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Old 04-19-2012, 03:37 PM #1
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weight distributing hitch

2011 4 runner,I know OEM hitch is rated at 500/5000,but it's not really mounted on frame rails,it seems to be mounted on bumper which is mounted to frame rails,does Toyota sell a hitch that actually mounts onto frame rails,instead of bumper?...or is there an aftermarket that make one? THX

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Old 04-19-2012, 04:00 PM #2
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oem rated 500/5000
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:02 PM #3
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I am pretty sure the hitch is part of the rear cross member of the frame and the bumper goes over it. You might want to take a closer look to confirm but that is what I remember.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:23 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikeman View Post
I am pretty sure the hitch is part of the rear cross member of the frame and the bumper goes over it. You might want to take a closer look to confirm but that is what I remember.
You are correct,most weight distrubuting hitches are bolted to the frame rails like a ford or chevy,toyota mounts it on rear crossmember,which doesn't distribute the load as well as if it was mounted on actual frame rails,aka ford dodge chevy....just trying to find out if there is an aftermarket company (reese drawtite etc) that make one.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:58 AM #5
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Ok several things here.... The hitch is part of the frame.. therefore distributes the weight through the frame as opposed to a secondary consideration like the ford or chevy. Also you are usinjg the wrong terminology or phrasing for your question.

A weight distributing hitch is actually referring to the actual coupling device used in conjunction with the ball. It is usually a torsion spring with chain on each side of the ball which helps with sway and to distribute the weight.

To answer your other question a quick google search and going through application guide on DrawTite, Reeese and Hitch Depot, none of them listed a bolt on/under appliction for the 2010+ 4Runner. I guess they realize that a Class III rated receiver hitch is a Class III rated receiver hitch wether it is mounted as part of the frame(like your truck) or under the frame. Either way it is still tested and certified for that weight rating.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:46 PM #6
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I think there is a misunderstanding about the difference between a weight carrying hitch and a weight distribution hitch. They are two different hitches, and on the 4th gen 4runners, they are mounted differently on the vehicle. I don't have any experience with the 5th gen 4Runner, so I am going to use the 4th gen setup for reference. The oem weight carrying hitch (for the V6's) is mounted to the rear crossmember, underneath the bumper cover. It is rated for 500 lbs max tongue weight and 5,000 lbs max pull weight. It is NOT designed to be used with a weight distribution system, because the rear crossmember it is mounted on is not designed to handle the rotational torque stress that a weight distribution system will put on it. On the other hand, the frame mounted hitch, like those on most V8's, is designed to be used with a weight distribution system because it is directly mounted to each of the main frame rails. When a weight distribution system is used with it, the rotational torque is applied directly to the frame rails through the hitch. If you need a weight distribution system to control sway or handle a heavier trailer, you MUST have a frame mounted hitch for it to work properly and not damage the rear crossmember.

Since Toyota, as far as I know, does not have a V8 option available for the 5th gen 4Runners, I doubt they have a factory frame mounted hitch available. I do not know if there are any aftermarket 5th gen frame mounted hitches available yet. And I don't know if the frames between the 4th gen and 5th gen are close enough to allow a 4th gen frame mounted hitch to fit the 5th gen.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:42 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWrench View Post
I think there is a misunderstanding about the difference between a weight carrying hitch and a weight distribution hitch. They are two different hitches, and on the 4th gen 4runners, they are mounted differently on the vehicle. I don't have any experience with the 5th gen 4Runner, so I am going to use the 4th gen setup for reference. The oem weight carrying hitch (for the V6's) is mounted to the rear crossmember, underneath the bumper cover. It is rated for 500 lbs max tongue weight and 5,000 lbs max pull weight. It is NOT designed to be used with a weight distribution system, because the rear crossmember it is mounted on is not designed to handle the rotational torque stress that a weight distribution system will put on it. On the other hand, the frame mounted hitch, like those on most V8's, is designed to be used with a weight distribution system because it is directly mounted to each of the main frame rails. When a weight distribution system is used with it, the rotational torque is applied directly to the frame rails through the hitch. If you need a weight distribution system to control sway or handle a heavier trailer, you MUST have a frame mounted hitch for it to work properly and not damage the rear crossmember.

