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Old 11-27-2019, 06:21 PM #16
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To each his own..personally I find it to be one of the ugliest vehicles I've ever seen..
Ditto.... Doubt they can deliver anyway.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:25 PM #17
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You have to complement advancement I donít like the look but the engineering is amazing think about a bulletproof body and shatterproof glass in an off-road vehicle that I can run to get milk in a hurry
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:16 PM #18
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From a non-TreeHugger standpoint, Tesla is quickly turning into a brand I want to ownÖ I recently test drove a Model 3 and it was absolutely awesome. Iím gearing up to buy one as a replacement to my 14 year old Acura sedan. I really am amazed how much better it is that a ďnormal carĒ. The driver aids in freeway traffic are just fantastic and not having to ever visit a gas pump for my daily grind seems pretty nice as well.

Truthfully the truck wasnít exactly what I was hoping it would be, but I think it has potential. I also assuming many things will change between the unveiling and the production model. I too pre-ordered the truckÖ for $100 refundable deposit I figured it was a way to show some support. I already have a Silverado and could really care less how fast they bring it to market.

To a degree I was hoping the Tesla truck could replace my truck and sedanÖ would not be a bad idea to downsize as having 3 personal cars can at times feel like more than I really need, but itís the 4Runner which is really the luxury item as itís the off-road toy, so they all continue persist.

None of this changes how I feel about my 4Runner ownershipÖ especially when it comes to off-road stuff. I am quite content with it as it is, and have no plans to replace or sell.
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:17 PM #19
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Originally Posted by Mudballz View Post
...a bulletproof body and shatterproof glass...
Not quite there.....

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Old 11-27-2019, 08:39 PM #20
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I was really disappointed by the truck. I was expecting something great. I think the CT is a failure and will not sell well. And some of the claims were just nonsense. Cold rolled stainless can be formed into any shape, Tesla may not have the manufacturing ability to actually do it - but the design is pretty bad even with a limitation of origami. I'm not sure how you get out if you are trapped inside and can't break the windows. I assume the windows don't roll down. So... how do you get out?

Most importantly, I don't think the towing or hauling capacity will be very good. I'd be surprised if it could tow a typical camp trailer more than about 150 miles on a charge. Assuming a 200kwh battery and just doubling the range of a Model X - towing a camp trailer would net something like 100 miles of range. And then you're looking at over 2 hours to recharge at a 150kw charging station. It just doesn't pencil out as a functional product for that use. Assuming 150 towing range, it will cost about $50 for every 150 miles of range at the current supercharger fee rate as well. A typical diesel truck at $4/gal and 12mpg towing would cost $50 per 150 miles of towing making the cost a wash between the two. But the diesel truck will have an empty range of up to 800 miles and a towing range of 300+.

And it's just ugly. It really does look like a drawing a 5 year old would make. The Rivian looks great. And the Model S and 3 are also pretty good looking cars. The CT is just a WTF happened situation for me. My only real guess is that they don't actually intend to deliver very many of them so they made something that most people don't really want. I don't think there's much profit in them. The battery pack alone at current pricing will cost $30,000 to manufacture.

I would much rather have a PHEV truck like the 2021 Rav4 where I could get 40 miles of EV range and then have a gas or diesel engine to go from there. I'm probably going to buy a Rav4 PHEV if they don't also offer a Lexus version to replace our RX. I could do most of my local driving on EV and also use the same truck for remote camping and towing duty, neither of which are possible with the Tesla truck. And it looks pretty likely that Toyota will have that option in the next few years. Ford may also have something similar.

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Old 11-27-2019, 09:12 PM #21
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200k people think the opposite and show a truck that can handle a sledgehammer hit without damage
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Old 11-28-2019, 11:21 AM #22
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Originally Posted by Mudballz View Post
200k people think the opposite and show a truck that can handle a sledgehammer hit without damage
Mike
That's what 8 months of Tacoma sales? 2 months of f150. That's not a very good pre order number. And most of those won't end up buying. But I am honestly surprised that 200k people saw it and thought "yeah, that's something I want." So in that respect it is at least better than I expected.

If your intention is to hit with a hammer rather than drive it. If that's the goal - it's a great truck for you! The people I know who would care about things like that also care about utility.

How do you fit a flat bed? A snow plow? Can you load a pallet of cement with a fork lift? Does it have a full size spare? Where? Can you charge it anywhere with a trailer attached? Will Tesla update the software to show only trailer capable chargers? Wtf are the stupid wheel covers supposed to do? How well does that bed cover work when the track is full of dirt and sand? What's the range when you put a rack on it? Can you even put a rack on it? Where does it attach? Will it have wipers? Mirrors? Do the windows roll down?

It's hard to take this as a serious effort. I kinda think it's an elaborate trolling.

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Old 11-28-2019, 02:22 PM #23
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Originally Posted by FoCo-4Runner View Post
As far as Tesla’s go the they can be hit or miss. The latest issue my buddy just discovers was the his entire computer system bricked and came to find out there is an issue with the computer rewriting data to the computer and after so much data gets rewritten, the drive just dies. He was unsuccessfully in getting a replacement from Tesla and had to settle for one pulled from a totaled car. It was not cheap at all.

Granted we are in the infancy of electric vehicles so there are bound to be growing pains.

As for the Rivian, the performance is comparable to Tesla. The top end is 3 second 0-60 and 400 mile range. The Tesla will probably be slightly faster but for a Truck....who cares. Both are insane. And yes the Rivian is more money but I’ll wait until they can do a direct comparison before a cast judgement.

