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Old 03-26-2012, 03:57 PM #1
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HIDs: Everything you need to know and then some....

Part 1 of 2

I put this together from various websites that offer correct information regarding HID lights. References are located at the end of this thread. Here you will find basic information on what HID light is, bulbs and how they emit light and their Kelvin ratings. You will also find applications of HIDs including installing them in a reflector headlight vs. projector housing. Glare and aim are also topics that are important to discuss should you decide to “go for it”. For those interested, the most popular projectors will be mentioned with links to well-known places to get them. I can include pictures of them if you want, go ahead and ask! Anyway, costs of required hardware and services, in case you decide NOT to do it yourself, will also be mentioned. Please realize that HID light, when not offered in a car from the factory is illegal. We can discuss this topic until the cows come home, but it is illegal to modify your lights. Period. This forum no doubt has a great many members who decide to “mod” their vehicles with products that say “for off road use only”. We are all guilty of it. This thread should educate you on “how to do it like the pros (just like it came from the factory)” and perform your mod to your lights SAFELY and CORRECTLY. I will try to state physical facts and leave subjectivity out of the discussion. Sit back, get comfortable, grab a beer (or whatever) and enjoy.


Before we start, here is list of terms that we will discuss or touch upon:


Terms:

Watt- Measure of electrical power (w)
Volt- Measure of electrical charge (v)
Kelvin- Measure of color temperature (K)
Lumen- Measure of light brightness (lu)
Capsule- technically correct term for a HID "bulb".
Candela- Measure of light intensity (cd)
Ampere- Measure of electrical current
Cut-off- A distinctive line of light produced by the shield in a headlight that blocks light above a certain height in order to prevent blinding of oncoming motorists.
Beam Pattern- The pattern of light that is projected onto the ground which includes angle of lateral dispersion, width and depth of illumination.
Capsule- Another term for an HID bulb. Some refer to HID bulbs as gas discharge capsules.
Optics- The lighting control assembly structured around the bulb, which effects the dispersion of light and it's characteristics to a great degree.
HID (High Intensity Discharge)= Gas Discharge
Halogen= Incandescence

What is HID?

HID technology is also known as gas discharge (High Intensity Discharge) and is quite different from halogens. HID uses a capsule (bulb) with two adjacent electrodes positioned in close proximity to each other. The capsule sends these two leads to an electronic HID ballast. The ballast is an electronic module that has a circuit board lined with several small high current capacitors, transistors, and resistors. This ballast acts as an ignition box to fire up the gas discharge process, and as a control unit to regulate a steady power flow. The HID capsule is filled with a rich mixture of noble gases as well as alkali earth metal salts. In this setup, the noble gases and metal salts are actually used as part of the lighting processes instead of as a buffer (as with halogens). For quick ignition, the ballast takes in a small amount of input power of 35 watts at 12 volts and inducts a solid-state charge of 25,000 volts to the positive electrode. This creates a very high-powered arc of electricity across the electrodes, which excites xenon gas into discharging photon particles (light). This process is known as the Gas Discharge Principle.

The light is relatively cool burning compared to halogen, consumes much less power, and produces much more light at a much higher color temperature. Halogen lighting in automobiles has become an archaic technology and is steadily being replaced by HID lighting systems in more and more automobiles. They are no longer limited in availability as high-end luxury amenities. Nissan, Toyota, GM and Ford are already offering factory HIDs in some of their cars.


Bulbs / KELVINS:


Now that we know what HID is, let’s continue to where it takes place. The capsule or bulb. The common mistake some people hear is that all these high kelvin rated bulbs are "the ones to have". If it is brightness you are after, then they are wrong. The higher you go in kelvin, the less light and lumens you'll have. So what is the best bulb out there then you ask? 4100-4300k.There is a reason why auto manufactures use this kelvin rating. It has the most lumens out of all the HID bulbs produced. Below is a graph showing you the variances of the light spectrum. As you can see, 4100k would be right where the "sweet spot" is on that chart. It produces near to the suns same kelvin thus giving you daylight-like output. Think of it like this, high kelvin bulbs would be like being out in the sun with sunglasses on vs. a 4100k being in the sun w/o glasses on.

