Is there a reason no one seems to run these. I need new tires, got 2 nonerepairable flats in my p rated Toyo At2. The firestone come in a c load 275 that only weighs 47lbs. They don’t look as aggressive on the side wall as others. Am I missing something else.

The trick is that different makers approach their tires differently.

Toyo AT II varies by load. So P metric gets you basically street sidewalls, LT gets you shoulder protectors, E-load gets you an extra sidewall ply (I think) and much better sidewall protectors.

BFG KO2 gives you the same protectors from C to E but adds a third sidewall ply on D and E rated tires.

Falken Wildpeak AT3W uses the same protectors from P to E and also the same sidewall ply idea (2 plies made so as to mimic 4, do not ask me how).

Therefore, going P to C does not necessarily mean getting a stronger tire. Some tire makers are adamant that C gives nothing over P in terms of offroad strength when the same tire is considered. I talked to Falken recently and forgot which other one earlier (Nitto?).

Maybe you need tires with more robust shoulder protectors like P265 70 17 Wildpeak AT3W (31.7) or the C-load Nitto Ridge Grapplers in 265 70 17 (31.9). The Firestone is only 32.2 in 275 70 17.

I have used my Wildpeaks extensively in S. Utah, C. AZ, and Montana with only one flat, repairable, and no sidewall issues at all. I also like the Ridge Grapplers a lot but they are a lot more expensive.

I had Toyo Open Country ATII on a Subaru and they were great on dirt but that's about it for the P-metric version. Unfortunately, they are one of those who make a lot of changes to the same design when moving from P to E.

EDIT: as for your question, I have seen the Destination AT2 rated both first and last, I forgot which place where. One was Consumer Reports, the other was Tire Rack (consumer based). This was a couple years ago.

Very useful info! thank you for this

I guess that explains the added weight of the Falken and ridge grappler. I guess I should look at different p load 265s. I would just buy the ko2 if there wasn’t so many wet traction issue reviews. Thank you for the useful information.

What about the revo 3 from bridgestone. It is E but still basically the same weight as the stock tire. I know I hit multiple curbs when I had them on Ram with no sidewall damage. There is one member here that runs them pics. They look nice.

I’ve very happy with the Eibach. It sets just tall enough over stock to look good (I didn’t want to need UCAs and I didn’t want it to be tall enough to temp me to get 285s), body roll and nose dive is reduced. It’s not near as stiff as the bilsteins I have on my Silverado. I originally wanted the 6112 but they were on back order. I did use the factory front springs (I wanted the dobinsons 296 but they only came in teal). My off-roading is more wet fields and dirt access roads so I haven’t really tried their limits. The rear spring is really nice, doesn’t beat you to death but doesn’t sag anymore when I put the bike rack and gear in it.


As for the Revo 3, I looked at the p rated and thought they’d be no better than the toyo. I’m hesitant to get an E. I had a set on my 3rd gen and was really harsh.

I put 275/70/17 Firestone Destination ATs on our 4Runner after having E Rated KO2s on for a few thousand miles. Firestones drive about like the stock tire where as the KO2s drove horrible (Wouldn't balance out). This is our primary family vehicle so ride quality is important. I have KO2s on my fzj80 and they're great. The Firestones don't look as aggressive as KO2s, but I actually think the 275/70/17 Destination looks great on a stock height or slightly lifted 4Runner.

Our previous Jeep Cherokee Trail Hawk came with Firestone at2. No complaints. Owned the car one year before Lemon Law'd. Tires had zero complaint.

Which one is the better tire will depend on use and climate. I know what I want for myself but that's not necessarily best for everyone.

The Firestone AT2 in LT-C 275 70 17 is 32.2. 47lb
Destination AT Tire | All-Terrain Handling

The Nitto Ridge Grappler in LT-C 265 70 17 is 31.9". 55lb
Ridge Grappler Light Truck Tire | Nitto Tire

For my needs in the Southwest, I would definitely choose the Ridge Grappler, but the SW is nothing like NC.

