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Old 09-17-2019, 01:38 PM #1
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BFG KO2 vs. Terra Grappler G2 vs. Falken Wildpeak vs. Other P-Rated AT Tires

I have been doing research on tires for a month now, and I've got about 2 weeks before I need to make a decision. I've looked at threads here, other 4Runner forums, Tacoma forums, Google, Tundra forums, Tire Rack, Discount Tire, YouTube and more. Here is where I'm at now:

The BFGoodrich KO2 is more tire than I need, and I want a tire that's softer and more compliant for day-to-day driving, and that's also not as heavy.

I love the look of the KO2 but I have to be realistic about my needs. I just got a new 2019 Limited 4X4 and don't plan to beat this one up on trail rides. Occasional service and mountain roads for fishing and hiking? Yes. But that's really it. I have the 17" Sequoia/Tundra wheels so am shopping for 265 70/R17.

I am planning on a P-Rated tire this time around since I don't need load range C or higher. This alone should make a big difference with ride quality. Several tires have come and left the list, but here is where we stand now. I included the KO2 as a comparison point since that's what I have now:




A few notes on the tires above:

Falken Wildpeak A/T3W: I'm concerned about the weight of this tire. It's a little heavier than the C-rated KO2, and I'd really like to get to something in the low 40s for MPG, acceleration and general driving "feel." The issue has been raised by @Thai about the higher Rev/Mile metric compared to the others - I emailed Falken my question last week and have not heard back. This is strange to me... the numbers don't really line up with the Rev/Mile metric. Also some complaints about balancing these tires.

Nitto Terra Grappler G2: I've seen this tire on the street a lot, I know it was puncture prone on that infamous YouTube video where someone took a P-rated tire on a rocky trail trip, and some folks have anecdotally expressed concern about the wet traction. I skimmed through all 78 reviews on Discount Tire and only 2 mention wet traction as a problem. In fact, most mention wet traction as a positive point for this tire. Also, it's comparatively light, has a 65,000 mile warranty, and I found several reviews from folks who really like them.

Michelin LTX A/T 2: When I found this tire, I was initially really excited: low weight, Michelin name, lots of positive press about it being a great hybrid between an AT tire and a highway tire. However, there are numerous reviews about the tire wearing prematurely and unevenly. Some of them mention it's an inherent problem with the tread design. For the price, I'm not confident about taking a plunge when there are so many negative reviews about wear - and a few about wet traction problems when wearing down.

Hankook Dynapro ATM AF-10: In my search, I saw several mentions of this tire and added it to my list. However, upon further research, I read a lot of reviews about poor wet traction. The most of all of the tires I researched. It's light (40lbs) and relatively inexpensive, but I'm not sure it's as smooth or sure footed as I am looking for.

Pirelli Scorpion All Terrain Plus: This is a fairly new tire but I've found nothing but positive reviews from people who have driving habits that seem to mimic mine. There are no reviews of this tire on Discount Tire, and it has a 4.5 rating on Tire Rack. Here's a Tacoma thread about the tire. I actually cannot find anything negative about this tire in any reviews, and lots of people are saying they prefer it to the KO2, plus it has a smoother ride and better traction. I'm a little on the fence about buying a tire without more reviews to read, but it's light and fairly inexpensive.

Right now, I would rank them as follows:

1) Nitto Terra Grappler G2: Low weight, overall positive reviews, price and it seems to be the most well rounded tire coming out of my research
2) Pirelli Scorpion All Terrain Plus: Universally positive reviews, though again, I'm a little uneasy about the number of reviews. Feel good about price and weight, too.
3) Michelin LTX A/T 2: This would be me taking a chance, because truly 50% of the reviews mention poor/uneven/premature wear and it's concerning.
4) Falken Wildpeak A/T3W: I'm not really digging 46.5lbs on a P-rated tire, plus i have concerns about the rev/mile metric and nobody from Falken has replied.
5) Keep my KO2s.
6) Hankook Dynapro ATM AF-10


Does anyone have insights or experiences to add to this?

Any tires I missed? The Cooper sizing/rating is hard to find in 265/70R17, except for the Discoverer AT3 4S which I had a hard time finding reviews for. The tire is a little smaller in diameter than the others, and as a result, the Revs per mile are higher at 661. Not really wanting to go lower than stock size.

Anyone want to shoot down my thinking or speak up for the Wildpeaks?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:43 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
I have been doing research on tires for a month now, and I've got about 2 weeks before I need to make a decision. I've looked at threads here, other 4Runner forums, Tacoma forums, Google, Tundra forums, Tire Rack, Discount Tire, YouTube and more. Here is where I'm at now:

The BFGoodrich KO2 is more tire than I need, and I want a tire that's softer and more compliant for day-to-day driving, and that's also not as heavy.