Misconceptions:

"Why does my friend's headlights look brighter than mine and he has xxxx-K temperature bulbs???"- The reason higher Kelvin bulbs may appear brighter is that they are actually glaring more off of the road surface. Glare is NOT how light output is measured. It's annoying, very distracting and dangerous for oncoming drivers. Anything above a 6000K color rating is extremely ineffective & can be deemed practically useless. 6000K is generally the highest Kelvin rating you can go without losing too much luminosity or creating too much glare. The higher the Kelvin rating, the lower the lumen output is.

When the Kelvin rating is above 6000K, generally the lumen rating is around 2000 or below. This actually puts the HID output level back in the category of Halogen Output. What about 3000K HID bulbs? A 3000K HID bulb is designed for foul-weather or fog situations. 3000K produces a yellow light that cuts through rain, snow & fog better than a white light.






Kelvin and its relationship to Lumens:


Standard OEM halogen 55W 9006(HB4) = 1100 lm (lumens)
* these ratings are approximate (lumens are a measure of intensity and Kelvins are a measure of color so a direct relationship isn’t easy to graph directly, but here is the best chart I could find)



Here is a list of Kelvin and Lumens. Please disregard the brand (Philips). These are here as a guide only.

4300k D2S Philips = 3200 lm (lumens)
4300k D2R Philips = 2800 lm (lumens)
4300k D2S Philips = 2400 lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4300k D2R Philips = 2000 lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4800k D4S/R (brand) = 3800 (lumens) ** brightest in the market
5800k D4S/R (brand) = 3300 (lumens)
7000k D2S other = 1790 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
7000k D2R other = 1390 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2S other = 1180 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2R other = 780 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)

As you can observe, anything higher than 8000k, the light output significantly drops off, causing the light to be almost useless, less than halogen bulbs.

Here is picture, again these values are approximate, I include this for clarity.





Why 4100-4300K? OEM thoroughly tested.

4100K has been proven through tireless independent research by the Germans, Japanese, and Americans to be the most functional, truest white and thus the brightest possible color temperature. At this Kelvin, they produce the most lumens which is what you want.

Every car manufacturer in the world (including BMW and Audi) uses none other than a standard 4100K gas-discharge bulb. The reason being is that 4100K is daylight white in color and produces the same color visible light as direct sunlight. This is least fatiguing functional color on the eyes and produces the most comfortable contrast on the road.

Ballast:

The HID ballast is a counterpart to the bulb, and must match its electrical requirements exactly to the mixture of gas/salt in the bulb. The requirement is to turn 12volts DC into both an explosive charge at 24,000 volts momentarily, and then match the steady state 85 volts AC that the 35 watt capsules require to stay lit. This requires high frequency switching transistors, and makes a lot of heat and is very taxing. Smaller manufacturers may skimp on components inside the ballast, may not have water proof enclosures, or simply have a bad design which doesn't last.

HID Ballasts & Ignitors are the power plant of your HID system. A poor quality ballast will decrease the lifespan of your HID bulb. A ballast has two important functions. The first is to take the 12-volt input and turn it into a 20,000+ volt arc which ignites the HID bulb's Xenon gas & salts (this is also sometimes referred to as the headlight's "pretty startup". To me, it looks like a fluorescent light is turning on). The second function is to stabilize that arc and maintain it throughout the duration of the bulb being on.

A good quality ballast uses LESS amperage than a standard 55/60 watt halogen bulb. Startup amperage is generally spiked at around 9-10 amps for less than a fraction of a second & once the arc is stabilized it uses around 3-4 amps @ 35watts. Your average halogen bulb uses nearly 6-7 amps @ 55/60 watts ALL the time. Less amperage means less strain on your alternator and electrical system.

There are a variety of different ballasts available, each with their own fitment & rating. OEM ballasts such as Mitsubishi, Matsu$hita and Denso have often been used in the world of HID Retrofits due to their long-term reliability, durability & fail-safe features.

Aftermarket ballasts have always been viewed as less reliable and more troublesome than anything. This is mostly true, especially with the cheap Plug-n-Play Kits seen advertised everywhere. Morimotos are known to be very reliable aftermarket ballasts. OEM ballast such as Densos are second to none. Densos are the real McCoy (as the others mentioned above).

