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Old 07-16-2013, 11:05 PM #1
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Trying to make sense of T4R OBD/CAN PID codes

4th gen and beyond trucks have a wealth of CAN data at your fingertips. There are many tools available to access the data. I have been messing around with OBD PIDs for a few years now yet still get overwhelmed with the amount of forum posts and rumors on the internets. Here is my attempt at consolidating the info that is useful to me. YMMV, hope it helps someone!

On Board Diagnostics
I'll narrow this discussion to the 4Runner/Toyota. OBD is a way to allow regulatory entities, service technicians, DIYers to examine the health of your vehicle to determine if it is working properly and not generating worse than normal emissions. Fortunately, this standardization allows us to communicate with pretty much any car now sold in the US regardless of make or model. There is a standard set of codes used yet not all vehicles respond to all codes. There is also a means of allowing vehicle/manufacturer specific codes. But before we get into that, let's review the basics.

Controller Area Network
CAN (Controller Area Network) is an automotive bus connecting various electronic control modules on your vehicle. CAN frames are like packets of information that can tell who it is from, where it is going, what it wants, and what it offers. On 4th gen and beyond, OBD commands are sent across the CAN bus using frames. I'm not sure what capabilities exist for 3rd gen but OBD-II is supposed to be supported on all US vehicles since 1996 I think. Not sure if Toyota implemented OBD-II using the CAN bus though. For more info, check out: CAN bus - Wikipedia

CAN frames look like this:


It is likely that whatever transceiver you are using to speak CAN will take care of the overhead stuff like start bits, check sums, etc. So for what we want to do with OBD PIDs, we'll just look at the parts of the CAN frame that contain the payload.

Here is a good background of the standard set of codes, what they are, and how they are sent/received on the CAN bus. OBD-II PIDs - Wikipedia

Sending OBD over CAN frames
For the standard set of codes, it is pretty easy to query the data under command mode 01. The ECU will respond if it has the data you are seeking for a particular PID. For example, if I want to ask for the coolant temperature, I would look on the standard PID chart and submit command mode 01h + PID code 05h. (h means the number is in hexadecimal notation)

Before you send and receive a code, however, you have to know what address to send it to and what address to listen for a response. For pretty much all things I've done with my cars, I transmit on 7DF and receive on 7E8. This 3 character hex number translates to the 11 bit CAN ID header, by the way. There are other control modules with different addresses (7E0 is also used) but that is for another time.

Example 1 Coolant
So sending a CAN frame to query the coolant temp looks like this:
7DF 01 05
A response will look like this:
7E8 41 05 64
The first byte is the address you listened to for the response (7E8)
The next byte contains the command code (01h) + 40h = 41h and the PID (05). Note that the response will always add 40h to the command code.
The rest of the bytes are the payload of the frame (the data, the good stuff). In this case, 64 (hex) converts to 100 decimal and the formula for this PID is A-40 with units of degrees Celcius. A is simply saying the first data byte. In our example, there is only one data byte.

Example 2 RPM
If we wanted to query the Engine RPM:
7DF 01 0C
7E8 41 0C XX YY
where XX is the "A" byte and YY is the "B" byte and the formula is:
((A*256)+B)/4 with units of rpm.

In case it isn't clear, formulas and units for command code 01 PIDs are found in the chart on wikipedia.

Example 3 Transmission Temps
Now for the bonus round!
If you want to query the automatic transmission temperatures for a 2005 to 2009, you have to use a Toyota proprietary command code and PID and happen to know the formula. The good news is that this specific PID/forumula combo is available. However, there are very few custom Toyota PIDs and formulas available to the public without paying huge bucks and signing non-disclosure agreements.

Back to the ATF example. Let's query with:
7DF 21 D9
7E8 61 D9 00 00 00 00 62 20 61 80

Dissecting this looks like:
(7DF) transmit ID (21) Toyota custom command mode (D9) ATF Temp PID code
(7E8) listen ID (61) 21h+40h (D9) ATP Temp PID (00) A byte (00) B byte (00) C byte (00) D byte (62) E byte (20) F byte (61) G byte (80) H byte
And the formula is:
Trans Pan Temp (deg F)= ((((E*256)+F)*(7/100)-400)/10)
Torque Conv Outlet Temp (deg F) = ((((G*256)+H)*(7/100)-400)/10)

The response of the first and third example look like:


How to access your data
Now that I'm done with the 3 point sermon, I'll start talking about application.

