User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-11-2020, 04:51 PM #1
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
No start (no click/no crank) when engine hot.

(1990 Toyota 4Runner, Automatic, V6, 3L, SR5, 3-VZE)

I have intermittent start problem for a while now and everything in the path of Starting System and Charging system have been checked, cleaned and/or replaced (mostly replaced) based on people’s recommendation on other threads and my own research without results (except I have not touched the distributor yet), but my finding is that it happens more often during the hot season (70 Degree or higher) and long distances (>25 miles)(I have heat shield installed around the starter too). It won’t happen during the winter time as often. I am convinced it has to do with a heat sensitive part!

In this post the only thing I am interested to know is: What heat sensitive parts would prevent car from starting (no click, no crank)? I appreciate it if the answers and comments concentrate on this subject.

Based on what I have researched and read, for example,
Coolant temp sensor may cause rough start but not a no click/no crank start problem. ( just ordered one anyway and will replace this)
The heated Oxygen sensor may cause engine light to come on but it would not stop the car from starting.
Bad thermostat may cause engine temp issues but would not prevent engine from starting.
So, what heat sensitive parts could prevent the car to start (with no click/no crank at all)?

To recap, please note that:

(1990 Toyota 4Runner, Automatic, V6, 3L, SR5, 3-VZE)
1_ It is an intermittent problem and not a hard fail. (it won’t fail when you want it too!)
2_ When it fails to start there is no click or crank!
2_ Even in the summer, as long as the car is running it is fine and temp gauge always reading normally). It is only after a stop and shutting engine off that there is >90% chance the car may not start.
3_ Engine light never come on when this happens and there is never an engine code failure registered.
3_ It always starts after an hour or two of waiting without doing anything

Thanks in advance.
hadia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 07:25 PM #2
jbtvt's Avatar
jbtvt jbtvt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 412
jbtvt has a spectacular aura about jbtvt has a spectacular aura about
jbtvt jbtvt is offline
Member
jbtvt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 412
jbtvt has a spectacular aura about jbtvt has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by hadia View Post
(1990 Toyota 4Runner, Automatic, V6, 3L, SR5, 3-VZE)
In this post the only thing I am interested to know is: What heat sensitive parts would prevent car from starting (no click, no crank)? I appreciate it if the answers and comments concentrate on this subject.
Ignition coils are known to do this, more common on small engines but does happen
__________________
'85 4Runner, 22re 5spd; '90 4Runner, 5spd, 3.4 swap
'98 GS400 1uz; '07 GX470 2uz
jbtvt is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 11:01 PM #3
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
Thank you for the suggestion jbtvt! Previously out of suspicion, I replaced the coil control module (not the coil) and that did not help. To verify the coil, I loosened the coil contact and I got a rough start and an engine fault. When my No Start problem happens I expect the Engine light on or a fault registered, but there are none; the reason I have not replaced it!
hadia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 11:39 PM #4
jbtvt's Avatar
jbtvt jbtvt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 412
jbtvt has a spectacular aura about jbtvt has a spectacular aura about
jbtvt jbtvt is offline
Member
jbtvt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 412
jbtvt has a spectacular aura about jbtvt has a spectacular aura about
Edit, on second thought you say no crank, it should still crank with a bad coil, missed that on my first skim through. If it doesn't die on its own and is strictly limited to a starting issue you should consider rewiring your start circuit, Pick up this thread from here - Gevo's 91 4Runner Build Thread - Page 19 - YotaTech Forums O2, coolant temp etc are irrelevant to anything other than proper running after start and closed loop mode is entered

4. INSPECT PRIMARY COIL RESISTANCE
Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between
the positive (+) and negative (–) terminals.
Primary coil resistance (Cold):
0.36–0.55
Primary coil resistance (Hot):
0.45–0.660
If the resistance is not as specified, replace the igni–
tion coil
5. INSPECT SECONDARY COIL RESISTANCE
Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between
the positive (+) terminal and high–tension terminal.
Secondary coil resistance (Cold):
9.0 – 15.4 k
Secondary coil resistance (Hot):
11.4 – 18.1 k
If the resistance is not as specified, replace the igni–
tion coil.

Distributor check is attached as image. There's also a whole section (pages, too long, not copied) about the plug wires, which can lead to coil failure. Not mentioned here in the FSM is the "tap" test for testing the igniter. I can't remember how to do it off the top of my head, Google should know though.
Attached Images
No start (no click/no crank) when engine hot.-untitled-jpg 
__________________
'85 4Runner, 22re 5spd; '90 4Runner, 5spd, 3.4 swap
'98 GS400 1uz; '07 GX470 2uz

Last edited by jbtvt; 01-12-2020 at 11:49 PM.
jbtvt is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-13-2020, 02:26 AM #5
RAD4Runner's Avatar
RAD4Runner RAD4Runner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,836
RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about
RAD4Runner RAD4Runner is offline
Senior Member
RAD4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,836
RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by hadia View Post
(1990 Toyota 4Runner, Automatic, V6, 3L, SR5, 3-VZE)...
So, what heat sensitive parts could prevent the car to start (with no click/no crank at all)?...
Please clarify,
1) This is "No-CLICK, NO-CRANK" problem correct? Starter and engine does not turn at all, OR
2) No "Combustion" problem. Motor turns but air-fuel mixture is no ignited.