Look for ballast that are potted and/or waterproof. Because of the nature of an off-road ready 4Runner and water, this feature is especially important.

Relays

A relayed wiring harness will allow the user to safely wire up their Xenon/Halogen lighting and horn systems by running power directly from the battery through a relayed harness that will be triggered by a factory connector. This way you can assure the stock wiring system is not overloaded; which can cause long-term issues such as wires melting or even catching on fire. Using relays eliminates the need to power up your lighting system using the already insufficiently thin stock wiring. The output from your lighting system may be compromised if you do not use a relayed wiring harness since so may experience significant voltage drop by directly taking power from the stock wiring. Using relays and our thicker gauge wiring provides the right amount of current carrying capacity to bring your system up to full performance in a safe way.
Some have suggested that no relays are needed, but I like to err on the side of caution.

Reflector vs. Projectors:

This is a very touchy subject for people in most automotive forums. Can you install an HID kit into your reflective headlight (all generation 4Runners except 2006-2009)? Of course you can, many have done so including yours truly. Is it the correct way? Optically speaking, no. The following will give you a better understanding as to why this is. No doubt you will notice a much brighter light in front of your truck, but glare and hotspots are an issue.

Halogen Reflector

A factory halogen reflector housing uses a specific focal point & reflector design to control light output. This design is based around a halogen bulbs 360 degrees of light output or illumination. A halogen bulb creates 360 degrees of light due to its use of a filament.



HID bulbs have no filament for their light output. Light is created by an arc igniting gases inside the bulb capsule. When an HID bulb is lit or on, it also doesn't emit light in a 360 degree pattern such as a halogen bulb. The light output is more of a controlled pattern with the brightest light (off-white/ slight yellow) being emitted downward & center, and the slightly less bright light (whitish/blueish) being emitted at the ends of the arc.

Generic Plug-n-Play (PnP) HID Kits Output

Essentially a Plug-n-Play Kit takes an HID capsule and fits it onto a halogen style bulb base (H11, H7, 9004...etc.). When these kits are used in a halogen headlight setup, the control over light output is severely diminished. "Hot-Spots", glare & an undesirable beam pattern are usually the end results.

Generic Plug-n-Play (PnP) HID Kit

A Plug-n-Play kit's HID components are typically not high quality. The ballasts, a very important component of any HID system, are usually not reliable, burn out due to moisture damage and/or draw an excessive amount of amperage from your wiring upon start up.

A Plug-n-Play Kit will certainly put more light on the road, assuming you use the proper Kelvin color temperature. However, it's not the correct kind of light. As stated above it creates "Hot-Spots", glare & an uncontrolled/undesirable beam pattern that are all unsafe and end up giving HID's in general a bad name.

Here you can clearly see the hot spot in the middle.


Here is what it the beam pattern should look like (light uniformity)



An HID Projector is what actually emits the light in a retrofit setup. It projects the light created from the HID bulb in a controlled pattern. HID Projectors are the heart of any Retrofit project.

Here is a cut-away of an HID projector. They are basically the same except for certain measurement and lens.

FX-35 Projector Cut-away



HID Projector:

An HID Projector usually consists of a Back-Bowl, Bulb Holder, Front-Bowl, Lens and Cutoff shield. Bi-Xenon projectors have an additional component called a solenoid that moves the Cut-Off shield when required, to activate the high beam function.



The bulb holder does just that - keeps the HID bulb held Firmly in place/position. This is important as a mis-seated bulb can cause for an improper level of light output.

The back-bowl is what actually reflects the Xenon HID Bulb's Arc Light towards the front lens. The wider your back bowl is, generally, the wider & deeper your output beam can be. A good quality back-bowl is made from a cast metal. This allows for better strength, durability & reliability from the internal chrome finish.

The front-bowl is what holds & positions the lens in place. The projector lens is a critical piece for optimum light output. It's positioned in the front bowl for an optimum focusing so that the light output is clear, crisp and aimed properly.

A cutoff shield is what limits or shields the light output so it doesn't blind oncoming drivers or create excessive glare. This is what creates the light steps.

