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Old 05-24-2012, 02:07 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWrench View Post
What I think you are missing, is the difference between the oem V6 hitch receiver, and the heavier duty V8 hitch receiver. Because of the way it is mounted to the rear crossmember only, the oem V6 hitch receiver is NOT rated for use with any type of Weight Distribution system (it states this in the owners manual) only weight carrying hardware is permitted. According to the figures in my owners manual, the 4WD V6 hitch receiver is rated for a maximum of 500 lbs tongue weight and 5,000 lbs trailer (towed) weight. But with the optional towing package installed (frame mounted hitch receiver, and aux trans cooler), these numbers are increased to 640 lbs tongue weight and 6,400 lbs max trailer (towed) weight for the 4WD V6. The V8 numbers are higher.

As I tried to explain in my earlier post, because of the rotational torque that a weight distribution system imparts to the hitch receiver, the crossmember mounted hitch receiver is not rated for any type of weight distribution system. With enough load applied via the weight distribution system, the rear crossmember may twist out of position. This is why only a frame mounted hitch receiver is rated for any weight distribution system.
If you don't mind me asking, where'd you get the 640/6400 ratings? I've thought of adding the v8 hitch and cooler to up the capicity to that of a tacoma..the only difference between 4r and taco is the cooler and hitch.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:08 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine View Post
I completely understand the physics involved with a WDH. Actually what I was missing what the sense to read the owner’s manual and not assume that a WDH would be compatible with my vehicle! (It hadn't even occurred to me that I needed to be aware of this) Thanks for the heads up! Double thanks for bearing with me and my ignorance!

Pulling straight from the '07 owner’s manual:

"Do not install weight distributing
hitch to weight carrying hitch receiver
because it will be damaged
your vehicle."

Their grammar is completely messed up but the message is clear.

I want to kick Toyota for putting a 500 lb tongue rating on this vehicle right now. No way you want to run the stock suspension with 500 lbs aft of the rear axle! This is why I bought a weight distributing hitch so I could properly balance my load. Oh well.

So now I'm guessing I need to research a weight distributing hitch receiver for my 4Runner? I already own the WDH and returning it would cost 1/3 of the purchase price and I'd still be left with a less than ideal towing situation. Any suggestions off the top of your head?
See if a hitch from a 4th gen v8 fits or look aftermarket. I'm sure reese, surepull or curt make one that mounts to the frame rails..
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:18 PM #18
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I just pulled the trigger on Draw-Tite #75155. I ordered it from etrailer and then had them price match another online retailer that had it for about $165 shipped. There's a $30 mail-in rebate on the Draw-Tite hitch right now. I think $135 after rebate is a nice price but I didn't have time to do an exhaustive search over all of the internet.

Thanks for calling this to my attention gentlemen! Now I need to get smart on transmission coolers.

-David
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:53 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine View Post
I already own the WDH and returning it would cost 1/3 of the purchase price and I'd still be left with a less than ideal towing situation. Any suggestions off the top of your head?
You need airbags! They work great- here's a link to mine...

Airlift 1000 airbags
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:22 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antman View Post
You need airbags! They work great- here's a link to mine...

Airlift 1000 airbags
Very nice and pretty simple and straightforward to boot! The only issue I could see is that I'm not sure much if any load is actually moved forward to the front of the vehicle (and back to the trailer) for towing things that have a decently high tongue weight like my pop up does. I need to equalize the weight across the three axles for the best braking and handling possible, especially with the fact that I will be towing as high as 10,000' and routeinely above 6,000' getting to where I want to go.

If I were to put a cargo carrier, large bike rack, or just about anything else aft of the rear axle besides a trailer then airbags are THE solution!
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:45 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08T4R View Post
If you don't mind me asking, where'd you get the 640/6400 ratings? I've thought of adding the v8 hitch and cooler to up the capicity to that of a tacoma..the only difference between 4r and taco is the cooler and hitch.
Right out of the owners manual, pg 262.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:54 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine View Post
Very nice and pretty simple and straightforward to boot! The only issue I could see is that I'm not sure much if any load is actually moved forward to the front of the vehicle (and back to the trailer) for towing things that have a decently high tongue weight like my pop up does. I need to equalize the weight across the three axles for the best braking and handling possible, especially with the fact that I will be towing as high as 10,000' and routeinely above 6,000' getting to where I want to go.

If I were to put a cargo carrier, large bike rack, or just about anything else aft of the rear axle besides a trailer then airbags are THE solution!
You are correct, an air bag kit, or helper springs will only reduce the amount of suspension drop when the load is placed on the hitch. They will not help with transfering some of the load to the front axle. Only a WD system will acomplish that. IMHO, if necessary, an adjustable air system is the better choice. You can adjust the amount of lift based on the load, and when not loaded, reduce the assist and return to normal ride height and ride comfort.