If (1), do not mess with ignition or fuel injection system. Look at cranking system.

You have an automatic so current needed to energize the starter solenoid has to travel a very long way and through a neutral safety switch which MAY BE AT THE TRANSMISSION* so may have dirty contacts. This causes too much power loss over wiring and contacts.

BUT BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, pls check if your starter solenoid CONSISTENTLY works when you apply 12V directly from battery to its control pin as shown on my post here:
RAD4Runner's 1986 4Runner dlx Build-up - Page 43 - YotaTech Forums

See more on my post on Yotatech. Here:
Starter Relay Re-Wire or Retrofit for 95 and earlier Trucks / 4Runner - YotaTech Forums









* I don't know because I have a 22RE with manual tranny
__________________
86 4Runner, 22R-Eliable, 5-Speed Manual, dlx. WHAT'S YOURS?
If you want us to help from afar please let us see, hear, feel what you're dealing with.
A picture paints a thousand words.
Toyota components are bullet-proof. Issues often arise from poor wiring, assembly and/or maintenance. Suspect those first.
Next only to our senses, the multi-meter is the most important electrical diagnostic tool. Spend $6 at Harbor Freight or $$$ blindly replacing parts.

Last edited by RAD4Runner; 01-13-2020 at 02:40 AM.
RAD4Runner is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 08-25-2020, 08:47 PM #6
pelantire pelantire is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Kelowna
Age: 36
Posts: 16
pelantire is on a distinguished road
pelantire pelantire is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Kelowna
Age: 36
Posts: 16
pelantire is on a distinguished road
As previously stated by RAD4Runner, I would suspect your starter and all electrical cables. Also, clean up all of your grounds to the block and fuse box.
pelantire is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-12-2021, 04:55 PM #7
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
Hi. Its been awhile and I have got used to the pain of this problem. Yet, I have read more and I have a question.
Without refreshing what the problem is I would like to know if anyone can tell on 1990 Toyota 4Runner 3VZE, 3.0L,V6, where is the location of the Ignition Switch Relay (not the ignition Switch itself and not the Starter Relay). I thought it would be located somewhere at the end of steering column inside the car but, I don’t see anything looking like the Ignition Switch Relay my search produces for my 4Runner and shown in the image here. Thank you!
Attached Images
No start (no click/no crank) when engine hot.-4r_ignitionstarterswitch-jpg 
hadia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-14-2021, 05:36 PM #8
Griswald's Avatar
Griswald Griswald is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 108
Griswald is on a distinguished road
Griswald Griswald is offline
Member
Griswald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 108
Griswald is on a distinguished road
Did you fix it yet?
When it doesn't start, what happens if you try and jump it?

Does it start when you jump it? What if you try and just attach some cables to the battery and the other end to some metal on the car - will it start then? Or if you wait 2 hours, will it start again then? If yes to any of those, did you do RAD4Runners mod to bypass the relay?

I had a very similar problem which several mechanics could never figure out. What was happening was that the starter (which was working fine) was not getting enough juice from the battery, b/c the juice had to travel half way around the vehicle from the battery to the starter to get it to go. It was a $10 mod w a little bit of wire, fuse and solder.... and since then, it has started every time.

RAD4Runner might be able to assist should that be the issue. You'll want the wiring schematic for that year. Look at his threads on the topic.
Griswald is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 11:06 AM #9
FordF150 FordF150 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: nassau bahamas
Posts: 69
Real Name: Tommy Bahamas
FordF150 is an unknown quantity at this point
FordF150 FordF150 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: nassau bahamas
Posts: 69
Real Name: Tommy Bahamas
FordF150 is an unknown quantity at this point
Replace the starter

$90 at Amazon

Amazon.com : 4runner starter

don't have it "fixed"

Last edited by FordF150; 04-15-2021 at 11:13 AM.
FordF150 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-16-2021, 01:42 PM #10
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordF150 View Post
Replace the starter

$90 at Amazon

Amazon.com : 4runner starter

don't have it "fixed"
I wish the Starter was always the cause of all start problems. That would be so easy to take care of. Starter has already been replaced and I have even covered it with heath shield. Almost all parts involved with Ignition System and Start System has been replaced. Thank you for the suggestion anyway!

