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Old 05-31-2012, 03:43 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAN-03runner View Post
Right, that's why I never said bolt this up and go out and pull 7000lbs. I'm just saying the basic hitch is officially rated for 5000lbs, this hitch is officialy rated for 6000lbs and 7300lbs if you have all the weight distributing goodies and your truck can handle it.

I put up the picture and links to hopefully try to make sure we were all talking about the same parts and that the full weight distributing hitch is not just made up of the receiver. I think one of the points that people are talking about here is that the weight distributing torsion bars should only be used with a weight distributing hitch receiver and not the standard 4Runner hitch bolted to the center of the last crossmember if you are going to come close to the max rating of the hitch receiver.

There is allot of misunderstanding here. Adding the WD will not increase the amount that the V6 will pull but it will tow better. Nowhere does Toyota state you cannot use a WD hitch with the V6. There are people who claim it can't but there is nothing to base that on.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:08 PM #32
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Ross, I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me, or disagreeing with me.

In the quoted text of mine, I don't say "bolt this on and go out and pull more than 5000 lbs".

And in the bolded text I'm saying the torsion bars of the weight distributing system works best with a weight distributing hitch receiver.

The tounge weight also increase with one of these hitch receivers, with or without the distribution system.

Also if you were going to pull more than 5000lbs, then the standard hitch is not officially rated for more than 5000 lbs.

As additional info concerning the V6 I can add this. I have 2 trail buddies who pulled camper trailers with V6 FJ cruisers that weigh more than 5000 lbs. One guy added a tranny cooler. To be fair one of those guys went and traded his FJ for a dodge ram instead. The issue is the transmission is hunting for the right gear when going uphill. But I'm not sure if they keep it in D or 4, and also that guy might have wanted a big pickup anyway...so that was his excuse in his mind.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:52 PM #33
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Ok, now I"m thoroughly confused. I understand the WCH and WDH. I have an 06 V6 4WD, with hitch. I looked and it is mounted to the rails, not simply the rear crossmember. So I can mount a WDH, correct? And remain under 500/5000#? We're looking at travel trailers and want to make sure we'll be ok.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:06 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
TechWrench Since my last post I have been checking into the WD hitch and the V-6. I am yet to find ANY documentation from Toyota confirming this. I have talked to a service manager and a parts manager at a dealer and they can find nothing from Toyota to confirm this.

It does state that for the V8 to carry it full weight you need a weight distributing hitch. But I have been unable to find any claim from Toyota stating or advising against using a WD hitch with the V6.

Where do you get your info? I do see posts from individuals who say what you say but I see post from individuals that disagree. Peoples opinions are just that, opinions. What proof is there to say that you shouldn't use a WD hitch with a V6?

I am currently on hold with a Toyota rep who is researching this.

They mentioned exactly what is in the manual:

Towing capacity (trailer weight + cargo
weight), kg (lb.):
For weight carrying hitch 2268 (5000)
Also for weight distributing hitch2UZ- FE engine only
Two- wheel drive models
3311 (7300)
Four- wheel drive models
3175 (7000)

According to the rep I spoke to there are no issues, notices warning or whatever that speak about problems or other issues using a WD hitch with the V6. The rep then stated had there been any problems associated with this they would be able to reference them.

I have checked with Toyota three different ways and I have found nothing from Toyota that states there is a problem using a WD hitch with the V6 as long as I stay within the recommended weight limits outlined in the owners manual.
I got my information directly from the Toyota oem owners manual that came with my '03 V6 4Runner. The following is a direct quote from page 264, upper right corner, under the heading "HITCHES"

"Use only weight carrying hitch hardware designed for the total trailer weight with the factory installed hitch." I added the color highlighting to emphasize the area in question.

Just because the Toyota dealer personnel aren't aware of the issue, doesn't mean it isn't valid. I have found quite often, over the years, that some dealership employees are less knowledgable about the vehicles they sell than many of the enthusiasts that frequent this forum. I have done my best to explain the reason why a weight distribution system is not a good idea with the factory V6 receiver hitch that is mounted to the rear crossmember. It is up to you to decide what you do with your vehicle.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:19 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g8r4runner View Post
Ok, now I"m thoroughly confused. I understand the WCH and WDH. I have an 06 V6 4WD, with hitch. I looked and it is mounted to the rails, not simply the rear crossmember. So I can mount a WDH, correct? And remain under 500/5000#? We're looking at travel trailers and want to make sure we'll be ok.
If you are sure the receiver hitch on your vehicle is mounted directly to the two main frame members on either side of the spare, then you should be able to use a weight distribution system properly rated for the size/weight trailer you intend to pull. Just remember, the oem V6 factory hitch is mounted by six bolts to a crossmember, which passes directly behind the spare, and is welded to both frame members. That rear crossmember is not designed with the same strength as the integral crossmember that all frame mounted receiver hitches rated for weight distribution are. Also remember that not all frame mounted receiver hitches are built or rated the same. Different manufacturers have designed them for different max ratings. Just look at some of the different models listed, for the same vehicle, on any of the aftermarket hitch suppliers sites, and see the difference in ratings between them. One should know exactly what the equipment they are using, or intend to use, is rated for.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:33 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g8r4runner View Post
Ok, now I"m thoroughly confused. I understand the WCH and WDH. I have an 06 V6 4WD, with hitch. I looked and it is mounted to the rails, not simply the rear crossmember. So I can mount a WDH, correct? And remain under 500/5000#? We're looking at travel trailers and want to make sure we'll be ok.
I say yes. The truck and hitch is rated for 500/5000 and toyota says you can pull 5000 so why wouldn't it be able to. But I would make sure the trailer has brakes and a transmission cooler if your 4runner doesn't have one already.