Also, installing an air lift system will most likely mean you will have to re-do the setup for the WD system to achieve proper weight transfer and a level trailer.
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Last edited by TechWrench; 05-24-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:12 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine View Post
I just pulled the trigger on Draw-Tite #75155. I ordered it from etrailer and then had them price match another online retailer that had it for about $165 shipped. There's a $30 mail-in rebate on the Draw-Tite hitch right now. I think $135 after rebate is a nice price but I didn't have time to do an exhaustive search over all of the internet.

Thanks for calling this to my attention gentlemen! Now I need to get smart on transmission coolers.

-David
Looks like you got a good deal on the receiver hitch. It is interesting to note that the manufacturers appear to have reduced the max tongue and tow weight ratings over time, compared to when I got mine. If Toyota still locates the electrical connection in the same place as mine ('03), then you will have to relocate yours to the bracket on the new hitch. I had to remove two of the wire-ties holding the wiring harness to the underside floor of the vehicle, next to the spare, to get enough slack to let it reach the new mounting location. And, unless they made it easier, the bigest obstacle you will have is removing the oem hitch. Unless it has changed from my vintage, it is mounted to the rear crossmember with 6 large bolts. Only two are easily acccessed. I had to remove the bumper cover to get the other 4. Not too complicated, just a lot extra work.

Good luck, and watch out for those knuckles................
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:17 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine View Post
I just pulled the trigger on Draw-Tite #75155. I ordered it from etrailer and then had them price match another online retailer that had it for about $165 shipped. There's a $30 mail-in rebate on the Draw-Tite hitch right now. I think $135 after rebate is a nice price but I didn't have time to do an exhaustive search over all of the internet.

Thanks for calling this to my attention gentlemen! Now I need to get smart on transmission coolers.

-David
There are several companies making aux trans coolers, but I installed a Hayden and am very happy with it. They make several different sizes (and at the moment I can't remember which one I have). I installed mine in series after the oem radiator cooler. I mounted it in front of the radiator/A/C condenser, and it works great.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:25 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWrench View Post
Good luck, and watch out for those knuckles................
Bustin' knuckles is part of the fun. It's when you bust knuckles that still haven't healed from their last good bustin' that it actually starts to bother me! Actually I manage to wear thin gloves when I can and am good friends with a bottle of New-Skin for the rest of the time.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:40 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine View Post
Bustin' knuckles is part of the fun. It's when you bust knuckles that still haven't healed from their last good bustin' that it actually starts to bother me! Actually I manage to wear thin gloves when I can and am good friends with a bottle of New-Skin for the rest of the time.
I have been twisting wrenches for over 40 years, and gave up counting the scars and other assorted 'modifications' that I have been 'blessed' with over the years. Fortunately, none of them were serious, only cosmetic........
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:26 AM #27
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TechWrench Since my last post I have been checking into the WD hitch and the V-6. I am yet to find ANY documentation from Toyota confirming this. I have talked to a service manager and a parts manager at a dealer and they can find nothing from Toyota to confirm this.

It does state that for the V8 to carry it full weight you need a weight distributing hitch. But I have been unable to find any claim from Toyota stating or advising against using a WD hitch with the V6.

Where do you get your info? I do see posts from individuals who say what you say but I see post from individuals that disagree. Peoples opinions are just that, opinions. What proof is there to say that you shouldn't use a WD hitch with a V6?

I am currently on hold with a Toyota rep who is researching this.

They mentioned exactly what is in the manual:

Towing capacity (trailer weight + cargo
weight), kg (lb.):
For weight carrying hitch 2268 (5000)
Also for weight distributing hitch2UZ- FE engine only
Two- wheel drive models
3311 (7300)
Four- wheel drive models
3175 (7000)

According to the rep I spoke to there are no issues, notices warning or whatever that speak about problems or other issues using a WD hitch with the V6. The rep then stated had there been any problems associated with this they would be able to reference them.

I have checked with Toyota three different ways and I have found nothing from Toyota that states there is a problem using a WD hitch with the V6 as long as I stay within the recommended weight limits outlined in the owners manual.

Last edited by Ross; 05-31-2012 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:48 AM #28
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I think this was cleared up already, but here is "my" attempt for the benefit of others and for myself if I got this wrong to be corrected. After a bunch of time trying to figure this out here is what I came up with.

This link
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/94003-tow-hitch-2.html#post826896

shows the standard hitch "Reciever" found on the 4th Gen V6 4Runner. It bolts up to the middle of the last crossmember hidden by the plastic bumper cover rated for 5000lbs. On the V8 this is also rated for 5000lbs.