I love the look of the KO2 but I have to be realistic about my needs. I just got a new 2019 Limited 4X4 and don't plan to beat this one up on trail rides. Occasional service and mountain roads for fishing and hiking? Yes. But that's really it. I have the 17" Sequoia/Tundra wheels so am shopping for 265 70/R17.

I am planning on a P-Rated tire this time around since I don't need load range C or higher. This alone should make a big difference with ride quality. Several tires have come and left the list, but here is where we stand now. I included the KO2 as a comparison point since that's what I have now:




A few notes on the tires above:

Falken Wildpeak A/T3W: I'm concerned about the weight of this tire. It's a little heavier than the C-rated KO2, and I'd really like to get to something in the low 40s for MPG, acceleration and general driving "feel." The issue has been raised by @Thai about the higher Rev/Mile metric compared to the others - I emailed Falken my question last week and have not heard back. This is strange to me... the numbers don't really line up with the Rev/Mile metric. Also some complaints about balancing these tires.

Nitto Terra Grappler G2: I've seen this tire on the street a lot, I know it was puncture prone on that infamous YouTube video where someone took a P-rated tire on a rocky trail trip, and some folks have anecdotally expressed concern about the wet traction. I skimmed through all 78 reviews on Discount Tire and only 2 mention wet traction as a problem. In fact, most mention wet traction as a positive point for this tire. Also, it's comparatively light, has a 65,000 mile warranty, and I found several reviews from folks who really like them.

Michelin LTX A/T 2: When I found this tire, I was initially really excited: low weight, Michelin name, lots of positive press about it being a great hybrid between an AT tire and a highway tire. However, there are numerous reviews about the tire wearing prematurely and unevenly. Some of them mention it's an inherent problem with the tread design. For the price, I'm not confident about taking a plunge when there are so many negative reviews about wear - and a few about wet traction problems when wearing down.

Hankook Dynapro ATM AF-10: In my search, I saw several mentions of this tire and added it to my list. However, upon further research, I read a lot of reviews about poor wet traction. The most of all of the tires I researched. It's light (40lbs) and relatively inexpensive, but I'm not sure it's as smooth or sure footed as I am looking for.

Pirelli Scorpion All Terrain Plus: This is a fairly new tire but I've found nothing but positive reviews from people who have driving habits that seem to mimic mine. There are no reviews of this tire on Discount Tire, and it has a 4.5 rating on Tire Rack. Here's a Tacoma thread about the tire. I actually cannot find anything negative about this tire in any reviews, and lots of people are saying they prefer it to the KO2, plus it has a smoother ride and better traction. I'm a little on the fence about buying a tire without more reviews to read, but it's light and fairly inexpensive.

Right now, I would rank them as follows:

1) Nitto Terra Grappler G2: Low weight, overall positive reviews, price and it seems to be the most well rounded tire coming out of my research
2) Pirelli Scorpion All Terrain Plus: Universally positive reviews, though again, I'm a little uneasy about the number of reviews. Feel good about price and weight, too.
3) Michelin LTX A/T 2: This would be me taking a chance, because truly 50% of the reviews mention poor/uneven/premature wear and it's concerning.
4) Falken Wildpeak A/T3W: I'm not really digging 46.5lbs on a P-rated tire, plus i have concerns about the rev/mile metric and nobody from Falken has replied.
5) Keep my KO2s.
6) Hankook Dynapro ATM AF-10


Does anyone have insights or experiences to add to this?

Any tires I missed? The Cooper sizing/rating is hard to find in 265/70R17, except for the Discoverer AT3 4S which I had a hard time finding reviews for.

Anyone want to shoot down my thinking or speak up for the Wildpeaks?

Thanks in advance.
How about Goodyear AT Adventure with Kevlar?

I would not get Michelin AT because it is an old design with old materials...the Defender is PROBABLY a tougher tire than it.

Falken...great value...but you get what you pay for...cheap steel plies, heavy, and runs small.

BFG KO2...great tire, but heavy...but tough as nails. Won't age gracefully from what i hear.

If i were to get Hankook, then get AT-2 not ATM.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:47 PM #3
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For me, i am back in the market for tires...BFG KO2 in stock size for GX is on infinite backorder!

I am considering Goodyear Adventure AT with Kevlar. Expensive. P-metric. But fairly tough for a P-metric with 2 ply sidewall.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:48 PM #4
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I can recommend the Cooper AT3 4s for your short list. Light, quiet, smooth, look pretty decent. They are currently on my winter wheels. I use KO2s during the summer but will be seriously considering the Coopers year round after this winter.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:12 PM #5
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Quote:
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How about Goodyear AT Adventure with Kevlar?

I would not get Michelin AT because it is an old design with old materials...the Defender is PROBABLY a tougher tire than it.

Falken...great value...but you get what you pay for...cheap steel plies, heavy, and runs small.