A bi-xenon solenoid is directly connected to the cutoff shield. This simply drops or lowers the cutoff shield with a 12 volt power supply to create a high beam light pattern.

A bi-xenon solenoid in action:



Lens

Lens, as seen on the diagram above, it what "focuses" the light from the capsule/back of the projector bowl, onto the road. Most use what is called a "Plano Convex" lens. I'm not going to bore you on specifics (unless you are a physics geek), but this type of lens is what is most used on HID projectors.

Here is a diagram:




Video of BiXenon (most are basically the same)



Can I put HID into my stock halogen reflector lighting assembly?

Again, Yes you can. But it is strongly recommended that you do not. Any reflector or projector designed for a halogen bulb will not work with HID. The reason is the different ways the two bulbs emit light (as mentioned beforehand). Halogen has a small filament in the center of the bulb, whereas hid has a very large arc tube that emits light. The two require completely different optic design for the lens. The hid reflector and projector are designed based on the geometry of the hid bulb and how it emits light. Although it may not seem so, directing the light produced by a headlight bulb to the right places requires a good deal of precision. Reflector assemblies on cars that come equipped with halogen bulbs are made to direct the light produced by halogen bulbs correctly. Replacing those bulbs with HID bulbs that produce three times the light yields a very disperse and unorganized beam pattern. You will have light going all over the place, most importantly into the eyes of drivers of oncoming vehicles. Here is where many people claim “they see much better”. Fact is, the LIGHT should be on the road, as governed by the US Department of Transportation. The glare to oncoming traffic is what many manifest this to be a safety issue. Many people try to solve the glare problem by lowering their lights. However, to reduce glare to acceptable levels, you would have to lower HID lights in halogen reflectors so much that you would not have much of a useable light increase over your stock setup.

The Subject of Glare:

COMPARISON OF HID AND HALOGEN GLARE


Public concern continues about the glare produced by an increasing number of new HID headlamps. In 2001, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) asked drivers to submit their opinions on the issue of glare and its many sources. Although drivers complained about the use of fog lamps in normal weather conditions and indirect glare in the rear-view mirror from sport utility vehicles (SUVs) and trucks, the single most complained-about source of glare was the HID headlamp. Many drivers stated that these headlamps are too blinding and dangerous. Other drivers said the blue color is distracting and uncomfortable. On the other hand, drivers who own the new headlamps praise the increased visibility they provide. The owners commented on how safe they feel at night driving with these new headlamps and how well the headlamps light their forward view.(12) However, Phase II of the ENV project showed that drivers’ preference for HID lamps was not associated with increased visibility. Although drivers rated the HID lamps as helping them better detect and recognize objects, the objective data indicated that the HID lamps chosen for this study often performed worse than other VESs (ENV Volume XII). Other research has found a subjective preference (i.e., less discomfort glare) for halogen headlamps over the HIDs.(15) Some researchers believe this subjective difference in the perception of brightness or visual discomfort may result in part from the differences in spectral power distribution of the two headlamp designs. Halogen headlamps tend to have a warmer appearance because their spectral distribution is predominantly comprised of longer wavelengths. In contrast, HID designs have distinct peaks of spectral power throughout the visible spectrum, with more output in the short wavelength portion of the spectrum. This results in HID lamps having a slightly bluish appearance. Spectral power distributions for typical HID and halogen headlamps are illustrated in figure 1.



source:
Introduction - Enhanced Night Visibility Series, Volume XIV: Phase III—Study 2: Comparison of Near Infrared, Far Infrared, and Halogen Headlamps on Object Detection in Nighttime Rain, December 2005 - FHWA-HRT-04-145

Picture of beam cut off in PnP kit vs. HID Projector. Above the cut off, there should be NO light.


Again, pictures are sometimes a poor way to properly show glare, but here are a couple of good enough photos.





Video of Toyota 4Runner 2001 PnP kit VS. Retros:



Still not convinced? Check this video of the crackdown they are doing in the UK regarding aftermarket HID lights.



Illegal HID conversion kits explained - Auto Express - YouTube
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Last edited by CookieRoe; 09-05-2013 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Added some info
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:59 PM #2
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continued......

