anything about there being a 1000 threads on this. i hate when others say use the search. if those dont wanna help dont even reply to the thread. if its so easy, why not help the guy out and post up the answer or the thread that can help him.

seeing as the starter works after hitting it. im still gonna say your contracts and/or plunger is worn down. if it was the relay, tapping the starter wouldnt make a relay start working. i have also seen corroded battery cables cause excessive draw making the starter click as well. now, when i tell them to check the cables, they just look at it. you have to look at each end and anywhere that is exposed and really look into it to see if its all corroded or not. i steam clean my engine all the time so everything looks brand new but when i peeled back the battery cable for a similar issue, i found the cable to be all corroded from the inside. anyways good luck and let us know what you find
Thanks man I quoted you since I was responding to the toyota or aftermarket starter. The tapping it making it start is what had me puzzled. I will check the battery cables I am sure it would not hurt to replace them anyway. Thanks for your help and I am like you, I hate when the response is use the search feature.
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