As for the KO2 in 275, actually the Wildpeaks in 265 have a tad wider actual tread at 9" vs a little bit under 9" on the KO2s (when I put the 265 Wildpeak next to the 265 stock tire, I was amazed). The KO2 also run a bit small in terms of diameter.

I spent a lot of time researching tires, and the most common things between everything I read were that Michelin was great and Firestone was garbage. I read literally hundreds of differences of opinions, but those two things were relatively consistent. I had enough random people with zero connection to each other tell me Firestone was garbage that I will avoid them forever.

Ok, but generalizations like "great" and "garbage" are not terribly useful.

Since Michelin has no proper AT, it is a little hard to even add them to the conversation. The one they do have is too mild and known to clog far too easily with gravel, just like a street tire would.

It is not by chance that the KO2, the Wildpeak, and the Ridge Grapplers generate so many responses. They are among the latest designs, they all do the job very well, though each has a strength of its own, and they all get pretty good actual track record per the Discount Tire corporate guy I talk to on another forum. I know he answers questions and PMs on many forums, so maybe even on this one.

The P-metric and LT-C versions of the other tires just don't seem to be quite as good offroad or have other issues. The latest Geolander GO15 still gets some criticism for cornering on pavement, which was awful in the ATS while the latest Pirelli Scorpion and the Continental AT are not even marketed for more than dirt roads.

Speaking of which, the OP may want to consider the Continental Terrain Contact AT. They are not the softest AT for ride quality, but they track extremely well on dirt, do great in rain, and generally have the road behavior of a street tire. I would not trust them in the desert though.

Every discount tire I call is pushing the KO2. My local tire guy says for looks he would do the KO2. For ride quality he recommended the new cooper at3 but I think they run small. Also said if I could find a set of 18” wheels I liked that the true 32” tire choices were greater. It seems that the tires I like the most looks wise are all E. I’m just trying to find a good compromise of looks and durability. Right now I’m leaning towards the KO2 in a 265 C. Waiting on them to have a rebate.

I've run several sets of C rated Destination ATs on Tacos and 4Rs. Great tires. Smooth, quiet, balance easy, decent on all the off road and dirt road stuff I do - which has included Black Bear, the Dalton, Moab, and everything in between. My current set will need replaced after I get back from my second Alaska trip on them this year, and I'll get them again. They may not have a ba looking sidewall but they get the job done. Since I'm not a poseur, I don't give a shit.

I had 235/70r16 Firestone Destination AT2's on my Jeep Liberty before I bought the 4Runner. They had terrible wet traction, which could have seemed worse because of the super short wheelbase of KJ jeep liberty. 2 of them had to be warrantied for the side of the tire falling apart after a few months. I won't be buying them again for the 4Runner.

But what about all the complaints with KO2 in rain on this forum? In addition, a KO2 in C only has two-ply sidewall so it won't give you any advantage over Wildpeaks or Ridge Grapplers. But maybe all three of those are too aggressive for a DD in NC.

I would take a look at the Continental Terrain Contact AT if I were in NC.


That's a useful review and a good point. I have never had a Geolander ATS puncture in S. Utah or SW CO either but they were still awful tires all around due to cornering and braking performance. Normally, Moab slickrock is very tire friendly and Ouray/Silverton are only mildly rocky. A lot of the punctures that people get seem to be due to improper PSI for the trail (often too low, sometimes too high) and a lot of tire strength debates are really about very difficult and extreme trails, for which there are better platforms than a 5th gen. Crazy pressures and driving on the sidewall are not needed on regular difficult trails, so, yes, I agree with your point.

That said, if one is paying more or less the same, one may as well try to find the very best for their needs. The lone standout in the value department is the Wildpeaks. Just make sure to buy from a reputed retailer because early production tires that were supposed to be destroyed ended up being offered by some retailers per the Falken website this time last year. There was some issue with those, I do not remember what.