Part 2 of 2

4Runner headlight types:

Now, 2006-2009 4Runners come with projector lights from the factory. They are not perfect, but I’ve seen some members who installed HIDs on them and have pretty impressive cut offs. 2003-2005, 2010-Present (2012) have multi-reflective headlights. The “back side” of the headlight is what “focuses” the lights onto the road. All other generation 4Runners have a sealed beam type headlight. This is older technology that uses a lens (in front of the headlight) that disperses and “aims” the lights onto the road.

Projectors are better suited for HID light. Now that we have that established, which ones to get? There are many types to get. One should decide if they want a single (low beam) kit or a bixenon (low and high beam) kit. The following projectors are the most popular. Get the ones that are better suited for you and your budget.

What and where to get Projectors?

Some links to the most popular projectors: On these sites, you will also find other components crucial to your HID system. Depending on whether you want a simple single (low beam) projector, you can spend as little as $120 (approx.) to as much as $450 for Lexus LS460 bi-xenon projectors. Realize this doesn’t include the cost of the harness (usually comes with a relay), shrouds, etc etc. As I mentioned before, If you want to see some pics and a small/brief description of projectors, let me know!

1) HID Projector Headlight Retrofit for Subaru, Honda, BMW, Scion and More | LightWerkz.net
2) HID Projectors from The Retrofit Source Inc
3) HID Projector Lens | Retrofit Projectors | OEM HID Projectors

Who can Retro my lights for me?

Realize our 4Runners have “huge” headlights that will accommodate pretty much any projector out there including the coveted LS460 projector. Combinations are endless! Well, now that you know what to get, can you retro your lights yourself? Yes? Awesome. No? That’s ok. There are services, although limited, that provide the service of taking your lights apart, installing your projectors and components (bulbs/projector/shroud) and sealed them back up nicely. These services prices range from $400-800 depending on the job involved. Not cheap, but realize this service includes doing it correctly (that it installing the projectors correctly that are rotationally correct, that you can still adjust your lights using the factory adjusters, are sealed properly, etc.).
Retrofitting services:

1) HID Projector Headlight Retrofit for Subaru, Honda, BMW, Scion and More | LightWerkz.net
2) Headlight Retrofits - Custom Lightz - The HID Headlight Projector Retrofit & Parts Specialist
3) www.lightmodz.com (site is not up yet, but is listed on hidplanet)

Other Hardware

Shrouds

We’ve covered Projectors, bulbs, ballast and touched the subject of relays and wire harnesses. When speaking of this, shrouds are often included as well. All shrouds are, are covers, usually chrome, that surround the base of the projector giving it a “clean look”. There function is to cover up the sides of the projectors, rear and are basically 100% cosmetic. When shopping for shrouds, inquire the vendor you are using to see which shroud best fits the projectors. Centric Rings MAY be needed so the shroud you choose fits snuggly to the projector. Again, ask the vendor you are going to use. They SHOULD know.


Butyl Sealant

Preferably, use Koito Butyl Sealant when putting your headlights back together. The stuff is said to be the best on the market. Heating of the material is necessary to “ease it” into the crannies of the headlight casings where it will seal to the other part of the casing (headlight casing to plastic clear cover).

Headlight adjustment information:

Aiming & Aligning the Output of your lights is a very important step. An HID retrofit that's done on your headlights doesn't mean you won't blind or annoy oncoming drivers - lights need to be installed & aligned properly.

There are three dimensions to consider when adjusting headlights: Horizontal, Vertical & Rotational. The first two apply to all headlights (retrofitted or not), while the third aspect primarily relates to retrofits.

Horizontal Alignment


Horizontal alignment is the side-to-side adjustment when considering the output beam pattern. On an HID retrofit, this is very clearly defined as the cutoff step. If your headlights are adjusted too far to the left you will blind oncoming drivers.

Vertical Alignment


Vertical alignment is the up-and-down adjustment when considering the output beam pattern. This is also referred to simply as the height adjustment. This is a critical adjustment as All drivers on the road can be blinded if done incorrectly.

Rotational Alignment


Rotational alignment is the measurement in degrees (often done visually) of the projectors cutoff lines in a circular field of range. This is particularly important to vehicles equipped with HID projectors; especially an HID retrofit setup. A difference of just 1-2 degrees can mean inches at the cutoff lines.

