Why are you not impress with GY? What exactly you find wrong with it? It comes from a big company. It has strong sidewall, second only to BFG AT KO. Its tread is fairly aggressive (for a highway-ish tire). It does not affect fuel economy much (unlike Conti's). And from the other threads, it is very much proven on-road AND off-road by off-road reviewers.

I like Michelin because it is more street friendly and also because it is proven and from a big company. And again, like above, it does pretty well off-road. But i probably go to GY only because they look better (more aggressive) and possibly stronger sidewall....but damn, the Michelin sidewall is not that shabby!

Stone retention? That's with every tire not called mud-terrains! I had nasty stone retention with BFG KO too...and by nasty because they retained some big ass stones! I felt bad all the drivers going behind my G-wagen!

As for Falkens, i just don't have the trust that you have in them. Maybe it is not, but i see them as 2nd tier player. And your own experience confirms that its sidewall may not be the strongest. Or just look at Discount Tire website...your AT tires are rated 2nd tier ("Better", not "Best").

What's the deal with you pushing Falkens so much?? Do you sell them?

Yeah, your video is probably about as rough as i will ever take my GX. My days of rock crawling and tougher terrain are over.

LOL! Maybe I should!

What I like in the Falkens you can probably also get from the new tires from General and Goodyear (they have two new designs).

That's very good street manners+ great offroad traction in dirt and in rock + sizable shoulder protectors to partly compensate for the inherently weaker sidewall construction of P-metric tires. It is the shoulder protector that limits the number of interesting to me P metric tires greatly.

DT ratings are puzzling. They rate the Goodyear Ultraterrain (B traction rating) best but the Wildpeaks (A traction rating) better. And so on and so forth.

Sumitomo is a big tire maker. I think #4 or 5. They are bigger than Toyo/Nitto and Cooper combined.

I understand the Defender temptation though. It may indeed be best for your use. And it is a Michelin. I am not sure there is another tire brand I would consider inherently more reputable than Falken/Toyo/Nitto/Kumho. But Michelin, ok, for street tires.

I was curious about the Kevlar one when you brought it up but did not find much on the internet to collaborate the enthusiasm of the article you linked.

GY Ultra-terrain is Discount Tire exclusive. It does not have Kevlar. I do not think that it is a "new" design.

GY AT Adventure with Kevlar has A traction rating BTW. And it is in "BEST" category.

You did not find much to collaborate? Dude, there are MULTIPLE reviews from internet blogs to tire experts to hardcore off-roaders backing up Goodyear Adventure prowess. There is even a puncture test done on the GY! But wait, you trust TireRack's CONSUMER surveys instead! BTW, TireRack site themselves like the GY tires too..."While we didn't get a chance to truly challenge the off-road capabilities of the Kevlar-reinforced treads or Durawall Technology sidewall rubber, past experience confirms both contribute to the tire's toughness and strength."

Btw, further debate of GY should be done in that thread. I don’t want to hijack this thread.

If you spend more time on pavement and aren't going to access remote areas, I wouldn't put anything else on a nice, plush, luxurious GX than the defenders.

Quiet, long service life, and tread that doesn't disappear when low on tread.
Unbeatable and painless treadlife warranty too.

yeah i know i know i know!! Damn Michelin and their conservative designs!

You pay what you get Defenders can run boy. I liked them on when I was stock.

Yeah, i am pretty sure (90%) that i will get Defenders once my stock tires wear out (Bridgestone Dueler HT). It is proven tough (apparently enough to air down), lighter weight than GY (by 2-3 lbs per tire), has lower rolling resistance than GY, long treadwear, and it’s a Michelin.

Again, you should be fine with the Defenders. But modern design AT tires do not really sacrifice road performance, at least nothing that a BoF vehicle will feel. The GX is a lot better than the TRD 4Runner on road, but you won't be cornering as in an Audi or a Subaru anyway.

So all the tires mentioned above will do. If you want a tire specifically designed to do well in rain, consider the Continental Terrain Contact AT. They also track extremely well on dirt. But they are not as strong as the Wildpeak; there is no way I take a Conti AT where I take the Wildpeaks. They lack any real shoulder protectors and they also lack any biting edges for the loose stuff.

That aside, you are missing a couple points:

First, in general, brand name for tires is just that, a brand name. Here is a 65-page AAA tire study telling you that much:

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/f...udy-Report.pdf

I will agree about Michelin vs a minor/new/unproved brand. But to say that Goodyear or BFG is somehow better than Toyo, Nitto, or Falken is just brand obsession. These are actual brands, not some unproven startups.

