I'm going to assume you don't disagree the ideal is 4 chains, 4 new tires, etc. I assume you mean you would chain the front. I would still maintain that, if for some reason you can only do 2, the rear is generally preferable for stability under braking. AFAIK tire shops will refuse to mount 2 new on the front. I wouldn't even want to think of what it would be like going down hill with little or no traction on the back.

I think my point was that A/T or M/T tires are poor choices for winter driving period. They lack the softer rubber for good grip in cold and at least marginal grip on ice, little or no siping, reduced contact area, etc. They are basically a joke for the mixed and rapidly changing conditions (sometimes over literally a few blocks) that make up winter. You can go from 10 inches of snow and ruts on a side street to a polished intersection around the corner. You can hit a patch of black ice on the highway any time. Freezing rain can turn to heavy snow over a few hours but with the ice just under a few inches. etc.

That's why I said:
"When there is ice on the road, traction devices are required."

And I also said:
"When there is ice (underlined in original post), chains are required because rubber, no matter the lugs does not bite into ice."?

How many words do I need to say so it is clear that I agree with you


- LOL!

Although we may be violently agreeing. I think there is one important subtlety here that is my point.

Forget all talk of chains and studs for a moment. As winter tires, summer AT/MT tires generally bad. They are made for off road durability and grip in loose material, with massive lugs and spaces that clear easily. E.G:



This means in most winter conditions, except perhaps a heavy snowfall with no ice or hardpack underneath, they tend to suck:

-The rubber is hard in low temperatures since they are generally made for durability, thus reducing grip on all surfaces including ice and causing the tire to conform less reducing contact area;

-The large lug spaces further reduce contact area on surfaces from ice to dry (but possibly 25 below) pavement; and

-There is generally little to no siping that is critical for grip on many hard surfaces, particularly icy or wet ones.

Here is a proper non-studded winter tire for comparison:



Note the large amount of siping, greater contact areas, and (what you can't see) the softer/low temperature rubber compounds.

I am trying to get across that for broad winter use you don't want MT/AT tires at all. The ability to stop and chain them up is moot. You aren't going to stop and chain up except for the very odd event. You need proper tires all the time because there is often ice and hardpack everywhere and/or anytime. Even with out studs proper winter tires have far superior grip on ice without having to break out the chains. Leave the MT/AT stuff for playing around off road in the summer.

Now apologies if you also agree completely with this. It just seemed to me you were suggesting that AT/MT tires with chains in the back seat were a viable option for anywhere with actual winter.

Yep, got your point, and thanks
We do not get real winters here in So Cal, so I was only referring to times when there's snow on mountain roads and Hwy Patrol allow 4WD without chains to proceed.

Also agree with the studded tires. If we had real winters here, I would surely prefer to just have the studded ones throughout the winter months. I remember one time I was in L.A. when there was some sort of competitions among schools nationwide, and I saw an SUV from Colorado (IIRC) driving around Sunny L.A. with studded tires.

I noticed that the Wrangler Duratracs are studdable. Would be nice to have the studs on mountain roads.

Holy damn but those boys need a web designer. My eyes are bleeding.

yes, 4 would be ideal.

and again, like I said, that's NEW. its used to be they would only put them on the front.

again, going the proper speed on ice, when running chains, the just running them on the front will be fine.

im just thinking this is going to be on a short section of road. if im wrong, and the intended use will be for quite a bit of time, I would opt for all 4.

but, having ran chains a handful of times in my life, even just the fronts will give you an unprecedented amount of control and traction. even on sheet ice.

Wow, thanks for all the replies! I'm running M/Ts, and no I can't get a set of winter tires lol.. I did score some wider wheels though, my stock wheels are way narrow and suck on these roads.
Basically I'd be sliding on two points up my dirt/poorly graded gravel road, both of which are 10 degree incline according to my trusty angle gauge thingie, (Yay Toyota!) and one is a sharp left turn goin' up.
I mean assuming I can stay close or up against the hill to better grip on snow/rocks I think chains would only be on bad days.. or after neighbors packed it down with their vehicles..
Eee you guys are funny though, looking up the stud laws and such for me - much obliged! :-)
To reiterate, chains on all 4 (of course I'm goin slower than 30mph.. omg lol)
And basically the chains are all alike, even the more expensive ones?

Mostly, yeah. The biggest differences will be in how easy they go on and how quickly they wear out.

What are the wider wheels going to do for you? I'm confused.

I'm running the stock 7 inch wheel and 10.5 wide tires, has nothing to do with winter weather but boy they suck in mud and corning on twisty roads going 50 mph (people pass me going 75 here, boy can they drive!)
Neighbor gave 'em to me for $150, they older mickey thompson wheels 10 inch wide - I'm seeing some 35s in the future to fill up those fender flares ;-)
I'm getting the right lugnuts for 'em and then will post up pics