I'm looking at buying a 2008 4runner. I've done my homework - Consumer Reports, Edmunds and etc. I found a car I'd like to buy, contacted Internet sales desk. Got a fax for dealers invoice. There is a $3,300 price difference on what Consumer Reports and Edmunds say is dealers invoice and what Toyota says is dealers invoice. Toyota guy says that CR and Edmunds are wrong. Unfortuantely, we can't agree on a base starting price (dealer's invoice). Now I agree that the guy needs to make a living and should make a profit, but what am I missing here? I understand there is a marketing fee and some overhead stuff - but $3300.00 right off the bat? I feel like I've had the air punched out of me.
Help me understand please!

over here they charge an arm and a leg for transportation to the dealership which includes insurance, and some other fluff etc. also do make sure that these are identical spe'd cars you are talking about with the same exact options.

either way it seems unlikely that CR & edmunds are BOTH wrong by the same amount. sounds to me like the dealer is trying to fleece you. try contacting another local dealer and see what he/she can offer you.

Ask the dealer to see the invoice on the vehicle you're buying. Most dealers will have no problem producing the paperwork. Just make sure it's real.

BTW, most published figures for invoice pricing that you'll find on the Internet are legit, especially if you find the same exact numbers at two different sites. You might want to visit a different dealership if yours is full of shit.

Mindmaze, Edmunds pricing is indeed correct. Just understand that the Edmunds starting invoice price includes the wholesale financial reserve and the dealer holdback amounts. The Toyota vehicle inquiry report breaks them out seperatly. Read over my Purchasing Page, fill out the excel spreadsheet and let us know which items the dealer is saying dont match up.

Okay - if I have read this correctly, Dealer adds Marketing and Advertising fees, plus holdback (even though they get that holdback amount from Manufacturer) to Dealers invoice. I am paying for their advertising and paying them a holdback amount they will get anyways? So, in essence, they build this $3300 into their dealers invoice and say they are giving me a deal if they sell me a car $500 over dealers invoice.

Why doesn't Edmunds and KKB and CR add this into their dealer's wholesale cost? The guys from Toyota act like this $3300 is non-negotiable. I've contacted different dealers - all the same. These guys don't want to sell a car.

Why does GM and Ford and Nissan behave differently? The Toyota guys are acting like this built in profit is automatically a given and they want more in addition? Think how many more cars they'd sell if they weren't so tight.

Wonder if it's different elsewhere in the US?

Thanks for all your responses.

Here is an awesome site I used a few years ago when buying the truck: http://carbuyingtips.com/

Lots of great negotiating tips and tricks. Sounds like you're on the right track though...

Yes, Correct. The Edmunds or KBB invoice price do include the holdback and wholesale financial reserve but do not include the dealer advertising fee. These three items, you would think would be somewhat negotiable, are typically something the dealer will not negotiate. But understanding them and letting the dealer know that fact allows you to get closer to invoice price if not invoice price itself.

Thought I had a deal. $267.00 under invoice..... then found out it was a demo with 3000 miles on it. Asked if it would come with a discount.... NO.

All the other cars in stock have extra options I don't need that jack the price up. Makes me wonder if he knew it was a demo in the first place. Who knows...

If I order a 2008 4runner, is a salesperson more likely to work with me since they don't have to do any marketing, don't have to hold it on the lot, and they will without a doubt get the holdback? Or is this not advised?

Thanks again.

I hate buying cars! Very frustrating. Think how many more sales a salesperson could make if they would shoot straight up and not act exactly like the people we are told to look out for! Every line the articles I have read has been given to me. And when I ask directly, "isn't that a cost that you get back when you sell the car" and they hem and haw and say "well, I suppose it's a fee...."

Three times I've had different people give me a bid on a car they don't even have! Do these guys go to school to learn to be idiots and/or liars/snakes? And what sucks is you have to deal with them to get to the car!

Okay - nuf complaining.

Guys, I did this

I got on the web site of my 3 nearest dealers. I had done my research and knew what I wanted and what options before I contacted anyone. Including checking their inventory, which some dealers post on their web site.

Then I filled in their on line forms, which go to what they call the 'Internet Sales Manager'. I got 3 quotes from them, all were under sticker. Then I took my trade in to a Nissan dealer and got a trade in price and a purchase price on their top of the line dodad, I even forget what its called. Then I went to the Internet manager at the dealer with the best price, told him what I had and told him to beat the trade in by $1,000 and he could have the deal. And he beat the trade in by $1,001 and so I got the car I wanted.

The only part of the deal I did not like, was I tried to get them to swap the rims and tires on the T4R I wanted and they wouldnt do it. So now I have a new set of Revo's that cost me another $950 fitted

and my T4R Limited, is a very nice, very well behaived 4X4 in mud, snow, dirt and on asphalt and Im getting about 21mpg

very happy boy indeed

kind regards

joe

Well, On Dec. 31, 2007 I bought my first 4r Limited. I paid dealers invoice. I did it through the Internet Sales desk and it was in stock and ready to go when I showed up. No additional surprises or pressure to add on anything. And guess what!!!,

I'm loving it everyday! This forum helped me understand alot and led me to come to terms with advertising and marketing costs. I have to believe Toyota salespeople are cleaning up. Wonder what they make yearly? Hmmmmmm.....

Thanks for all the advise. Now I have to learn how to use everything in my new car. Life is Good!

mindmaze

Swung by a local dealer here to check out a vehicle they had that fit what I wanted pretty well. Was ready to buy but they wouldn't budge on the Internet price 1 cent. Got up and left. Will wait until I check the other stock levels at the remaining dealers and see where it's at. One annoying thing in my region is they all have the 10 speaker stereo which I really don't want/need. Would rather have the base radio and save $600 or so. pfft.

Were you okay with the Internet price before you went to check out the car?

You mention being ready to buy, but they wouldn't budge. I found the advise on this forum extremely helpful. Find the car you want (check inventory and then go look at it). Then go home and negotiate with Internet desk from your house. Their goal is to get you out to the lot. Don't go there to buy until that price is agreed upon from home. Good job on walking away. It's not easy - grrrrrrrrr! But you will find another one. The sales people know humans base most purchases on emotion.

Get the Internet desk to send you total price (with the Dealer's invoice) before you go to buy. I bought the upgrade speaker system and love it. I can plug my ipod in, it sounds great and has a 6 cd player. Yes, I could have installed my own, but it wasn't too bad of a price. I know $600 is alot, but don't let that one thing keep you from buying. Every car I looked at had the upgraded JBL speakers too. I was beginning to think it was just standard.

Well the price was a little higher than I wanted to pay, not by a whole lot but a bit. The reason we went to the lot was to test the V8 as my previous trip to the dealer was on a V6. At the time my wife and daughter (~20 month old) were with me so we were running out of time in that department and didn't get a chance to compare V6 to V8. Decided I like the V8.

I'm clarifying my pricing I received from the dealers now, requesting out the door pricing with any fees broken out. I just wish they would all be consistent in how they price. Also wish we could just search stock by country to see who has what at a glance. Seems silly we can't do this...having to go thru 12 dealers web pages to find stock is silly.

I remember when I was in the market for my 4Runner, it took me 3 months (research plus dealership visits) I wasn't in the rush because I didn't have all pricing done. I used CARBUYINGTIPS.COM (maybe one of the best websites), Edmunds, and other car websites that offer pricing comparisons. I haggled with the dealer, one even said that I should be going to the Disneyland to buy the car that I wanted for amount of money that I was willing to pay. Anyways, with much research and patience I purchased in Sept 07, 2007 4Runner Sports Edition with extras for the price that I wanted.