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Old 11-20-2019, 12:40 PM #1
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2021 Rav4 PHEV - 302hp! 4R 268hp....

I know it's a 4Runner forum - but this is getting ridiculous how badly the 4Runner has been put out to pasture. I never thought I'd see the day when the Rav4 has significantly more hp and tq than any available 4Runner.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:35 AM #2
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Still the same weak little I-4 with under 200hp. I agree there is a lot to be done with the 4runner but the company wants to head up the EV market so they just give us a new roof rack every year.. Personally I'd rather see a stock supercharged 4.0 with upgraded tranny.

"176-horsepower, 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine and two electric motors for a total system output of 302 hp; standard electronic all-wheel drive"
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Old 11-21-2019, 11:01 AM #3
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I don't think I'd want a 4Runner set up as a PHEV. In today's world, two added electric motors would present additional failure options when off road. Would they need to be kept dry and mud-free? Maybe not, since the Rav4 should be able to go off-road. Still, I personally wouldn't go that route.
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Old 11-21-2019, 05:43 PM #4
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I don't think I'd want a 4Runner set up as a PHEV. In today's world, two added electric motors would present additional failure options when off road. Would they need to be kept dry and mud-free? Maybe not, since the Rav4 should be able to go off-road. Still, I personally wouldn't go that route.
Normally the EV portion should be more reliable than the gas engine. Imagine as an example - unlimited water fording depth. They should operate perfectly fine underwater. You could just plug your intake, put in EV only mode, and go as deep of water as you please with no fear of it not working.

I would also love the idea of the ability to use the battery system to power my camp. And it should be capable of auto-recharge in the back country so you'd end up eliminating any need for a generator or probably even any reason to have a solar setup. A 10kwh battery pack would run a fridge for months. You could winch for miles before running out of juice too!

And the low end torque would probably eliminate any reason at all to have a two speed transfer case or low range. It's basically the equivalent of unlimited low range. Front dig? No problem. Rear dig? No problem. Drive only the two left side tires for a skid turn? No problem. Electronic drive opens up a world of options that we could only dream of doing with current drive trains.

I think there are a lot of good reasons to go for a hybrid system for off road use. If it's done right it could be a quite a significant improvement over a gas or diesel powered vehicle for both expedition/overland and for the hard core stuff. But... it has to be designed with that in mind. And it'll have to have some method of allowing access to the battery bank output for camp/winch/etc.
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Old 11-21-2019, 07:07 PM #5
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Normally the EV portion should be more reliable than the gas engine. Imagine as an example - unlimited water fording depth. They should operate perfectly fine underwater. You could just plug your intake, put in EV only mode, and go as deep of water as you please with no fear of it not working.

I would also love the idea of the ability to use the battery system to power my camp. And it should be capable of auto-recharge in the back country so you'd end up eliminating any need for a generator or probably even any reason to have a solar setup. A 10kwh battery pack would run a fridge for months. You could winch for miles before running out of juice too!

And the low end torque would probably eliminate any reason at all to have a two speed transfer case or low range. It's basically the equivalent of unlimited low range. Front dig? No problem. Rear dig? No problem. Drive only the two left side tires for a skid turn? No problem. Electronic drive opens up a world of options that we could only dream of doing with current drive trains.

I think there are a lot of good reasons to go for a hybrid system for off road use. If it's done right it could be a quite a significant improvement over a gas or diesel powered vehicle for both expedition/overland and for the hard core stuff. But... it has to be designed with that in mind. And it'll have to have some method of allowing access to the battery bank output for camp/winch/etc.
Good points.

I get you on the fording depth, but again, no appeal to me. Probably not to most because who wants to drive through 3+ feet of water that often? It'll get inside somewhere.

Available electricity for back-country camping - no argument there.

If you eliminate the transfer case, then you're placing all your off-roading onto the 4 electric motors that you'd need instead. So your 4Runner would be two-wheel-drive mechanically as far as the gas engine drive portion is concerned (could be all-wheel-drive, I suppose). While that may eventually work, we're nowhere near there today - maybe. But I totally get the future possibilities that tech will eventually offer.