Correct Output & Cutoff Pattern


Properly retrofitted headlights should have a clean cutoff line with no hot spots, excessive glare or mis-aligned light. Their color flicker should also appear sharp & crisp when viewed at the proper height.

Correct Color Flicker at 15 feet, Correct Color Flicker at 40 feet

The example pictures shown here are of a vehicle retrofitted with S2000 projectors. They've had shield/color mods done to them and are using 4100K bulbs. Lots of exotic color flicker, very bright light output and no unwanted glare or hot spots.

The best way to align your headlights is to first start off with a large open area that contains a broad sided building & flat level parking ground. The less visual interruptions (cars, trees, signs etc.), the better. This will allow you to measure, adjust & properly aim your lights before a test drive.

The left (driver's side) headlight is always used for measurements & aiming. This is the side that has the most capability to blind oncoming drivers.

The initial step is to pull the vehicle approximately 25 feet away from the side of your building.

Left Side Height Measurement


Next, measure the height from the center of your Left projector to the ground & the height of the left side of the beam. Compare the two measurements. The end result you're after is to have the beam on the wall be 2 inches lower than the height measurement of the projector.

So for example if your left (driver's side) projector is 40 inches from the ground, you want the left side of the beam to measure up at 38 inches. The right (passenger side) headlight is very simple to align next as it simply needs to be adjusted to the same height as the left (driver's side) side.

Bad Rotational Retrofit

As you pull farther back from the wall the two steps should "merge" into one step. If they overlap too much or don't cover the gap in the center a slight horizontal adjustment may be needed.




4Runner specific (How to adjust them). If you see a better thread/pictures le t me know so I can post that information.

1st Gen: couldn’t find anything very graphical
2nd Gen: couldn’t find anything very graphical
3rd Gen: How to Adjust Headlights
4rd Gen: Aiming Headlights on 4th Gen 4runner
5th Gen: Headlight Aiming


Anyway, Last step is a road test. On the road you want to be aware of how the new lights are performing. Take note of the cars in front of you at around 30 to 40 feet on a fairly level road surface. On a typical automobile your lights should illuminate the back bumper and license plate area. If you are lighting up their rear & side view mirrors, your lights are aimed too high. If you are lighting up below their bumper & undercarriage, your lights are aimed too low.

HID life?

How long will my HIDs last? Many manufactures will say something like 2500-3500 hours. It depends a lot really on the quality of the components you are using. After time, as with anything, intensity will diminish. On HIDs, a phenomenon known as color shifting occurs. The “white” light gradually turns blue then purple. It’s simple because the salts in the capsule (bulbs) are degrading. When changing HID bulbs, it is recommended to change BOTH of them to avoid Looney Tuney color difference. The following is a chart that depicts approximate hour usage vs. brightness (lumens).




Flash to Pass Problems??

Flash to pass. Is this an issue for your HID Bulb/Ballast? The jury is still out on this one. In theory, it COULD be. Realize when the ballast is first turned on, the bulb is cold and the amount of energy the ballast is taking in is significant. When one "flashes to pass" their HI beams quickly, you are not giving the bulbs enough time to properly warm up. OEM equipped cars don't appear to have this problem, but then again, depends on the quality of the ballast/bulbs you purchase. Don't forget, this applies to MOST applications, the 4Runner is wired for the HI beams to turn on WHILE the low beams are on. (at least for the 2003-2009 models)


ETC:
More vids of Retros on 4Runners:




4Runner HID projectors w/ CCFL Halos - YouTube

Conclusion:


Now that you are informed about HID lighting, it’s time to find the right combination of components for your generation 4Runner. Again, as stated at the beginning, modification of headlights is illegal whether you use a Plug and Play kit or a retrofit. A PnP kit will attract attention whereas a retro should not due to the nature of a retro (beam pattern). Also, the Kelvin ratings of the bulb you choose. Choose 4300K and chances are no one will notice. On my Civic, a friend told me they thought I was an Acura behind him. A 4300K kit should not attract attention as much as a bulb rated at 6000K or higher.