There are many different products on the market that will communicate with the CAN bus through the OBD port underneath the steering wheel just above the parking brake. The most common on this forum it seems are:

Torque- an Android app that allows you to view the data on your smart phone or tablet when paired with a bluetooth transceiver.

The Taco forum has some good stuff on getting Torque up and running.
Basically, you are inputting the same transmit/listen ID, command code, PID, and applying the forumulas. This is by far the least expensive option if you already have an Android device. There are also other versions available for Android and iPhone.

ScanGauge- a wired display box that enables OBD functionality paired with a trip computer.

The programming of Scangauge is a bit more complicated but you get a handy display box to mount above your mirror or wherever. Also, the Scangauge site lists the relevant known custom codes here. To convert between Scangauge and Torque/Regular PID, use this writeup.

I personally use other hardware and software because I happen to work for a company that makes it and sells it to pretty much all of the big auto makers. I have spare parts lying around from old test units and access to the software for free but most DIYers probably won't be able to afford actually paying for our stuff. I wish I had access to the proprietary SEED keys to unlock the controllers (mess with timing, unlock doors, etc) but alas I will have to settle for OBD commands for now. Here is an example of some custom gauges I made for my Corvette Z06:


And then adding GPS and 3 axis accelerometer to the mix:


And finally, I would like to compile a list of custom codes that work with our 4Runners. Post or PM me if you have another code and formula and I'll add it here.

2005 to 2009 Transmission (A750E/F) Temperatures
Command Code: 21
PID: D9
Formula: Trans Pan Temp (deg F)= ((((E*256)+F)*(7/100)-400)/10)
Torque Conv Outlet Temp (deg F) = ((((G*256)+H)*(7/100)-400)/10)

2010 to + Transmission Temperatures
Command Code: 21
PID: 82
Formula: Trans Pan Temp (deg F)= ((((A*256)+B)*(7/100)-400)/10)
Torque Conv Outlet Temp (deg F) = ((((C*256)+D)*(7/100)-400)/10)
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:14 AM #2
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This is good info, so I'm going to sticky this thread.
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:06 AM #3
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I'd like to see the formula for Engine Oil Temperature... if it is possible to be monitored.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:38 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearN8 View Post
I'd like to see the formula for Engine Oil Temperature... if it is possible to be monitored.
I've seen rumors on the internets but I haven't tried it:
OBD Header: 7E0
Command Code: 21
PID: 01
Formula: AC-40 (units of °C)
Output Response range: -40 to 215
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:10 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd4ni View Post
I've seen rumors on the internets but I haven't tried it:
OBD Header: 7E0
Command Code: 21
PID: 01
Formula: AC-40 (units of °C)
Output Response range: -40 to 215
I'm gonna have to try this... thanks.
does it work for you in the Torque app?
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:06 PM #6
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For anyone interested, you can do something similiar with the iPhone and Engine Link app. Engine Link doesn't look as sexy, or have all the bells and whistles that Torque Pro has, but it does allow for adding custom PIDs.

How To: Monitor Trans Fluid Temp (and other things) On Your iPhone

I wish Toyota PIDs weren't such a heavily guarded secret. I'm sure there's probably lots of cool information we could view, if only we knew how to access it.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:48 PM #7
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@enginerd4ni , one thing I would really like to be able to do is monitor AFRs. 3rd gens that have California emissions have wideband O2 sensors (called "air fuel ratio sensors" by Toyota). Mine has California emissions, and wideband O2 sensors, so in some way, the ECU is seeing what the exact AFR is.

@BigFishAllDay apparently can monitor his AFRs per the post below in another thread here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFishAllDay View Post
The one I'm using, and I know it's the right one because it mimics exactly what my wideband is doing.

TXD: 686AF10124
RXF: 04410524
RXD: 2808
MTH: 05B900800000
NAME: A/F
Notes: Ratio
So when I converted it to something that Torque or Engine Link can use, I come up with this:

ECU address or Header: 0
ModeandPID: 0124
Formula: A*(1465/80)
Min Value: Not sure what to put here? Perhaps 10?
Max Value: Not sure what to put here either... 20?
Description: AFR
Unit: Ratio

The above doesn't seem to work for me. I do not see my air fuel ratio reported.

However, I can still monitor my air fuel ratio in a round about sort of way. What I can do is monitor the voltage that my upstream O2 sensor (afr sensor) is reporting. Using the chart below, I can translate what my AFR is. My reported O2 voltage usually stays around 0.65 to 0.665, which according to the chart, is hovering around 14.7:1. When I hammer it and go WOT, I'll see reported voltage dip down to 0.40 or so, which is off the chart rich.