Either way, that Rav4 looks good, and from what I read, has no direct competition at the moment.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:22 PM #6
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I really dont think the 4Runner has been left out in the pasture... the rig is so solid they if anything are avoiding much change or worried about changing to much due to the history of reliability the rig has, to much change might scare away the people considering the rig based on its historical reliability and ability...

drive a rav4 then jump in a 4runner and tell me you dont see or feel the quality difference. sure the 4Runner is old and un changed for so long, but I think that Toyota is finding their is a market for people who just want quality and reliability over flashy buttons and heated steering wheels...

not to mention the 4Runner has actually been increasing in sales every year from the last where as mostly every other model they have had on market for 3 + years has shown a decline in sales after the 3 year period without a major refresh.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:12 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranberry View Post
I really dont think the 4Runner has been left out in the pasture... the rig is so solid they if anything are avoiding much change or worried about changing to much due to the history of reliability the rig has, to much change might scare away the people considering the rig based on its historical reliability and ability...

drive a rav4 then jump in a 4runner and tell me you dont see or feel the quality difference. sure the 4Runner is old and un changed for so long, but I think that Toyota is finding their is a market for people who just want quality and reliability over flashy buttons and heated steering wheels...

not to mention the 4Runner has actually been increasing in sales every year from the last where as mostly every other model they have had on market for 3 + years has shown a decline in sales after the 3 year period without a major refresh.
They've definitely put it out to pasture. QDR has nothing to do with recycling a drive train for over 10 years.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:19 AM #8
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They've definitely put it out to pasture. QDR has nothing to do with recycling a drive train for over 10 years.
I have to disagree,

I think if you really took your rig out to the max and needed something you had to trust and rely on, none of the new technology is tested or proven enough yet to compare to what the 4runner can offer.

im not arguing its unchanged and a little dated... but I am arguing that I believe this is an intentional move on Toyotas part.

I believe Toyota is concerned about rushing something out to replace the 4runner or update it without knowing it is to the same standard they have maintained with the 4 runner chassis
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:46 PM #9
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2021 Rav4 PHEV - 302hp! 4R 268hp....

Two sides to this coin...

1. I left the 4Runner for exactly what OP stated... antiquated/outdated... and I couldnít use the off-road capabilities enough to justify keeping it.

2. The reason I left is why so many LOVE it. Itís still simple. Easy to fix; doesnít break often. Perfect for off-road.

Hell, I still sometimes miss it. And I have ZERO justification for one...

Toyota isnít stupid... they are selling them without having to do jack crap... why break the formula? Heck, from what I read, they are JUST NOW adding Apple CarPlay in the 2020 models!?!

They know the 4Runner is a dying breed.... but so long as it is selling, Toyota would be stupid to change it drastically.




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Old 11-24-2019, 10:25 PM #10
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Quote:
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I have to disagree,

I think if you really took your rig out to the max and needed something you had to trust and rely on, none of the new technology is tested or proven enough yet to compare to what the 4runner can offer.

im not arguing its unchanged and a little dated... but I am arguing that I believe this is an intentional move on Toyotas part.

I believe Toyota is concerned about rushing something out to replace the 4runner or update it without knowing it is to the same standard they have maintained with the 4 runner chassis
You're kidding right. The new Tesla cybertruck has that nifty shatterproof glass. It has been tested...

The reason that the 4R/LC/LX/GX are so reliable because they have time tested (and ancient) technology.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:42 PM #11
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You're kidding right. The new Tesla cybertruck has that nifty shatterproof glass. It has been tested...

The reason that the 4R/LC/LX/GX are so reliable because they have time tested (and ancient) technology.
can't wait to see the first guy try overloading that new Tesla LOL
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Old 11-26-2019, 08:04 PM #12
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The thing is - there's no reason at all the 4Runner can't have all of the optional tech stuff the Rav has and also do everything it currently does as well if not better.

For example - a simple hybrid with a single integrated electric motor in the transmission mated to a 3 - 4 liter v6. Let's say we keep the basic bones the same with a solid rear axle and IFS, but the only difference is that we jump to a 10 speed automatic with a 6:1 low range and the ev torque would offer something equivalent of 100:1 low range. Both drive shafts could just use dog clutches in a simple transfer case design. So you could connect or disconnect either one as you wish. Use a small batter pack, maybe 2kwh. That would be plenty to smooth out almost every mountain pass with extra EV boost = no more down shifts up the hills. Regen braking and probable 3-5mpg improvement. The same system could throw in an extra 150-200hp for easy acceleration at the on ramps, or instant throttle response for climbing a sand dune or playing in the mud.

And what the Rav 4 also proves is that it doesn't have to be expensive. The base rav4 hybrid is only an 800 upgrade. The EV hybrid drive train we know with near certainty will be in the tundra within about a year's time. So it's already developed. There's just no good reason not to see the same system in the 4Runner. And frankly, it should have been done 5 years ago. I will be first in line to buy one.

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