Future:

LED lighting is starting to appear in OEM applications. The Prius has LED headlights as optional equipment as well as the Lexus LS460. For the time being, LEDs are becoming mainstream as “marker or DRL” on Audis, MB, Lexus, Chrysler etc. The aftermarket doesn’t offer anything in ways of replacing the headlights, but if you wish to add on marker/DRL, there are products out there.

I hope this thread was informative for you. If you decide NOT to head the information put forth here, that’s OK. I am no one to tell you what to do. At the very least, you can pick out quality components (relays/ballast/bulbs/etc.). Most importantly, It is my hope that this end many “HID flame wars” that are becoming common place on forums everywhere. I personally think the T4R.ORG community is a great and civil one. We all have something in common and that is our love for our 4Runner trucks. We all want what’s best for them!

Information Sources:

1) HiDplanet : The Official Automotive Lighting Forum - The Buzz
2) The Retrofit Source online: headlight upgrades for all applications
3) Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
4) Introduction - Enhanced Night Visibility Series, Volume XIV: Phase III—Study 2: Comparison of Near Infrared, Far Infrared, and Halogen Headlamps on Object Detection in Nighttime Rain, December 2005 - FHWA-HRT-04-145
5) intellexual net ∑ m k i v
6) HID Projector Headlight Retrofit for Subaru, Honda, BMW, Scion and More | LightWerkz.net
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Last edited by CookieRoe; 05-03-2012 at 04:56 PM. Reason: material added
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:33 PM #3
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Great post so far, I'm not sure your explanation of "bad rotational adjustment" is correct. Based on the picture, the projector is rotated and the only way to fix that is to open the headlight and fix the mounting usually, and it doesn't have to do with the steps merging, that is the horizontal adjustment usually
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:05 PM #4
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Very nice CookieRoe...Now if A Moderator can plz sticky this and close the thread for posting please...Thank you.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:08 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitebeauty View Post
Very nice CookieRoe...Now if A Moderator can plz sticky this and close the thread for posting please...Thank you.
Why would it need to be closed already?
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:12 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieRoe View Post
4300k D2S Philips = 3200 lm (lumens)
4300k D2R Philips = 2800 lm (lumens)
4300k D2S Philips = 2400 lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4300k D2R Philips = 2000 lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4800k D4S/R (brand) = 3800 (lumens) ** brightest in the market
5800k D4S/R (brand) = 3300 (lumens)
7000k D2S other = 1790 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
7000k D2R other = 1390 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2S other = 1180 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2R other = 780 lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
This section also seems to be missing some information. The 5800k philips that are 2400lumens are the ultinons or 85122WX, not sure why they are listed at 4300k. The rest of the bulbs are missing brand information
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:18 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackiswack View Post
This section also seems to be missing some information. The 5800k philips that are 2400lumens are the ultinons or 85122WX, not sure why they are listed at 4300k. The rest of the bulbs are missing brand information
Yes it does! The "brand" info really shouldn't be there. I included that list (literal copy and paste) because it was basically the only thing I found on Kelvins vs. Lumens. The "brand" is irrelevant. It is an approximation, nothing else. Sorry for the confusion.

EDIT: corrected!! As I stated, the brands are irrelevant.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:55 PM #8
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Stickied. Let's keep it open to get some additional feedback on the writeup, after which we'll close it to let people ask questions in their own thread.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:26 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
Many people challenge the concept that HID bulbs in Halogen headlamps are 'bad' lighting.
This thread was inspired by another thread. So with help from Markus, I went to a site:Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

That had a GREAT explination on why HID bulbs in a Halogen designed lamp are wrong.

1. It is importantant to understand that headlamps are designed to meet govt standards.
each manufacturer goes after those standards in their own way.
they use:
Halogen bulb w/ reflector lamps
Halogen bulb w/ projector lamps
HID bulb w/ reflector lamps
HID bulb w/ projector lamps
Each one is designed with the exact type of bulb and can't be swapped back and forth. These designs are computer generated based on the the exact bulb.
here is a generic example of a projector lamp:


2. HID and Halogen are two completely different light sources.
A hid bulb has 2 hot spots at each end of the light.
a halogen bulb only was one.
since the hot spots are in different locations and generate light completely different, an hid bulb won't work in any halogen lamp (reflector or projector) because the light will hit the inside reflective bowl incorrectly. As Markus says "you can't defy physics!"