Since Toyota, as far as I know, does not have a V8 option available for the 5th gen 4Runners, I doubt they have a factory frame mounted hitch available. I do not know if there are any aftermarket 5th gen frame mounted hitches available yet. And I don't know if the frames between the 4th gen and 5th gen are close enough to allow a 4th gen frame mounted hitch to fit the 5th gen.
Thank you,I'm not worried about trailer wght...it's the tongue wght.you can't put anywhere near 500lb tongue wght on the back of a 5th gen 4 runner,without the axle hitting the bump stops.Thought the hitch was mounted like a ford/chevy,should of realized this before purchase
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:54 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drnick View Post
Thank you,I'm not worried about trailer wght...it's the tongue wght.you can't put anywhere near 500lb tongue wght on the back of a 5th gen 4 runner,without the axle hitting the bump stops.Thought the hitch was mounted like a ford/chevy,should of realized this before purchase
Wow, I didn't know the 5th gen was that much different than the 4th. Unless you can re-distribute the weight of the trailer to lessen the tongue weight to a managable level with the factory rear suspension, then maybe an adjustable air suspension upgrade to the rear is the way to go.

Good luck.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:27 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWrench View Post
I think there is a misunderstanding about the difference between a weight carrying hitch and a weight distribution hitch. They are two different hitches, and on the 4th gen 4runners, they are mounted differently on the vehicle. I don't have any experience with the 5th gen 4Runner, so I am going to use the 4th gen setup for reference. The oem weight carrying hitch (for the V6's) is mounted to the rear crossmember, underneath the bumper cover. It is rated for 500 lbs max tongue weight and 5,000 lbs max pull weight. It is NOT designed to be used with a weight distribution system, because the rear crossmember it is mounted on is not designed to handle the rotational torque stress that a weight distribution system will put on it. On the other hand, the frame mounted hitch, like those on most V8's, is designed to be used with a weight distribution system because it is directly mounted to each of the main frame rails. When a weight distribution system is used with it, the rotational torque is applied directly to the frame rails through the hitch. If you need a weight distribution system to control sway or handle a heavier trailer, you MUST have a frame mounted hitch for it to work properly and not damage the rear crossmember.

Since Toyota, as far as I know, does not have a V8 option available for the 5th gen 4Runners, I doubt they have a factory frame mounted hitch available. I do not know if there are any aftermarket 5th gen frame mounted hitches available yet. And I don't know if the frames between the 4th gen and 5th gen are close enough to allow a 4th gen frame mounted hitch to fit the 5th gen.

I am not disagreeing with you here but I would like to know how you came to this understanding. I recently started using a weight distributing hitch on my V6 4Runner. There is an incredible difference when using it but if I run the risk of damaging my 4Runner I will stop.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:21 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
I am not disagreeing with you here but I would like to know how you came to this understanding. I recently started using a weight distributing hitch on my V6 4Runner. There is an incredible difference when using it but if I run the risk of damaging my 4Runner I will stop.
I don't know if I can adequately explain the principle of a weight distribution system in just words (ya know what they say about a pic being equal to 1,000 words). But I will give it a try.

The principle behind all (as far as I know) weight distribution systems is to, using the spring bars, transfer some of the felt tongue weight on the rear of the tow vehicle to the front wheels. As I said in my earlier post, most weight distribution systems are incorporated into a specifically modified ball mount, and using the spring bars, which are locked into the ball mount, they impart a rotational torque to the tow vehicle through the hitch mounted on the vehicle. When towing without a weight distribution system, all the tongue weight generated by the towed vehicle is directly applied to the ball mount through the ball coupler on the trailer. Since the ball mount is behind the tow vehicle's rear axle, this tongue weight causes the front end of the tow vehicle to lift because the rear axle of the tow vehicle acts like a fulcrum point of a lever system. The heavier the tongue weight, the lower the rear suspension squats and the higher the front of the tow vehicle lifts. and, there is a vertical pivot point where the trailer coupler meets the ball on the ball mount. What the weight distribution system does is, in essence, stiffen the pivot point at the coupler/ball mount, using the spring bars which are anchored at one end in the ball mount, and tied to the trailer frame behind the coupler using either support chains or support brackets.