To make your towing experience more enjoyable, have peace of mind, whatever, you may want to look into the extras and goodies like load balancing and sway control and maybe air bag helper springs. Maybe you'll need it, and maybe not.

My experience has been very good without that stuff. Except I have a lift with OME weight carrying springs.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:11 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g8r4runner View Post
Ok, now I"m thoroughly confused. I understand the WCH and WDH. I have an 06 V6 4WD, with hitch. I looked and it is mounted to the rails, not simply the rear crossmember. So I can mount a WDH, correct? And remain under 500/5000#? We're looking at travel trailers and want to make sure we'll be ok.
According to those I have talked to from Toyota, you can use a WD hitch with a 4th gen V6. There is nothing additional you will need to mount to your vehicle. The hitches you plug into your vehicle will be different, there are a couple of torsion bars that mount to that hitch and it then attached to the trailer usually with a chain. The chain attaches to amount that is attached to the trailer.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:49 PM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
According to those I have talked to from Toyota, you can use a WD hitch with a 4th gen V6. There is nothing additional you will need to mount to your vehicle. The hitches you plug into your vehicle will be different, there are a couple of torsion bars that mount to that hitch and it then attached to the trailer usually with a chain. The chain attaches to amount that is attached to the trailer.
If the 'experts' at Toyota tell you to use a WD hitch with your V6 oem hitch, then by my guest, it's not my vehicle. But, if the rear crossmember bends out of shape, will they be willing to make it good for you? I bet not!!!

FYI, the picture of the two system in your post, IS a Weight Distribution hitch system. Any tow system that uses spring bars attached to the ball mount head, and connected to the trailer frame with either adjustable chains or support brackets is a weight distribution system. Any tow system that uses only a ball mount to support the trailer weight without any type of spring bar or leveling system is a Weight Carrying system. The two systems are not the same, and they each affect the tow vehicle differently.

I have done all I can to explain my position on this issue. If I am not getting through, I guess I have failed in my many attempts at explaining myself. If anyone feels that the 'brilliant' service people at these Toyota dealers know more than all the experienced towing experts I have read and talked to, then by all means do as you wish. I see no benefit in my continuing this discussion any further.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:20 AM #39
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I'm not sure if some of us here are violently agreeing or whether there's disagreement or confusion or some of everything.

Page 365 of my 2007 Owner's Manual contains the following notice:

"Do not install weight distributing hitch to weight carrying hitch receiver because it will be damaged your vehicle" (their bad grammar, not mine).

Is anyone here of the opinion that this says anything OTHER than DO NOT install a weight distributing hitch (parts containing the hitch ball and spring bars) to a weight CARRYING (not distributing) hitch receiver (a.k.a. the stock receiver that is bolted to the aft crossmember)?

So, you need one of these 2007 Toyota 4Runner Trailer Hitch | etrailer.com in order to use one of these WD Only Up to 10000 lbs GTW Weight Distribution | etrailer.com
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:42 AM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdnanceMarine View Post
I'm not sure if some of us here are violently agreeing or whether there's disagreement or confusion or some of everything.

Page 365 of my 2007 Owner's Manual contains the following notice:

"Do not install weight distributing hitch to weight carrying hitch receiver because it will be damaged your vehicle" (their bad grammar, not mine).

Is anyone here of the opinion that this says anything OTHER than DO NOT install a weight distributing hitch (parts containing the hitch ball and spring bars) to a weight CARRYING (not distributing) hitch receiver (a.k.a. the stock receiver that is bolted to the aft crossmember)?

So, you need one of these 2007 Toyota 4Runner Trailer Hitch | etrailer.com in order to use one of these WD Only Up to 10000 lbs GTW Weight Distribution | etrailer.com
Just what I have been trying to say, but it appears to be falling on some deaf ears. There are those that feel the dealership personnel are the last/best source of technical information on our 4Runners. Saddly, it has been proved to me over and over again that this is not the case. I am sure there are some very competent Toyota employees out there, and I appologize to them, but there are many who know very little when it comes to general sales and how to perform basic service on a vehicle.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:30 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWrench View Post
I got my information directly from the Toyota oem owners manual that came with my '03 V6 4Runner. The following is a direct quote from page 264, upper right corner, under the heading "HITCHES"

"Use only weight carrying hitch hardware designed for the total trailer weight with the factory installed hitch." I added the color highlighting to emphasize the area in question.