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Old 03-25-2014, 06:51 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb235 View Post
@enginerd4ni , one thing I would really like to be able to do is monitor AFRs. 3rd gens that have California emissions have wideband O2 sensors (called "air fuel ratio sensors" by Toyota). Mine has California emissions, and wideband O2 sensors, so in some way, the ECU is seeing what the exact AFR is.
@Robb235 , I wish I had more time to help research this but it looks like you are on the right track. Sounds like you truly have a wideband O2 (as opposed to the much more common narrowband) if you are in fact getting 3.3V output from the sensor circuit. I'm not sure where you got the conversion table but it seems to make sense that you are getting ~.66V for stoich. To be honest, I haven't used T's "air fuel ratio sensors" and am unfamiliar with their calibration and signal specifications. On my 2001 Rotrex'd Spyder, I replaced the OEM narrowband with an Innovate LC-1 WB setup that uses the Bosch sensor (gold standard for tuners). I monitored both the analog and digital outputs while tuning. Of course, in my forced induction situation, wideband was a requirement to avoid popping the engine.

In your situation, there may be some funky things going on that may limit the usefulness of the data. I may be completely wrong here, but perhaps your data swings could be a function of slow ECU to OBD response conversion or just a byproduct of open loop map under high load/demand.

At any rate, it seems like the trick for you is to figure out the MATH, or in other words, the formula for converting the output of the PID to something useful. You could try the MATH for lambda as well and then scale it to the percentage of stoich.

So again, apologizing for not really helping you that much, I remember seeing a lot more discussion about PIDs and Torque on the taco forums than on t4r so searching there may be fruitful.

Let me know how it goes!
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:38 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enginerd4ni View Post
@Robb235 , I wish I had more time to help research this but it looks like you are on the right track. Sounds like you truly have a wideband O2 (as opposed to the much more common narrowband) if you are in fact getting 3.3V output from the sensor circuit. I'm not sure where you got the conversion table but it seems to make sense that you are getting ~.66V for stoich. To be honest, I haven't used T's "air fuel ratio sensors" and am unfamiliar with their calibration and signal specifications. On my 2001 Rotrex'd Spyder, I replaced the OEM narrowband with an Innovate LC-1 WB setup that uses the Bosch sensor (gold standard for tuners). I monitored both the analog and digital outputs while tuning. Of course, in my forced induction situation, wideband was a requirement to avoid popping the engine.

In your situation, there may be some funky things going on that may limit the usefulness of the data. I may be completely wrong here, but perhaps your data swings could be a function of slow ECU to OBD response conversion or just a byproduct of open loop map under high load/demand.

At any rate, it seems like the trick for you is to figure out the MATH, or in other words, the formula for converting the output of the PID to something useful. You could try the MATH for lambda as well and then scale it to the percentage of stoich.

So again, apologizing for not really helping you that much, I remember seeing a lot more discussion about PIDs and Torque on the taco forums than on t4r so searching there may be fruitful.

Let me know how it goes!
@enginerd4ni , thanks for the response.

Just a little background on the wideband vs. narrow band on 3rd gens...
All '98 and prior 4Runners came with narrowband sensors
1999-2000 4Runners - Federal emission spec 4Runners stayed with all narrow band sensors. California emission spec 4Runners use a wideband (called "air fuel ratio sensors" by Toyota) in the pre-cat sensor. Post-cat sensor is narrow band (I think).
2001-2002 4Runners - All 4Runners have the wideband sensor up front (same as '99-2000 Cali spec).

My '99 is Cali spec emission, so I have the widerange sensor up front. I'm not sure if 4th and 5th gens use narrowband or wideband sensors to monitor AFRs.

As far as using some kind of formula to convert my O2 voltage PID to actual AFR... I've thought about that. The problem is, when you plot the points on a graph (I did it in Excel), it's not a linear line. It looks like this:



By the way, I found both of these graphs from this article about wide range O2 senors here.

I could possibly use some basic algebra and slope intercept to come up with a formula that's close, but the problem is, the further away I got from stoich (14.7:1), the less accurate my formula would be. Does that make sense?

What I find strange is that @BigFishAllDay seems to have an actual PID where his ECU returns the interpretted AFR. It seems for me, that same PID is not active, for whatever reason.
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:08 AM #10
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Thank you for the info
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:01 PM #11
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What about oil pressure? Do 2011s monitor this? Can’t imagine why they don’t...
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