Second, Sumitomo, in particular, is the world's 5th largest tiremaker. It is not a marginal, small, or second-class company. Wildpeak AT3W and MT are the tires offered on the new Jeep Gladiator Rubicon trim. If that's not a good enough endorsement from the industry itself, I don't know what is. Sure, the Wildpeaks are made in Thailand.

Third, the tires you have in mind DO NOT have kevlar in the sidewalls. The P-metric version has some kevlar in the tread and the LT version has more. You need to go to MT-R to get Kevlar in the sidewalls. The GY MT-R is actually the tire I wanted when I was looking for a trail rig before deciding to buy a new 4Runner instead. You keep citing those reviews you found, but you can bet they are about the LT versions. If you want to talk LT tires that's different. I have been talking P metric in this thread. And for that, I am a better resource that what you have linked, lol.

At the end, any of the tires mentioned in this thread will do the job for you. Maybe just get those Defenders and call it a day. I go through tires in 2 years or less so for me getting it perfectly right the first time around is not as big of a deal as if I were wearing a set over 5-6 years.

Man, you really like your Wildpeak!

Yes, mild AT tires are getting more well-rounded. But according to one member on ClubLexus, Wildpeaks noise levels are indeed significant at highway speeds: Falken Wilkpeak AT3w on stock wheels - Page 2 - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

Continental AT is a great tire for sure. But i do worry about rolling resistance, which may affect fuel economy in my thirsty V8 GX. The same worry for the Goodyear AT Kevlar too.

TireRack also does comparisons of tires and there are indeed differences b/w the brands. If everything is same, then why are we having this discussion b/w WildPeaks and Conti's and Michelin, etc..

But getting back to your argument.......it is NOT me that is brand bias. Take a look at how Discount Tire classify your tire vs. Goodyear or Conti. Your tire is 2nd tier in THEIR eyes.

For me, i spend money on what i think is quality based on past experiences and how they are classified. Please note.....i am NOT a newbie to cars, off-roading, or tires.

Well, Bridgestone Dueler HT is offered on my (relatively) expensive Lexus GX......does that mean that it must be a luxurious as hell good tire?

Goodyear AT Kevlar is offered as standard equipment tires on Tacomas, including TRG PRO. Does that naturally mean that they are big ballers?

It is hard to say that these OEMs get these tires because they are good for the customer or they are good for OEM's pocket books? Maybe a little of both? Who knows?!

Goodyear AT Kevlar has Kevlar in the tread, not sidewall. YET, in one of the biggest review of off-roading tires, Goodyear AT Kevlar has a nearly as strong sidewall as BFG KO2......and as you said, without help from Kevlar. And that Durawall technology is the same whether you have LT or P-metric GY AT Kevlar. But feel free to puncture test your tires against GY or Michelin...and report back.

Although i appreciate your enthusiasm, but your condescending tone is getting old dude. Yeah, you are a great resource....

And no dude, i did not miss any points. But thanks anyways.

Yeah, that's the gist of my point.

Haha, yeah, I will like them until I burst a sidewall in a really bad spot. Then I won't. That's the issue with civilized tires: they can prove themselves, but never enough because one scary event, such as a sidewall burst on a tight, steep shelf road, would be enough to ruin the experience of thousands of uneventful off-pavement miles. Such is the predicament of looking for an all-purpose tire.

I don't remember any mpg hit from the Conti AT though by that point I was 5 years removed from pure street tires.

As for certain tires being used as stock tires, I think that what it means is, yes, partly that a deal was cut that worked for both parties, but I also think it guarantees a minimum level of street performance.

It could be that said Adventure tire is perfect for you. Maybe ask DT if they have a trial period? Some tires do. Maybe they can work out a deal with you so that you could return them if you try them and don't like them.

Good luck either way.

But your Wildpeak sidewall did pop according to you....

As I said, I was aired down against my own advice. I was not crawling either. So I take that to be my error until it happens at proper for P metric psi and crawling speed.

We have driven 11 desert trails in the same area since without issues, at 33 psi.

In addition, it was annoying, but it was not dangerous. I did have to drive another 10 yards on the wheel to get to a flatter spot and we did block the trail while replacing the tire as the next wider spot was too far but it was not a dangerous situation. Just annoying.

Good review: Michelin Defender LTX M/S Tire Review >> AutoGuide.com News

I've been running the LTX's on my '03 V8 LTD for a couple of years now, very happy, all on road. What psi do all you users run yours at? I'm at 37psi.

Thanks!