Last edited by hadia; 04-16-2021 at 01:44 PM.
hadia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-16-2021, 01:47 PM #11
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
Oh boy!!! Griswald, you really asked the right questions, I am exactly experiencing the same issues. I believe you may be the one with the right answer. Because it is not a hard failure and does not fail when you need it to, mechanics cannot figure it out and just want to keep replacing parts until they get lucky. Anything I suspected I replaced myself, at least I didn’t have to pay labor cost!

I either have to wait for a couple hours or jump it. Not any jump, it has to be a strong jump starter. My Lexus ES300 car battery wouldn’t jump start it but a good size truck usually can jump start my 4Runner. So I have bought a JUMP-N-CARRY 12V JUMP STARTER 1700 PEAK AMPS and I keep it fully charged to start my car when the no_start problem happens. That is how I am getting by.

If this problem gets resolved this 4Runner can run at least another 100k because almost every part under the hood has been cleaned, repaired, tested, adjusted or replaced except the bare engine block. Engine runs smoothly when it is working and every year is passing the California strict Smog test.
I very, very, very much appreciate it if you kindly provide me with a simple drawing of your fix and materials/parts used. I have the original Toyota shop Repair Manual.

Thank you!
hadia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 02:30 AM #12
RAD4Runner's Avatar
RAD4Runner RAD4Runner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,836
RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about
RAD4Runner RAD4Runner is offline
Senior Member
RAD4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,836
RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordF150 View Post
Replace the starter

...
Jumping to conclusion.
__________________
86 4Runner, 22R-Eliable, 5-Speed Manual, dlx. WHAT'S YOURS?
If you want us to help from afar please let us see, hear, feel what you're dealing with.
A picture paints a thousand words.
Toyota components are bullet-proof. Issues often arise from poor wiring, assembly and/or maintenance. Suspect those first.
Next only to our senses, the multi-meter is the most important electrical diagnostic tool. Spend $6 at Harbor Freight or $$$ blindly replacing parts.
RAD4Runner is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 02:37 AM #13
RAD4Runner's Avatar
RAD4Runner RAD4Runner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,836
RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about
RAD4Runner RAD4Runner is offline
Senior Member
RAD4Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,836
RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about RAD4Runner has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by hadia View Post
(1990 Toyota 4Runner, Automatic, V6, 3L, SR5, 3-VZE)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelantire View Post
As previously stated by RAD4Runner...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griswald View Post
...did you do RAD4Runners mod to bypass the relay?
...
EXTREMELY LONG PATH OF STARTER SOLENOID COIL CURRENT WITHOUT STARTER RELAY ON ALL TRUCKS UP TO 1995 WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:



You can analyze it all you want or hesitate to fix it or spend approx $12 worth to parts and 30 minutes to fix.
Starter Relay Re-Wire or Retrofit for 95 and earlier Trucks / 4Runner - YotaTech Forums
__________________
86 4Runner, 22R-Eliable, 5-Speed Manual, dlx. WHAT'S YOURS?
If you want us to help from afar please let us see, hear, feel what you're dealing with.
A picture paints a thousand words.
Toyota components are bullet-proof. Issues often arise from poor wiring, assembly and/or maintenance. Suspect those first.
Next only to our senses, the multi-meter is the most important electrical diagnostic tool. Spend $6 at Harbor Freight or $$$ blindly replacing parts.
RAD4Runner is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 02:29 PM #14
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
hadia hadia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
hadia is on a distinguished road
Thank you very much. This is very helpful and I believe is the answer to my problem. This diagram is for 22R model, mine is 3VZE, v6 model. I Just have to figure out my wiring since component locations are different. Not sure when I get this done but I will post an update when that happens.
Thanks again, I appreciate it very much!
hadia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-03-2021, 11:17 PM #15
calicojax's Avatar
calicojax calicojax is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 110
calicojax is on a distinguished road
calicojax calicojax is offline
Member
calicojax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 110
calicojax is on a distinguished road
First. The ground wires on these old trucks go bad from the inside out.. they will show continuity but will not carry the load..
The starting circuit runs through the gear selection switch on the side of the trans. The start "relay" part goes bad. Nothing else wrong with the switch. And they are pricy to replace.
There is a write up on yotatech on how to bypass the switch and run a new relay. How ever after the bypass. The engine will start in any gear. best of luck
calicojax is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
car , crank , engine , start , starting

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
99 won't start, no click Gospinn 3rd gen T4Rs 37 07-20-2021 11:16 AM
Won't start - one click Bugsy 3rd gen T4Rs 29 02-25-2020 03:18 PM
Just a Click, but no start YnotinCO 3rd gen T4Rs 13 02-13-2014 12:14 PM
2003 V6 Won't Start - One click and that's it 66Mhz 4th Gen T4Rs 17 12-07-2013 10:24 PM
Starter Click, Click, Click. Jump starts immediately??? daugherty83 3rd gen T4Rs 17 09-18-2009 03:46 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020