BFG KO2...great tire, but heavy...but tough as nails. Won't age gracefully from what i hear.

If i were to get Hankook, then get AT-2 not ATM.
Quote:
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For me, i am back in the market for tires...BFG KO2 in stock size for GX is on infinite backorder!

I am considering Goodyear Adventure AT with Kevlar. Expensive. P-metric. But fairly tough for a P-metric with 2 ply sidewall.
I looked at the Hankook AT-2 and saw some complaints about wet traction. There aren't a ton of reviews on the tire that were easy to find.

Looking at the Goodyear tire now though. Looks nice. Is Goodyear back in the game these days? Years ago their tires were trash.

Quote:
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I can recommend the Cooper AT3 4s for your short list. Light, quiet, smooth, look pretty decent. They are currently on my winter wheels. I use KO2s during the summer but will be seriously considering the Coopers year round after this winter.
Thanks! I wish they were a little larger - the diameter is smaller, so the rev/mile is higher. How has your experience been?
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:15 PM #6
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Looking at the Goodyear tire now though. Looks nice. Is Goodyear back in the game these days? Years ago their tires were trash.
Not sure. But they are sure expensive!

Be careful reading the reviews. Goodyear AT Kevlar comes on OEM trucks, such as Tacoma TRD or something like that and a few others, like GM small trucks. These tires are LIGHTER weight than aftermarket counterparts (of same size). MY 100% theory is that the OEM Goodyears are not as tough as what you buy thru local tire store...they have different parts number too.

This is why i am looking at a non-OEM sized Goodyear Wrangler AT Kevlar.

EDIT: from the other thread:

Just to backed up what i wrote above about strength: https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...6&d=1497265431

BFG is #1...but that is a given due to it being LT and 3-ply sidewall. But surprisingly, Goodyear AT Adventure comes in 2nd and not that far behind with its DuraWall. Yokohama AT-S (old generation; new redesign is the G015 state above) comes in 3rd...behind BFG and GY but above the rest.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:20 PM #7
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I looked at the Hankook AT-2 and saw some complaints about wet traction. There aren't a ton of reviews on the tire that were easy to find.

Looking at the Goodyear tire now though. Looks nice. Is Goodyear back in the game these days? Years ago their tires were trash.



Thanks! I wish they were a little larger - the diameter is smaller, so the rev/mile is higher. How has your experience been?
I don't worry too much about 3 revs per mile (just under one half of one percent) considering the differences in starting tread depth and wear over the life of a tire. I think the KO2s look better, and I know they are tougher under some of my driving conditions, but I can't find anything to complain about the AT3 4S. The street ride is significantly better as you would expect. They are 4 lb a piece lighter, quieter and more fuel efficient. I wheeled them lightly this spring before swapping to my summer tires and they did just fine. I am going to leave them on after the coming winter and take them through an offroad season next year. If I don't experience any failures, I may just leave them on year round from then on.

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Old 09-17-2019, 04:17 PM #8
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Ok, did a good bit of research on the Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure with Kevlar:

$204/tire
42 lbs
Significant number of complaints about vibrations, difficulty balancing, and premature wear.

For the price, thinking of staying away from these.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:26 PM #9
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Ok, did a good bit of research on the Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure with Kevlar:

$204/tire
42 lbs
Significant number of complaints about vibrations, difficulty balancing, and premature wear.

For the price, thinking of staying away from these.
The other option on my list: Yokohama Geolander A/T G015
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:45 PM #10
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The other option on my list: Yokohama Geolander A/T G015
Pretty much unanimously positive reviews, it's light, has a 60k mile warranty and looks good. The only downside I can find is a few mentions of road noise. In my experience, Yokohama tires are always a little louder than some others... but it's also hard to judge someone's perception of a loud AT tire, especially if they're coming from stock.

Definitely going to consider these.
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:25 PM #11
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The further I dig in on the Geolandar A/T, the more I like it. I moved this tire up from 4th to 3rd to 2nd to 1st, and of all the reviews I read, I only saw three that mentioned noise.

Again, that's a hard thing to really nail down in my opinion. Are you coming from an all season tire? How many miles? Is air pressure right? What surfaces? What speeds?

I think I am leaning towards these Geolandars over the Terra Grappler G2s because of wet traction, but it seems like I am really splitting hairs between the two. $4/tire difference in price. .1 lb difference in weight. .1 difference in rating.

For anyone who might find it useful in the future, here is an updated chart with the things we've discussed. I separated the Top 3 from the rest of the category.

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Old 09-17-2019, 05:59 PM #12
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The further I dig in on the Geolandar A/T, the more I like it. I moved this tire up from 4th to 3rd to 2nd to 1st, and of all the reviews I read, I only saw three that mentioned noise.