Just because the Toyota dealer personnel aren't aware of the issue, doesn't mean it isn't valid. I have found quite often, over the years, that some dealership employees are less knowledgable about the vehicles they sell than many of the enthusiasts that frequent this forum. I have done my best to explain the reason why a weight distribution system is not a good idea with the factory V6 receiver hitch that is mounted to the rear crossmember. It is up to you to decide what you do with your vehicle.
There must be multiple manuals. On page 264 the manual I am looking at talks about cup holders and bottle holders. I wonder if they have different info about towing. I will the one I have when Iget home.

Here is what I find in the owner’s manual I find on the net, pg 307:

If towing a trailer and cargo overweighing over 967kg (2000 lb.) it is necessary to use a sway control device with sufficient capacity. The combination the gross weight of the vehicles, occupants and vehicle cargo must never exceed a total of the following:
For weight carrying hitch
1GR-FE engine
4354 (9600 lbs)
To also mentions the other motors.


But then I read this on page 309:
"Do not install weight distributing hitch to weight carrying hitch receiver because it will be damaged your vehicle" (this is a quote don't blame me for the grammar.

I guess that makes it clear, NO weight distributing hitch, I was wrong. I guess I will look for a sway control device.

Last edited by Ross; 06-04-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:16 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
There must be multiple manuals. On page 264 the manual I am looking at talks about cup holders and bottle holders. I wonder if they have different info about towing. I will the one I have when Iget home.

Here is what I find in the owner’s manual I find on the net, pg 307:

If towing a trailer and cargo overweighing over 967kg (2000 lb.) it is necessary to use a sway control device with sufficient capacity. The combination the gross weight of the vehicles, occupants and vehicle cargo must never exceed a total of the following:
For weight carrying hitch
1GR-FE engine
4354 (9600 lbs)
To also mentions the other motors.


But then I read this on page 309:
"Do not install weight distributing hitch to weight carrying hitch receiver because it will be damaged your vehicle" (this is a quote don't blame me for the grammar.

I guess that makes it clear, NO weight distributing hitch, I was wrong. I guess I will look for a sway control device.
I am pretty sure the owners manuals change over the years, so as they add or delete information specific sections may change the page numbers they are located on. If I remember correctly, earlier in this thread, another posted the same quote from, I believe, an '07 manual. And, it would appear that the warning about not using weight disbributing hitchs has gotten more specific in the years following my '03.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:35 AM #43
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I am pretty sure the owners manuals change over the years, so as they add or delete information specific sections may change the page numbers they are located on. If I remember correctly, earlier in this thread, another posted the same quote from, I believe, an '07 manual. And, it would appear that the warning about not using weight disbributing hitchs has gotten more specific in the years following my '03.
I called Toyota, waited on hold while so they could research it. After a few minutes when came back and said they had nothing in print, no issues or bulletins stating my 04 V6 could not use a WD hitch. I have found nothing in my 04 manual but when I googled for an 04 manual I found what I posted above. She even posted took down my VIN number, to check to see how mine was equipped.

Last edited by Ross; 06-05-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:49 AM #44
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I called Toyota, waited on hold while so they could research it. After a few minutes when came back and said they had nothing in print, no issues or bulletins stating my 04 V6 could not use a WD hitch. I have found nothing in my 04 manual but when I googled for an 04 manual I found what I posted above. She even posted took down my VIN number, to check to see how mine was equipped.
I don't know why the online version of the manual would differ from the print version you received with the vehicle. My best guess would be that after Toyota determined the warning about not using WD systems with the V6 hitch needed to be upgraded, they made retroactive changes to the online versions to keep them updated. Which of course isn't possible with the printed ones. I looked back through this thread, and post #15, from OrdnanceMarine, indicated the same specific warning was in his '07 manual.

When I first decided I needed a WD system to tow my camper trailer, I wasn't aware of the warning against them in my '03 manual. But, after talking to members of the RV forums I frequent and speaking to support technicians from Equal-i-zer manufacturer (which is the WD system I use), I decided that upgrading the factory V6 hitch was necessary. I don't profess to be an engineer, but when I look at the difference between the factory V6 hitch and the various frame mounted models, it seems logical to me the upgrade was necessary.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:13 PM #45
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I don't know why the online version of the manual would differ from the print version you received with the vehicle. My best guess would be that after Toyota determined the warning about not using WD systems with the V6 hitch needed to be upgraded, they made retroactive changes to the online versions to keep them updated. Which of course isn't possible with the printed ones. I looked back through this thread, and post #15, from OrdnanceMarine, indicated the same specific warning was in his '07 manual.

When I first decided I needed a WD system to tow my camper trailer, I wasn't aware of the warning against them in my '03 manual. But, after talking to members of the RV forums I frequent and speaking to support technicians from Equal-i-zer manufacturer (which is the WD system I use), I decided that upgrading the factory V6 hitch was necessary. I don't profess to be an engineer, but when I look at the difference between the factory V6 hitch and the various frame mounted models, it seems logical to me the upgrade was necessary.
That is what I will have to do. After towing with a WD hitch I don't want to tow without it.
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