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Old 10-30-2003, 09:19 AM #1
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Disc Brakes...different types

Hey all,

I just want to discuss the different types of disc brakes. This is more of a quick summary...it is not a technical disection.

Basics:

Disc brakes = good.

Vented disc brakes = better because better cooling/less fading without decreasing stopping distance.

Cross-drilled vented disc brakes = great for cooling (less fade), but cross drilling can lead to increase brake pad wear, cracking of the disc itself (strength compromise), and less brake pad to disc friction (because of the holes). So, cross-drilling alone may INCREASE braking distance and decrease durability on both disc & pad.

SLOTTED vented disc = best compromise between plain disc and cross-drilling. Since it is slotted, rather than having holes, then strength is still good. Brake pad wear will be increased but not as bad as cross-drilling. Stopping distance will be just as good (or almost) as plain vented disc. But, cooling will be better than plain disc.

Basically, if you were just driving your 4runner on the street, then vented disc brakes are all you need.

The ONLY time you would need slotted disc brakes or cross-drilling is if you do track racing where repeated stops need a lot of cooling of the discs.

However, many people also upgrade their discs just for looks.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-05-2003, 04:09 PM #2
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I love my slotted rotors. I am hard on brakes and they have yet to let me down. One thing about them is that you have to convert to carbon metallic brake pads which are harder and you also get this grinding feel with the brakes, but its not bad. Another downfall to slotted rotors is that you can't turn them. If they get warped, they are toast and you ahve to buy new ones. Another up side to the slots is that they are an easy way to test the thickness of the disk. Once the slots are gone, its time for new pads!
A thing about cross-drilled. There are two types of cross drilled. There are the real kind and the fake kind. The fake kind are regular disks that have holes drilled into them. I would not recomend these at all, they are the ones that are giving cross drilled rotors a bad name. I don't think they make any real cross drilled rotors for the 4Runner unless you get a full on big brake kit. Thats when you get into the real cross drilled rotors. These rotors are formed with the holes in them and are significantly stronger than the other. Your brakes are one of the most important systems on your rig, it was the first mod I did. Imho, you can't have too much brake power.

just my .02
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Old 11-05-2003, 08:49 PM #3
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Turboale,

How's the noise level on those carbon brake pads?? I have heard that they make quite a screeching noise.
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Old 11-12-2003, 06:54 PM #4
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Well, thats a funny thing. They squeeeel right now, but they seem to have moods. Some times they will be really bad, and others dead quiet. I think its sand/dirt getting on the pads from 4x4ing. :dunno: Since I don't have any skid plates in right now, I should behave enough to clean them out and I'll let you know if they get better.
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Old 11-17-2003, 04:41 PM #5
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This information is from Luke at Tire Rack. I got this off of altimas.net (where I normally reside).

Slotted or drilled ????
slotted rotors maintain approx. 96% of the friction surface
drilled rotors maintain approx. 85-93% of the friction surface
drilled and slotted only maintain 80-91% of the friction surface

For many years most racing rotors were drilled. There were two reasons - the holes gave the "fireband" boundary layer of gasses and particulate matter someplace to go and the edges of the holes gave the pad a better "bite".

Unfortunately the drilled holes also reduced the thermal capacity of the discs and served as very effective "stress raisers" significantly decreasing disc life. Improvements in friction materials have pretty much made the drilled rotor a thing of the past in racing. Most racing rotors currently feature a series of tangential slots or channels that serve the same purpose without the attendant disadvantages.

the process of drilling rotors and slotting rotors was done for 1 reason and 1 reason only it is to disipate the gases that build up between the pad and the rotor which occurs under extreme heat ( when braking very aggressively like on a road course) and it has absolutely nothing to do with heat disipation. the only way to transfer more heat away is by using a larger heat sink which means use of a larger rotor whether in diameter or thickness. Since the caliper will only allow for a certain rotor thickness that solution is not very applicable because, if you are changing tha caliper opening width you might as well get a larger rotor diameter at that time

1) The brakes don't stop the vehicle - the tires do. The brakes slow the rotation of the wheels and tires. This means that braking distance measured on a single stop from a highway legal speed or higher is almost totally dependent upon the stopping ability of the tires in use - which, in the case of aftermarket advertising, may or may not be the ones originally fitted to the car by the OE manufacturer.