This next link is a hitch receiver that is similar in concept to the optional V8 hitch receiver. There is nothing stopping you from installing this type of receiver onto a V6 4Runner. Notice that it bolts to the frame rails on both sides and not just right in the middle. That is key here in its' ability to distribute weight. Alos note that there are 2 weight ratings.

Weight Carrying: 600/6,000 lbs. (TW/GTW)
Weight Distributing: 730/7,300 lbs. (TW/GTW)

So now if the truck that this gets bolted onto, is capable of pulling and stopping the load, it now has a "receiver hitch" "Rated" for 600/6,000 lbs. (TW/GTW) "weight carrying" meaning that the total weight of the load, trailer+whatever is on the trailer weighs max 6000lbs.

http://www.hiddenhitch.com/content/products.aspx?lvl=3&parentid=1000&catID=1040&part=70779

If you then add this contraption, you will be able to make use of the Weight Distributing: 730/7,300 lbs. (TW/GTW) "Rating" of the hitch receiver. Even on the V8, without this contraption you probably shouldn't be towing the 7000lbs. It is not just the receiver that dictates you capacity, but the whole weight distribution system.

Common Weight Distribution and Sway Control Questions | etrailer.com
Attached Images
weight distributing hitch-faq065_hh_500-jpg 
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:35 AM #29
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Originally Posted by CAN-03runner View Post
I think this was cleared up already, but here is "my" attempt for the benefit of others and for myself if I got this wrong to be corrected. After a bunch of time trying to figure this out here is what I came up with.

This link
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/94003-tow-hitch-2.html#post826896

shows the standard hitch "Reciever" found on the 4th Gen V6 4Runner. It bolts up to the middle of the last crossmember hidden by the plastic bumper cover rated for 5000lbs. On the V8 this is also rated for 5000lbs.


This next link is a hitch receiver that is similar in concept to the optional V8 hitch receiver. There is nothing stopping you from installing this type of receiver onto a V6 4Runner. Notice that it bolts to the frame rails on both sides and not just right in the middle. That is key here in its' ability to distribute weight. Alos note that there are 2 weight ratings.

Weight Carrying: 600/6,000 lbs. (TW/GTW)
Weight Distributing: 730/7,300 lbs. (TW/GTW)

So now if the truck that this gets bolted onto, is capable of pulling and stopping the load, it now has a "receiver hitch" "Rated" for 600/6,000 lbs. (TW/GTW) "weight carrying" meaning that the total weight of the load, trailer+whatever is on the trailer weighs max 6000lbs.

http://www.hiddenhitch.com/content/products.aspx?lvl=3&parentid=1000&catID=1040&part=70779

If you then add this contraption, you will be able to make use of the Weight Distributing: 730/7,300 lbs. (TW/GTW) "Rating" of the hitch receiver. Even on the V8, without this contraption you probably shouldn't be towing the 7000lbs. It is not just the receiver that dictates you capacity, but the whole weight distribution system.

Common Weight Distribution and Sway Control Questions | etrailer.com
There is more than the hitch. You have brakes, suspension, drive line (axels and gears), aux coolers. There may be other components or structural differences that need to be considered.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:58 PM #30
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Right, that's why I never said bolt this up and go out and pull 7000lbs. I'm just saying the basic hitch is officially rated for 5000lbs, this hitch is officialy rated for 6000lbs and 7300lbs if you have all the weight distributing goodies and your truck can handle it.

I put up the picture and links to hopefully try to make sure we were all talking about the same parts and that the full weight distributing hitch is not just made up of the receiver. I think one of the points that people are talking about here is that the weight distributing torsion bars should only be used with a weight distributing hitch receiver and not the standard 4Runner hitch bolted to the center of the last crossmember if you are going to come close to the max rating of the hitch receiver.

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So now if the truck that this gets bolted onto, is capable of pulling and stopping the load, it now has a "receiver hitch" "Rated" for 600/6,000 lbs. (TW/GTW) "weight carrying" meaning that the total weight of the load, trailer+whatever is on the trailer weighs max 6000lbs.
Just like you can bolt this up to a yaris, doesn't mean you should pull a trailer with it, and because your pickup can pull 12000lbs..but not with a ClassII hitch.

I have sucessfully pulled 6000lbs with my V8 4runner sport with OME suspension and the standard 5000lbs hitch several times for about 40miles almost all highway. Its not that far, but not around the block either. It did very well. Now I am installing the 6000lbs hitch receiver. But enventhough the hitches are made with a lot of over doing it.

What I would identify as the key element is trailer brakes. I really could feel them slowing the trailer down, and I didn't feel like the trailer was pushing me at all or that I had to press harder on the brake pedal.
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