Again, that's a hard thing to really nail down in my opinion. Are you coming from an all season tire? How many miles? Is air pressure right? What surfaces? What speeds?

I think I am leaning towards these Geolandars over the Terra Grappler G2s because of wet traction, but it seems like I am really splitting hairs between the two. $4/tire difference in price. .1 lb difference in weight. .1 difference in rating.

For anyone who might find it useful in the future, here is an updated chart with the things we've discussed. I separated the Top 3 from the rest of the category.

I need to get a job at Yokohama....i need some commission!
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:35 AM #13
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You guys made me write a guide about the selection process It is not about brand or tire bashing or praising:

How to choose AT tires: a guide

I also tried to explain P vs P.

For offroad use east of Denver, basically any P metric AT will do. I very much doubt that any of you fools around in OHV parks which would be the exception. And nobody should obsess with punctures. An occasional puncture is no reason to ditch one tire for another or P for LT. The only reasons to fear tire issues is when crawling through rock obstacles in narrow areas (think Colorado) or running high speed through the desert (think Arizona). Another reason is travel in very remote areas. Then again, many Australians choose to run two spares instead of stronger tires.

@Thai , I am surprised you decided not to wait. I still think that a Rotiiva AT could be the perfect tire for you. It has aramid sidewalls in addition to being probably the best in snow. I wrote them with questions about their LTC AT Plus tire but nobody has answered as of now. Another great option is the new Destination AT2 that you posted a thread about.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:55 AM #14
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You guys made me write a guide about the selection process It is not about brand or tire bashing or praising:

How to choose AT tires: a guide

I also tried to explain P vs P.

For offroad use east of Denver, basically any P metric AT will do. I very much doubt that any of you fools around in OHV parks which would be the exception. And nobody should obsess with punctures. An occasional puncture is no reason to ditch one tire for another or P for LT. The only reasons to fear tire issues is when crawling through rock obstacles in narrow areas (think Colorado) or running high speed through the desert (think Arizona). Another reason is travel in very remote areas. Then again, many Australians choose to run two spares instead of stronger tires.

@Thai , I am surprised you decided not to wait. I still think that a Rotiiva AT could be the perfect tire for you. It has aramid sidewalls in addition to being probably the best in snow. I wrote them with questions about their LTC AT Plus tire but nobody has answered as of now. Another great option is the new Destination AT2 that you posted a thread about.
There is a guy on Tacomaworld that runs Rotiiva. He blew two of them in a short time while off-roading. He likes them but two failures is two too many in short time...one failure was tread, the other in the sidewall.

For me, having a puncture is a joy kill...not just for me/family but for the whole group.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:16 AM #15
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Ok, did a good bit of research on the Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure with Kevlar:

$204/tire
42 lbs
Significant number of complaints about vibrations, difficulty balancing, and premature wear.

For the price, thinking of staying away from these.
Yes, i read those bad reviews. But those reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. You don't know the background...were they rotated truly (not just writing it), were they balanced by a Road Force machine (i can tell you from experience that most mom-n-pops tire shops do NOT have one), were they pressured up correctly to spec, etc..

Here's the thing...if they were all that, then why did Toyota, GM and Ford choose them? I understand the pre-mature wear...now that maybe true. But then again, name me one AT tire that does not suffer from this other than BFG KO2? From reading reviews of all sorts of ATs, they all suffer from this...again, you have some reviewers that are glowing for longevity, others not so much. And frankly, BFG KO2 gets horrendously loud with poor wet performance as they age......so, is keeping a loud and poor performing tire for a long time a good thing?? Many says that it gets unbearable!

I don’t buy AT and plan on keeping it for over 50k. Once they start to get loud or poor performing, then off they go.

If I want good longevity, then I would get Michelin Defenders.

But if Goodyear ATA Kevlars are hard to balance and has tons of vibrations, then i doubt those OEMs would choose because then their initial customer experience will be crap and they would spend millions in warranty costs.

And remember in those bad reviews, were they talking about Goodyear that came on their truck from factory OR were they bought?? There is a difference as I noted above. For example, in 265/70/16 (stock size for Tacoma), there are TWO types of P-metric. One made in Canada which weighs 35 lbs...the other USA made and weighs 42 lbs. 7 lbs of difference (per TireRack). On Discount Tire, it is 42 vs. 37 lbs. Either way, there is a 5-7 lbs difference...the lighter one is made for Toyota/GM/Ford. The heavier one is the one you buy aftermarket. How do you explain this much difference in weight? My guess...construction is weaker in the lighter one to preserve fuel economy for OEM applications.

This is why i separate the reviewers of Tacomas and Canyons etc. from the others.

This is why Goodyear is still high on my list. You cannot get a stronger sidewall anywhere in a P-metric. The tread is pretty good too due to Kevlar. And its weight is not bad...relatively speaking.
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