We have stories of big companies killing small companies because they can and have deep pockets. But remember, Gobi did not just wake up one day and decided to sue everyone...it does cost them money too! And they would not just flush money down the toilet for no good reason (aka, no infringement).

We also have stories of little companies infringing on big companies design to make a buck. Big company or not, these original designs cost a lot of R&D...so, it is not just the cost of the end-product that one focuses on.

I do not think that it is wise to make judgment so soon without hearing the OTHER side (Gobi's side).

Gobi may be an ass, but what if they spend all these R&D dollars and then have a small company/individual steal their design? Just because they are big, they are the bad guys? If you run GOBI, then would you not be pissed too?

I am sure that Whitson is a stand up guy with great customer service...but IF he did steal some design features, then he is guilty as the next *******.

I have no idea about these racks nor claim to be on either side...but objectivity is needed and we need to wait for the last bell before making judgment.

Just my opinion.

My only argument with this, is it does costs them some money up front absolutely. But to take out competition and thus becoming one of the only options to produce these its worth the price now to pay for legal fees.
Instead they could actually ask a reasonable price or maybe even comeup with a better design than WM.
But to legally pursue all other companies or opponents, really does show the mindset that Gobi does have.
Take out the competition and then have a monopoly.

^^^^yes Thai, I do understand your point, I just question why Gobi feels it necessary to take Josh to court. I mean, honestly how much money do they think they can actually get out of him. That's if he has any left after lawyer and court fees. I guess I just wanted to see Gobi place a call to Josh or certified letter saying they have a problem with his design and to stop. It's not often I wear my rose colored glasses, and just think it could have been handeld differently. Who knows, maybe I'm just upset I didn't get my rack ordered in time and so I'm a little biased. Either way, we will see what happens, maybe Gobi will soften their blow a little once they start to see a negative impact on their social media sights.

But, what if they (Gobi) are wrong? IF WM designs are original (and I assume that it is easy to do this side by side), then Gobi just lost a huge amount for nothing. They are not Apple. I am pretty sure that they do not have piles of money on the floor to wipe their ass.

Why do they (Gobi) have to come up with better design just because WM came up with something similar (+/- infringement)? The question is...who came up with it first? Why must the originator (assuming Gobi) now have to change their ways?

This is all assuming that WM did infringe on Gobi's design. IF I was a business person, then I would definitely want a monopoly! It is up to my competitors to compete.

Are we so sure that Gobi did not contact Josh? Again, we're seeing only ONE side of the coin here. Maybe Gobi sent Josh a letter? The whole point of these infringement lawsuits is to also get competition from using your unique design...and money. If you had a company and there is a smaller company making your same shit but cheaper and making a profit, then wouldn't you be pissed too? (China does this all the time, but that's another story! )

And that's the problem...why would Gobi (assuming that they have a legit case) have to soften their stance due to social media pressure?! Assuming that they are right, Gobi should be able to use the extend of the law against anyone who violates it! What does social media have to do with infringement laws?

I respect R&D because I know how hard it is to be the first person to design something of significance. A lot of sweat and $$$$$. Gobi designer(s) may have spent nights and weekends away from family to get it just right for strength, easy of use, low noise on highway, and fitment. And now you have some small manufacturer using their design and selling it for cheap to make a profit. How would YOU feel if you were in Gobi's shoes? You should just shut up because Facebook folks are shitting on your products because you decided to take legal actions? You should let others use your design for free?

Most legal teams in infringement cases have steps for the manufacturer (in this case, Gobi) to take before official legal actions are taken.

Again, sorry if i sound like i am siding with Gobi...i am NOT. But, in these conflicts, i always wait it out....

-I would refute, actually guarantee that GOBI has more money than WM, and due to this definitely can pay out and just do several continuations and delays to further put him under.
-My argument for the change to design, is if they feel threatened and believe instead of coming out with a better product to stomp the little guy out they just decide to claim he stole their idea. I'm pretty sure Gobi was not the first company to ever produce a roof rack. So as stated I'm not saying change ways to accomdate WM, I am saying because clearly they are not the EXACT same if they truly want to make a better name for themselves than they should produce a rack that can do that. Clearly they felt effected because WM was providing not only a great product, but at a competitive price. Which also for a one man operation he would have more overhead as well compared to Gobi producing these in mass quantities.
-And I stand with your last statement, I just guess we disagree on who had the first rack albeit I don't believe them to even be close.

A roof rack is something that goes above the roof of the vehicle, maybe has some crossbars, maybe hold a light bar or an easy way to attach one, removable sunroof area or not, possible mesh floor?
Other than those similarities which all roof racks have. The route which Gobi has chosen to pursue its competition is sleezy.

More money than WM...but more money than Baja? I have no idea.

Are we sure that Gobi just want to drag it out? I have not read the whole thread...any proof of that?

Like you said...there is only a few ways to do a rack...why do THEY (Gobi) have to go the extra mile and redesign something that they did??? Should it not be WM's job to come up with a better design to beat Gobi than (blatantly) copy an existing one?????

Remember, the cost of a product is NOT just the cost of labor & materials. The cost of a product also reflects cost of R&D to get the product to consumers' hands.

