Hey all,

Apparently, odometer fraud is frequent in the US...so beware when shopping for a used car! This is just another reason why i don't buy used car unless it is the last car in the world!

Washington, D.C. - The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reports that there are more than 450,000 cases of odometer fraud per year in the United States.

"Odometer fraud puts the safety and well-being of consumers at risk because it misleads them about wear and tear on the vehicle they are buying," said U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta.

450K out of how many millions of automobiles?

Seems like a tiny fraction and I'd be curious to know the breakdown by year of those 450K.

I would tend to think that newer cars are more difficult to rollback without detection.

Can a digital odometer be roll back??

this happened to me first hand, my brother had an accord w/ indiglo gauges he put in. Well they melted to the gauge cluster, he had 170k on the car, he picked up a new gauge cluster at the junk yard and the new gauge cluster had like 40k lol.. digital mind you.

you can fIND a kit specifically designed to rollback speedos, not cHEAP, THENYOU CAN FIND A GROUP OF PEOPLE ON YAHOOGROUPSWHO DOES THAT AS THEY FULL TIME JOBS. THERE IS SOME LEGITIMATE USES OF THAT EQUIPMENT,BUT 99.9% ITS ODOMETER FRAUD.
ALMOST ALL MODERN CARS STORE THAT INFO IN THE CLUSTER, NOT ECU. THEY CONNECTTO CLUSTER ROM AND REFLASH IT.

FELONY IS DISTANT POSSIBILITY, MONETARY GAIN IS IMMEDIATE.

I only buy new carsbut not because of possible speedo fraud but becuse i onlyhave one life and i don`t want second hand anything.nothing better then new, i can`t stand deler term preowned. I hate that word. Used is used, someone else problems better stay someone else not mine.

I had a '71 corvette that I sold to a neighborhood dealer. His check bounced and when I reclaimed the car a few days later it had 40,000 less miles on it. His plan of course was to sell the car and cover his check or maybe just disappear before I came back.

Gotta wonder how odo rollback and car theft can still go on with all the computerized title records and chipped security car keys.

I see no reason why not, I know on most Japanese makes it is easier than German. But it is possible for the guysthat know the makes electronics really well. The same way they program it for performance kits sometimes. It is just a number stored in an EEPROM in one of the ECU's. Ones you "hack" into it, there is basically now limit to what you can do.

I think you can get a new computer with lower mileage and that's it. I had my computer changed by a professional, they have to roll the mileage one way or the other to get it to your orignal mileage. In my case they had to make it A LOT higher.:rolleye2:

You can get a diffrent odometer cluster. A lot of guys with Acuras get the Type R cluster, and sell the stock low mile cluster for a nice mint. But the dealerships dont know the diffrence cuz its a simple and clean swap out of the clusters. The milage is stored in the cluster and not the ECU.

i was once in a ford tow truck and the speed (mph) wasn't working.

he told me he dissconnected it so it miles wouldn't go up.

He said you had to plug it back in 24 hours before service so the computer wouldn't register it being unpluged.

Hi guys n' gals,
I'm obviously fairly new to this site and was intrigued by this thread enough to chime in on it. For the record, I've got an AAS in Automotive Tech and about 4 years of experience before becoming disabled.

If you off-road your vehicle, chances are you are commiting odometer fraud yourselves ;)

Think about it- if you put larger tires on your vehicle without recalibrating the speedometer/odometer- then the mileage will roll over (a certain percentage-depending on size and gearing) slower than if you had stock tires and visa versa. For example, my 94 4Runner was bought with 235/75/15 tires on it and 208k miles. Well, the vehicle came from the factory with 31x10.50's meaning that - theoretically the mileage could be off as much as 20k miles lower than what the odometer reads. The same goes for gear ratios.

While this isn't exactly something that is sought out or even thought much about- it is an issue and it is technically illegal. Kinda like the catalytic convertor issue. It's actually illegal to replace any catalytic convertor on a vehicle with less than 60k miles unless faulty. It's also illegal to resell used cats.