There are two main adjustments that are made to a weight distribution system to achieve the desired amount of weight transfer. One is the amount of spring bar tension, made by adjusting the length of the chains or support bracket, and the other is adjusting the angle of the ball mount in relation to the tow vehicles hitch. If the system is adjusted properly, before the chains are connected to the spring bars, when the coupler is attached to the ball mount, the tongue weight will cause the spring bars to angle down, away from the trailer frame. Tension is put on the spring bars when you attach the chains or support brackets, and this tension is transmitted through the ball mount because the bars are fixed to it. Because the ball mount is fixed to the vehicle hitch, this tension is transmitted to the hitch. The hitch then transfers this tension to the tow vehicle through its mounting points. This is the hard part for many to understand, unless you envision the entire system from the side view. This rotational force causes the rear of the tow vehicle to lift slightly, and the frame forces the front of the tow vehicle down, which effects the weight transfer to the front axle. Now, the hitch that is designed to work with a weight distribution system, is rigidly mounted to the vehicle frame, and doesn't allow any twist between the mounting points and the receiver socket, so any rotational force is directly applied to the vehicle frame. With the V6 crossmember type receiver, the crossmember isn't as rigid as the other type of frame mounted receiver, and if enough rotational force is applied, it will twist while trying to transfer this torque to the frame. With a fairly light trailer, and low tension applied to the spring bars, the rear crossmember may be able to handle the load. But as the spring bar tension goes up, with heavier trailers, it will twist.

If this attempt at an explaination doesn't answer your questions, or make sense to you, I suggest you visit one of the weight distribution system manufacturers sites. I use an Equalizer system, and their site has a very through FAQ section which may be of more help. They use pics to illustrate the theory of weight distribution, which may be of more help.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:15 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWrench View Post
I don't know if I can adequately explain the principle of a weight distribution system in just words (ya know what they say about a pic being equal to 1,000 words). But I will give it a try.

The principle behind all (as far as I know) weight distribution systems is to, using the spring bars, transfer some of the felt tongue weight on the rear of the tow vehicle to the front wheels. As I said in my earlier post, most weight distribution systems are incorporated into a specifically modified ball mount, and using the spring bars, which are locked into the ball mount, they impart a rotational torque to the tow vehicle through the hitch mounted on the vehicle. When towing without a weight distribution system, all the tongue weight generated by the towed vehicle is directly applied to the ball mount through the ball coupler on the trailer. Since the ball mount is behind the tow vehicle's rear axle, this tongue weight causes the front end of the tow vehicle to lift because the rear axle of the tow vehicle acts like a fulcrum point of a lever system. The heavier the tongue weight, the lower the rear suspension squats and the higher the front of the tow vehicle lifts. and, there is a vertical pivot point where the trailer coupler meets the ball on the ball mount. What the weight distribution system does is, in essence, stiffen the pivot point at the coupler/ball mount, using the spring bars which are anchored at one end in the ball mount, and tied to the trailer frame behind the coupler using either support chains or support brackets.

There are two main adjustments that are made to a weight distribution system to achieve the desired amount of weight transfer. One is the amount of spring bar tension, made by adjusting the length of the chains or support bracket, and the other is adjusting the angle of the ball mount in relation to the tow vehicles hitch. If the system is adjusted properly, before the chains are connected to the spring bars, when the coupler is attached to the ball mount, the tongue weight will cause the spring bars to angle down, away from the trailer frame. Tension is put on the spring bars when you attach the chains or support brackets, and this tension is transmitted through the ball mount because the bars are fixed to it. Because the ball mount is fixed to the vehicle hitch, this tension is transmitted to the hitch. The hitch then transfers this tension to the tow vehicle through its mounting points. This is the hard part for many to understand, unless you envision the entire system from the side view. This rotational force causes the rear of the tow vehicle to lift slightly, and the frame forces the front of the tow vehicle down, which effects the weight transfer to the front axle. Now, the hitch that is designed to work with a weight distribution system, is rigidly mounted to the vehicle frame, and doesn't allow any twist between the mounting points and the receiver socket, so any rotational force is directly applied to the vehicle frame. With the V6 crossmember type receiver, the crossmember isn't as rigid as the other type of frame mounted receiver, and if enough rotational force is applied, it will twist while trying to transfer this torque to the frame. With a fairly light trailer, and low tension applied to the spring bars, the rear crossmember may be able to handle the load. But as the spring bar tension goes up, with heavier trailers, it will twist.