2) The brakes function by converting the kinetic energy of the car into thermal energy during deceleration - producing heat, lots of heat - which must then be transferred into the surroundings and into the air stream.

The amount of heat produced in context with a brake system needs to be considered with reference to time meaning rate of work done or power. Looking at only one side of a front brake assembly, the rate of work done by stopping a 3500-pound car traveling at 100 Mph in eight seconds is 30,600 calories/sec or 437,100 BTU/hr or is equivalent to 128 kW or 172 Hp. The disc dissipates approximately 80% of this energy. The ratio of heat transfer among the three mechanisms is dependent on the operating temperature of the system. The primary difference being the increasing contribution of radiation as the temperature of the disc rises. The contribution of the conductive mechanism is also dependent on the mass of the disc and the attachment designs, with disc used for racecars being typically lower in mass and fixed by mechanism that are restrictive to conduction. At 1000oF the ratios on a racing 2-piece annular disc design are 10% conductive, 45% convective, 45% radiation. Similarly on a high performance street one-piece design, the ratios are 25% conductive, 25% convective, 50% radiation.

3) Repeated hard stops require both effective heat transfer and adequate thermal storage capacity within the disc. The more disc surface area per unit mass and the greater and more efficient the mass flow of air over and through the disc, the faster the heat will be dissipated and the more efficient the entire system will be. At the same time, the brake discs must have enough thermal storage capacity to prevent distortion and/or cracking from thermal stress until the heat can be dissipated. This is not particularly important in a single stop but it is crucial in the case of repeated stops from high speed - whether racing, touring or towing.

4) Control and balance are at least as important as ultimate stopping power. The objective of the braking system is to utilize the tractive capacity of all of the tires to the maximum practical extent without locking a tire. In order to achieve this, the braking force between the front and rear tires must be nearly optimally proportioned even with ABS equipped vehicles. At the same time, the required pedal pressure, pedal travel and pedal firmness must allow efficient modulation by the driver.

5) Braking performance is about more than just brakes. In order for even the best braking systems to function effectively, tires, suspension and driving techniques must be optimized.
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Old 11-17-2003, 06:42 PM #6
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haha,
I like the
"brakes don't stop cars, tires do" the little, sales pitch thrown in with some good information. Not saying its not true, tires are something I'll never slouch on and why i'm not running MTs right now... but thats besides the point.

but to sum that all up heat = the devil, the bigger the better, slotted is the way to go unless your going to spend $$$
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Old 03-08-2020, 04:32 AM #7
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Any updates on best disc brakes? What are you guys using for 1) great braking power and 2) reliability/endurance? I live in Colorado, and travel to the mountains often. I want to have maximum brake authority, and I need them to last. What have you guys found to be great solutions? I have Akebono "Ultra premium ceramic brake pads" ready to install with new discs.
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:42 AM #8
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Was there ever an answer to this...I'm in need of replacing my OEM setup at just over 80k miles...it's been lifted, armored, tires, Et al since 22k miles...the brakes are just starting to feeling spongy. Any best suggestions?!

-Ryan
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Old 10-16-2021, 08:08 AM #9
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I've EBS slotted and dimpled front rotors and even with generic CarQuest brake pads these are far superior to OEM setup.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:22 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSTR4 View Post
Was there ever an answer to this...I'm in need of replacing my OEM setup at just over 80k miles...it's been lifted, armored, tires, Et al since 22k miles...the brakes are just starting to feeling spongy. Any best suggestions?!

-Ryan
I'm weighing an upgrade to the Powerbrake Stage 1. The rig has gotten heavy and these can do the job. They are a beautiful work of art, which helps the sale. Earlier comments regarding the wheels doing the actual stopping are relevant - I could have the most effective brakes anywhere, but if the tires don't provide the traction I'll just have the ABS cycling during a hard stop.
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