3. A commom event here at hidplanet.com is the picture with the clean cut off. While that is 1 way to evaluate light, it is not the standard that the lamps are designed to.
Safety, for the driver and other drivers is a major driving force in the design and bulb choose. Lumination in the proper places is also a major considerstion.
light is desgned to be in the correct places so your eyes don't get tired or fixated on a particular spot. There is also concern the the distance light fades properly.
I have taken the reports from the above site and created a condensed version (see repots at website for FULL disclosure)
This report is for:
US Dept of Tran.
Natl Hwy Traffic Safety Adm
Office of Vehicle Saftey Compliance
Federal Motor Vehicle
Safety Standard 108
Lamps, Reflective devices and assoc eq.

here is the test result. They tested a ORSRAM XENARC D2R 35w. in a halogen reflector lamp.
I have posted the correct halogen bulb results next to the PnP hid results:



THe hid name brand bulb failed in the halogen designed lamp. At some points the light is 20 times too bright!

Here is the color chart of the failed bulb:


(tell me your camera sees all that!!!........ i'm just sayin..........)

Here is another test result from the same web page:



These charts make it very easy to see why hid in any halogen designed lamp is just wrong.
the light is all over the place.

Hopefully, these helps explain that 'yes, there is a science behind the design of headlamps.
And just because the base of the hid fits in the base of the halogen designed lamp, doesnt mean it works correctly.

Light's effect everyone else on the road. They are designed not to create burn spots in the retnia of the other driver. When putting an HID in the halogen lamp you are effecting the safety of the other drivers.

The fact is that any modification of headlamps is illegal. And for pretty good reason. The only safe (and illegal) modification is with a complete projector housing 'properly installed'.
I think this post and some of the other posts in this thread are also useful to convince people not to install HIDs in their halogen housings with quantitative data.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:39 AM #10
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Science/Physics don't lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by crackiswack View Post
thread are also useful to convince people not to install HIDs in their halogen housings with quantitative data.
Great info! I was going to include those EXACT same charts and stuff, but decided not to (didn't want it to be too long). I also didn't wanted to go into too much depth about projectors. I figured that would be too technical.

Surprised no other members with retros/or projectors have chimed in and/or included pics of their setup.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:40 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieRoe View Post
Great info! I was going to include those EXACT same charts and stuff, but decided not to (didn't want it to be too long). I also didn't wanted to go into too much depth about projectors. I figured that would be too technical.

Surprised no other members with retros/or projectors have chimed in and/or included pics of their setup.
The results from that testing were on halogen reflectors with PNP HIDs, which is directly applicable to all 4runners except 06-09 years. I'll post some pics of my setup once I get a chance to get some decent pics.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:57 PM #12
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Flashing

Added "Flash to pass" issue that comes up from time to time on HID forums. There doesn't seem to be a "this is how to deal with it" answer, but I put in what the consensus is.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:48 AM #13
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i think u need to add a link from hidplanet about bulbs, oem hid bulbs vs aftermarket hid bulb, there is a huge difference in terms of performance and output of the light.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:02 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riceandpho View Post
i think u need to add a link from hidplanet about bulbs, oem hid bulbs vs aftermarket hid bulb, there is a huge difference in terms of performance and output of the light.
That's not a bad idea. I didn't include that b/c I just wanted to keep the information "generic" so it doesn't look like I'm promoting brand x over y. I'll throw in some links as a "FIY". Thanks Tom!
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:24 PM #15
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Brand Bulbs (capsules), where to get.

HID Bulbs:

here is a list of bulbs availalbe through this online store.
HID Bulbs from The Retrofit Source Inc

List of bulbs available through Lightwerkz. Most are rebranded, but do come with a very good warranty.
HID Projector Headlight Retrofit for Subaru, Honda, BMW, Scion and More | LightWerkz.net
1

RiceandPho: Not going to include it in the above sticky only b/c this information MAY change over time. Again, I don't want to sound as though I'm promoting one product over another. But you are right about certain brands being better than others. If you have links, please share!
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