For example, a phone may cost $220 to make...yet Samsung/Apple charges $650. Why? Profits...sure. But did you think that $220 was all that is involved in designing, analyzing, testing, marketing, and producing a phone from beginning (a thought in designer's head) to end (you making a phone call with your new shiny phone)?

Of course, Gobi's business was affected! How many normal folks want a roof rack?! A roof rack design that may only fit on a 4runner! Small niche market here. So, if WM came up with a copy and sold it for less (no R&D to contend with), then why is it Gobi's fault at all????? Gobi SHOULD have the right to make WM stop production and/or pay fees...regardless of what Facebook/Twitter users say!

This is why i hate social media! It kills the legal process.

If roof racks are so easy to design, then why do we have buyers? A proper roof rack must be many things, such as proper weight balance, attachments, load distribution, aerodynamic, not too heavy yet not too light, proper gauge steel, proper dimensions to the vehicle it is fitted on, etc..

I see no issue with Gobi going after whoever...as long as it is for the right reason(s) as stated above.

Good points Thai. First, I was not ever contacted by the other guys. Had I been, I very likely would have folded right up as I've sworn these racks off 20 times, at least. Now, however, I sortof have no choice but to push back since doing nothing means I'll be living on the street, based on the demands and tone of the lawsuit.

As for R&D costs: I did this in my driveway with tools most of you have. Outside of the shape and mounts, what else is there? Roof racks aren't exactly precision instruments. I hope they didn't pay engineers for crying out loud.

Theres only so many ways to slice the low profile roof rack bread. It still has to fit the same roof afterall. Even tube construction has its own "rules" if you will which somewhat sets where cross members or other parts and pieces need to be. Outside of those constraints, they're different from every angle.

Ok, I'm out again, thanks everyone!

Josh, thanks for answering. I respect your input.

Do you have the original drawing of your design? I am sure that you don't do the racks from the top of your head. If so, then are they similar to Gobi's on the major points of a rack (whatever that may be)? I have no clue.

I hope that your design is original and that you kick Gobi in the ass for wasting your time and money!

Good luck to you dude. I will be quiet (in this thread).

Damn i lied...last post! Does anyone have a good up close picture of Gobi's rack and WM's? That would be nice to compare side by side.

It really isn't up to us to decide the fate of this. Thai, if you really want to dissect this just google pics of the racks and knock yourself out.

Look Thai, other then trying to hash this out on T4R night court we are just trying to show our support for the little guy. He was just trying to provide a product for fellow members and it grew to a little more then that just recently. I think most of us are tired of the big box stores so to speak and would rather get a hand made product that you know goes to providing for his family. I commend your effort in support for Gobi, they need a few men like you that stick up for them, I however will side with the Josh's of America. Because in the end we all know who the losers are, it will be the fellow members who might not have spent so much for a rack but decided it went to a member that had the skills and ability to build them a product that was built with appreciation of their trust in his work.
And yes, that's what's wrong with America these days, we are all to dam sue happy when a good'ol stern warning would have done the job.

Sorry Thai,
I know you are not siding with Gobi, but rather sticking up for the due process. I understand your points and know it doesn't go any further then just that. I think we can all say that we hope Josh pulls out of this okay, and isn't hurt financially other then not receiving income for the racks built. I'd hate to see someone financially ruined because he might have placed a bar on a truck that somewhat resembled something already made by a another.

I fully understand the R&D aspect and costs, as I have stated previously and am personally fully aware of the operation of a start up company. What you keep ignoring and wanting to argue is that someone copied. As you stated where you stand you believe "WM blatantly copied". Where as I not only disagree with that I also believe Gobi is taking an elementary way to distinguishing themselves from others. The only thing the racks have in common is they both sit on top of the vehicle. While I commend your persistence, you only keep touching on part of the issue. The reality is I don't believe the design was copied, and clearly Gobi feels threatened by competition, and thus ergo therefore the easy way is to get sue happy with other companies. Until you can fully understand that there was no infringement, because usually to get around copyright infringement the design needs to only be changed 30%. I believe not only WM to be more than 30% but again believe it to be completely different aside from the part they are both called roof racks.

I never said that WM blatantly copied Gobi. But IF he did, then Gobi has the right to take action. WM has pointed out that his design is much different. If so, then Gobi is wrong. I could care less who wins this "battle."

BUT, why not wait for the court to settle this BEFORE shitting on Gobi thru social media. Isn't that sort of bullying in itself? You're not much better than Gobi's actions (if wrong) toward WM. An objective person would stand above this and take a step back. You're letting your canceled order of WM rack cloud your judgment.

Persistence plays both ways here....

And yes, i am no good at keeping promises....

Of course, but then why have forum discussion then, right? Why even create this thread? You're a moderator...LOCK THE THREAD THEN!

Knock myself out? OK...thanks. I did look. I am no rack expert to make judgment nor do i have the details of the lawsuit to make judgment. Just because i want to wait for the judgement...that makes me wrong? Really momo.75?!

As it stands, plenty of folks have ALREADY made up their mind...and apparently have taken actions thru social media to bully the Complaint.

Strange...some of us are no different than the folks we criticize for jumping to conclusion (see Trayvon, Brown, etc. supporters).