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Old 02-13-2019, 02:25 PM #16
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That is pretty unusual. My best bet based on the pictures is that you have too much preload on the spring and it hits the top out point of the shock too hard and the shock isn't designed for that load. For example it's a well known issue that you can't run the OME heavier springs with bilstein shocks or you'll rip the piston off the shaft when they top out. It's not one part alone that causes it. It's the combination of a high spring rate, weak shock, and too much preload. Usually that along with the ride height being maxed out is why you also probably had a pretty poor ride quality too. Probably had less than 3" of down travel. So medium size bump was causing a jack hammer effect on the piston head.

There's a big difference between various shocks in terms of strength in this capacity. A Fox factory shock for example is probably 10 times as strong as a Bilstein 5100. An Old Man Emu shock is also designed for that type of use to match with OME heavy coils. Depending on the coil, shock, and preload you have it may be an incompatible setup that was just a matter of time before it broke. That doesn't mean the bilstein shock is a bad product. It just wasn't designed for that type of use. It doesn't have a big thick topout bump stop or a heavy duty piston shaft to handle it. Used as designed they probably work just fine.

Usually when you break a coilover from over-compression it looks more like this:

Last edited by Jetboy; 02-13-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:55 PM #17
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Come on OP we know you were jumping your rig in the whoops down in Baja!
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:00 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
That is pretty unusual. My best bet based on the pictures is that you have too much preload on the spring and it hits the top out point of the shock too hard and the shock isn't designed for that load. For example it's a well known issue that you can't run the OME heavier springs with bilstein shocks or you'll rip the piston off the shaft when they top out. It's not one part alone that causes it. It's the combination of a high spring rate, weak shock, and too much preload. Usually that along with the ride height being maxed out is why you also probably had a pretty poor ride quality too. Probably had less than 3" of down travel. So medium size bump was causing a jack hammer effect on the piston head.

There's a big difference between various shocks in terms of strength in this capacity. A Fox factory shock for example is probably 10 times as strong as a Bilstein 5100. An Old Man Emu shock is also designed for that type of use to match with OME heavy coils. Depending on the coil, shock, and preload you have it may be an incompatible setup that was just a matter of time before it broke. That doesn't mean the bilstein shock is a bad product. It just wasn't designed for that type of use. It doesn't have a big thick topout bump stop or a heavy duty piston shaft to handle it. Used as designed they probably work just fine.

Usually when you break a coilover from over-compression it looks more like this:
[IMG]https://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/attachments/suspension-steering-tech/496306d1434261002-need-help-broken-strut-image.jpg[IMG]
This is good insight. Thank you. It is pretty much what Toytec said, and after replacement of that broken shock, I've tried following Toytec's installation instructions to the letter; however, I still find that my ride height does not correspond to what Toytec expects.

More specifically, Toytec told me that the shock collars should be 1.5" to 2" above the bottom of the shock body, so that the ride height, as measured from the center of the hub to the bottom of the fender, is 23". Even When I set the collar to 2" above the bottom of the shock body, my ride height is around 22.5". This may have to do with the extra weight I'm carrying, which Toytec is aware of (and I know folks at Toytec carry the same extra weight). Unfortunately I don't know what my previous settings were (I had not thought much of it since I installed it all in 2017, though it was probably set too high, as you mention).

That pic looks pretty horrible too. At least it looks like it did not ruin anything else.

In redoing my entire suspension, in addition to replacing all shocks and springs, I am also looking at replacing the LBJ's, which, after 120k, is probably coming up due for replacement. I doubt the previous owner ever replaced them. Hopefully in this way I am tackling all of the "weak" spots.
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:17 PM #19
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I kind of thought the different manufacturers were categorized like this:

1) King - High speed desert running
2) OME - Heavy load slow speed off roading
3) Bilstein - Standard load slow speed off roading
4) Toytec - Show n' shine cruising






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Old 02-13-2019, 03:27 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
I kind of thought the different manufacturers were categorized like this:

1) King - High speed desert running
2) OME - Heavy load slow speed off roading
3) Bilstein - Standard load slow speed off roading
4) Toytec - Show n' shine cruising






Agreed
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:49 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
I kind of thought the different manufacturers were categorized like this:

1) King - High speed desert running
2) OME - Heavy load slow speed off roading
3) Bilstein - Standard load slow speed off roading
4) Toytec - Show n' shine cruising






Quote:
Originally Posted by ajordan1975 View Post
Agreed
well shit, i clearly bought the wrong stuff lol

where would you put Fox, Icon, Dobinson and Sonoran Steel? (or are Dob and SS too small to really have a niche on your chart?)
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Last edited by violation; 02-13-2019 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:29 PM #22
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UPDATE 1
Toytec has responded to my last email (of 7 days ago) within a day of posting this thread. Coincidence? I will let you decide. But the sales rep says they still want me to be a satisfied customer and I'm guessing communication will continue, which is nice.

I should also say at this point that I've always been happy with Toytec's customer service and their quick responses, from initial purchase when I had a billion questions for them, through the front shock failure and up until now, with the exception of the recent radio silence.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:37 PM #23
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yikes, for the cost of kits they sell i'd rather just buy something else.

save up for kings
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:40 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by violation View Post
well shit, i clearly bought the wrong stuff lol

where would you put Fox, Dobinson and Sonoran Steel? (or are Dob and SS too small to really have a niche on your chart?)
Dobinsons is pretty much the main rival of OME in terms of coils and shocks. I am fine with them. Australia has some absolutely brutal tracks, nothing hard in US sense, just hundreds of miles of terrible corrugations that can destroy suspensions. I do like Australian expertise for that reason.

Sonoran Steel, from what I have seen offer a Billstein 5100 based setup with some sort of coil that looks unusual.

I wonder how much your spacers are to blame.

Personally, I like to either understand something or follow someone that is supposed to understand something. So, I would say a reputable enough, bigger name maker that offers complete upgrades: no spacers, no mix-and-match. Then you will have to see which ones actually last a little between rebuilds.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:58 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post

Personally, I like to either understand something or follow someone that is supposed to understand something. So, I would say a reputable enough, bigger name maker that offers complete upgrades: no spacers, no mix-and-match. Then you will have to see which ones actually last a little between rebuilds.
I'm the same way, and thought I was doing so - but hindsight is 20/20 and you see all your mistakes when it's too late lol.

For example, I went with 4xInnovations armor because they've been around for a while and even had feedback on their armor from 4runners that got in pretty bad on-road accidents. Most everything I go with big-name products that have been on the road for a while. But even if I do it 90% of the time, it's that 10% that'll bite me.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:05 AM #26
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In the end, there's no replacement for size. Shaft size that is.

This is the reason the high end coilovers (fox/king/etc) Use much thicker shafts on their shocks.


Toytec makes great value stuff for what 90% of offroaders/daily drivers need. But the more "adventurous" out there need stronger stuff. This is far from the 1st toytec shaft break I have seen because they were put through some circumstances that they just weren't designed for which accelerated a failure.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:36 AM #27
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In the end, there's no replacement for size. Shaft size that is.
That's a pretty good sig line right thar.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:44 AM #28
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:57 PM #29
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Thatís one of the worst shock failures I have ever seen.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:14 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
I kind of thought the different manufacturers were categorized like this:

1) King - High speed desert running
2) OME - Heavy load slow speed off roading
3) Bilstein - Standard load slow speed off roading
4) Toytec - Show n' shine cruising






Kings all day. Buy once, cry once.
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