If this attempt at an explaination doesn't answer your questions, or make sense to you, I suggest you visit one of the weight distribution system manufacturers sites. I use an Equalizer system, and their site has a very through FAQ section which may be of more help. They use pics to illustrate the theory of weight distribution, which may be of more help.
I understand what you are saying, thanks.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:03 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drnick View Post
Thank you,I'm not worried about trailer wght...it's the tongue wght.you can't put anywhere near 500lb tongue wght on the back of a 5th gen 4 runner,without the axle hitting the bump stops.Thought the hitch was mounted like a ford/chevy,should of realized this before purchase
Upgrade the springs and shocks, and get some Airlift load levelers and you're fine.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:56 PM #13
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TechWrench: I think your advice might be a little bit misleading. The way the hitch receiver is setup on the 4th Gen T4R shouldn't have any real bearing on how it will perform when coupled with a WDH as long as you still operate within the parameters the receiver/vehicle conbination is rated for. Keep it at 500 lbs or less (including everyting aft of the rear axle in the cargo area of the vehicle) and you should be golden to use a WDH.

If you think I'm wrong please explain where I'm messing up.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:48 PM #14
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TechWrench: I think your advice might be a little bit misleading. The way the hitch receiver is setup on the 4th Gen T4R shouldn't have any real bearing on how it will perform when coupled with a WDH as long as you still operate within the parameters the receiver/vehicle conbination is rated for. Keep it at 500 lbs or less (including everyting aft of the rear axle in the cargo area of the vehicle) and you should be golden to use a WDH.

If you think I'm wrong please explain where I'm messing up.
What I think you are missing, is the difference between the oem V6 hitch receiver, and the heavier duty V8 hitch receiver. Because of the way it is mounted to the rear crossmember only, the oem V6 hitch receiver is NOT rated for use with any type of Weight Distribution system (it states this in the owners manual) only weight carrying hardware is permitted. According to the figures in my owners manual, the 4WD V6 hitch receiver is rated for a maximum of 500 lbs tongue weight and 5,000 lbs trailer (towed) weight. But with the optional towing package installed (frame mounted hitch receiver, and aux trans cooler), these numbers are increased to 640 lbs tongue weight and 6,400 lbs max trailer (towed) weight for the 4WD V6. The V8 numbers are higher.

As I tried to explain in my earlier post, because of the rotational torque that a weight distribution system imparts to the hitch receiver, the crossmember mounted hitch receiver is not rated for any type of weight distribution system. With enough load applied via the weight distribution system, the rear crossmember may twist out of position. This is why only a frame mounted hitch receiver is rated for any weight distribution system.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:56 PM #15
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Quote:
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What I think you are missing, is the difference between the oem V6 hitch receiver, and the heavier duty V8 hitch receiver. ....................................This is why only a frame mounted hitch receiver is rated for any weight distribution system.
I completely understand the physics involved with a WDH. Actually what I was missing what the sense to read the owner’s manual and not assume that a WDH would be compatible with my vehicle! (It hadn't even occurred to me that I needed to be aware of this) Thanks for the heads up! Double thanks for bearing with me and my ignorance!

Pulling straight from the '07 owner’s manual:

"Do not install weight distributing
hitch to weight carrying hitch receiver
because it will be damaged
your vehicle."

Their grammar is completely messed up but the message is clear.

I want to kick Toyota for putting a 500 lb tongue rating on this vehicle right now. No way you want to run the stock suspension with 500 lbs aft of the rear axle! This is why I bought a weight distributing hitch so I could properly balance my load. Oh well.

So now I'm guessing I need to research a weight distributing hitch receiver for my 4Runner? I already own the WDH and returning it would cost 1/3 of the purchase price and I'd still be left with a less than ideal towing situation. Any suggestions off the top of your head?

NOTE: It is probably useful to make sure we use the proper terminology when describing hitches and receivers so ignorant folks like myself are aware of what exactly we are talking about.

To be technically correct you need a WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING HITCH RECEIVER (one that bolts to the actual frame rails, not the aft cross member like the stock V6 weight CARRYING hitch receiver does) to make use of a WEIGHT DISTRIBUTING HITCH (the piece that actually connects the hitch receiver to the trailer coupler that has the spring bars, chains, and height adjustment to allow you to level out your vehicle while towing).
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