Also, at least in North and South Carolina (I think this is Federal) any vehicle over 100k miles is sold as TMU anyways. TMU means true mileage unknown. By law the seller must tell a customer this, but being as it's "supposed" to be common knowledge, they let them look at the nice, trustworthy Carfax reports and keep quiet because the vehicle has 101k miles on the clock. I dare say this law is "left over" from the days when vehicles only had 5-digit odometers. It's really rather ridiculous because if the vehicle really has 101k then the True Miles ARE known! This is a major reason a vehicle's value plummets when it hits the 100k mark.

Even if the odometer is immediately replaced by a dealer and documented inside the door jamb the showing the mileage at which it was replaced it will still have to be sold as TMU.

More importantly though is the fact that mileage means very little when it comes to the condition of a vehicle. As someone mentioned, mileage has to do with price more than anything. A vehicle with 30k miles may actually be in worse shape than one that was meticulously maintained at 200k miles.

I worked at a Mazda dealership a while back and a guy brought in his car for its first oil change at 30 thousand miles! As far as I'm concerned, it could have its oil changed every 2k miles from then on out, but the damage was done. I brought some of the oil to my service manager to bring to the customer and it was black as night and thick as honey.

When shopping for a used vehicle- mileage is really a very small factor in the overall process of doing such. If you don't feel confident inspecting a vehicle yourself, take it to a mechanic to have it inspected. Carfax reports are nice to have and if you're searching around for a car- get the 1 month subscription so that you can run every vehicle you're interested through.

Having rambled through all this, I have just one more thing to say-
I personally would never buy a new vehicle. It's about as smart as buying 2 used cars and throwing 1 away. Buying a "first model" or a redesigned model in its first year is even worse. If you just have to have a new one, let the company get the kinks and flaws worked out of it first.
Idealistically, if you just have to have that new car smell- buy a certified pre-owned under warranty. That way someone else has already paid the 20% depreciation the car went through just by being titled.

On a good note, it's getting harder and harder for a vehicle's odometer to be tampered with. With Carfax miles, title mileage documentation and more and more automakers storing mileage into its computer. As someone said- a computer can be changed out, but it will still most likely show a discrepency in mileage somewhere along the documentation of the vehicle.

My $.0002 ;)

~R

I wholesaled cars and trucks in Arizona for about 20 years (retired for awhile now), but here, the mileage rating system for vehicle titles is a little bit different than what you describe. In AZ, When transferring title to a vehicle, the private owner or dealer certifies that mileage shown is Box 1, Box 2, or Box 3.

Box 1 is actual miles as shown on odo to best of knowledge.
Box 2 is over 100K to best of knowledge
Box 3 is TMU, true miles unknown

6 digit odometer vehicles with accurate mileage would therefore be titled as Box 1.
Box 2 designation is for 5 digit odos with over 100K, accurate mileage.

About 20 years ago I was getting ready to go on a road trip out west...I brought my car in for an oil change right before the trip, and the mechanic offered to set my odometer back for an extra 50 bucks.

Ten years ago I knew someone who bought a brand new Toyota tacoma. Their daily commute was 80 miles one way, so 160 miles every day was going on that vehicle. Pretty much the day he bought it he dissconnected the odometer/speedometer, and drove it that way off and on for 5 years. When he sold it the odometer said 60k miles but the truck probably had over 180k real miles on it.

After those two experiences I really have a hard time buying a used vehicle.

The past three vehicles Ive owned I bought new, and drove each until it pretty much died. I know I lost money in terms of depreciation, and in some cases getting leases, but the peace of mind of having a vehicle that you know the history of, and also of having a brand new vehicle that you know will be free from (hopefully anyway) of major issues for 3-5 years is well worth it.

I would only buy a certified used car with under 20,000 miles and the 100k powertrain warranty from a dealer. But there are many good values on a off lease 2 year old low mileage certified car out there. Plus the power train warranty is better than factory.