I just personally enjoy an exhaust note and being able to actually work on my vehicles. Maybe some day but that won’t happen anytime soon.
You get that the Rivian with 3s 0-60 and 400 mile range is significantly more expensive than the highest end Tesla CT right? What I posted was the highest Tesla trim vs. the lowest Rivian trim, which shows that Tesla will blow Rivian out of the water.

The Rivian model that's 3s 0-60 and 400 mile range is going to be well above $100k.

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Old 11-28-2019, 05:46 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
That's what 8 months of Tacoma sales? 2 months of f150. That's not a very good pre order number. And most of those won't end up buying. But I am honestly surprised that 200k people saw it and thought "yeah, that's something I want." So in that respect it is at least better than I expected.

If your intention is to hit with a hammer rather than drive it. If that's the goal - it's a great truck for you! The people I know who would care about things like that also care about utility.

How do you fit a flat bed? A snow plow? Can you load a pallet of cement with a fork lift? Does it have a full size spare? Where? Can you charge it anywhere with a trailer attached? Will Tesla update the software to show only trailer capable chargers? Wtf are the stupid wheel covers supposed to do? How well does that bed cover work when the track is full of dirt and sand? What's the range when you put a rack on it? Can you even put a rack on it? Where does it attach? Will it have wipers? Mirrors? Do the windows roll down?

It's hard to take this as a serious effort. I kinda think it's an elaborate trolling.
Tesla is targeting the AVERAGE truck buyer these days. You know, the ones with 4wd that never gets engaged, bedcovers that only get opened to load a case of paper towels every other week. He's not chasing the SuperDuty's and Duramaxes, Cummin's truck owners out here. He's going after the guys who barely use their truck as a truck, so don't want the absurd cost per mile of ownership that goes along with it. My dad daily drove a 2500HD Duramax for years, and he spent more on gas than I did for the payment on my truck and motorcycle. Personally, I'm looking at going all electric with everything but my Runner by 2025. A Cybertruck would fit in nicely. I'd be able to daily drive it 2-3x a week that I have to go into the office, and I would have no problem putting my 2 dirtbikes in the back and taking my kid to the track 3 hours away.
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:55 PM #25
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Tesla is targeting the AVERAGE truck buyer these days. You know, the ones with 4wd that never gets engaged, bedcovers that only get opened to load a case of paper towels every other week. He's not chasing the SuperDuty's and Duramaxes, Cummin's truck owners out here. He's going after the guys who barely use their truck as a truck, so don't want the absurd cost per mile of ownership that goes along with it. My dad daily drove a 2500HD Duramax for years, and he spent more on gas than I did for the payment on my truck and motorcycle. Personally, I'm looking at going all electric with everything but my Runner by 2025. A Cybertruck would fit in nicely. I'd be able to daily drive it 2-3x a week that I have to go into the office, and I would have no problem putting my 2 dirtbikes in the back and taking my kid to the track 3 hours away.
Would you otherwise drive a Honda ridgeline? It's the closest competitor. Although still better at towing and camping. And cheaper per mile.

The ridgeline failed for the reasons you stated. It is perfect for soccer dads. But truck buyers want the image of capability. Even if they should be driving a minivan or a Camry, they buy the truck for the image. But if it can't do real truck things, it won't have the image of doing truck things that the soccer dads want. So they won't buy it. Because they're not buying for function. If they were they wouldn't buy a truck. As a result, trucklets are really hard to sell.

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Old 12-02-2019, 05:05 PM #26
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You get that the Rivian with 3s 0-60 and 400 mile range is significantly more expensive than the highest end Tesla CT right? What I posted was the highest Tesla trim vs. the lowest Rivian trim, which shows that Tesla will blow Rivian out of the water.

The Rivian model that's 3s 0-60 and 400 mile range is going to be well above $100k.
Even if the Rivian truck was better specs wise, they donít have the miles of autopilot data & collection Tesla has done, and is containing to do as we speak. Tesla is so far ahead because of the strides they have made in self-driving technology.

They are so far ahead of the game that every other player is just going to be playing catchup unless Tesla decides to license the tech to other automakers. If you havenít experienced autopilot yet, itís about the most mind numbing part of the brand as far as I am concerned. I have never seen something track and respond to things around me like that before. If you spend any amount of time on the freeway, it is THE reason I am even considering the brand in the first place.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:34 AM #27
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Even if the Rivian truck was better specs wise, they donít have the miles of autopilot data & collection Tesla has done, and is containing to do as we speak. Tesla is so far ahead because of the strides they have made in self-driving technology.

They are so far ahead of the game that every other player is just going to be playing catchup unless Tesla decides to license the tech to other automakers. If you havenít experienced autopilot yet, itís about the most mind numbing part of the brand as far as I am concerned. I have never seen something track and respond to things around me like that before. If you spend any amount of time on the freeway, it is THE reason I am even considering the brand in the first place.
Tesla likely isn't even in the top 3.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:14 PM #28
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Even if the Rivian truck was better specs wise, they don’t have the miles of autopilot data & collection Tesla has done, and is containing to do as we speak. Tesla is so far ahead because of the strides they have made in self-driving technology.

They are so far ahead of the game that every other player is just going to be playing catchup unless Tesla decides to license the tech to other automakers. If you haven’t experienced autopilot yet, it’s about the most mind numbing part of the brand as far as I am concerned. I have never seen something track and respond to things around me like that before. If you spend any amount of time on the freeway, it is THE reason I am even considering the brand in the first place.
I don't think Tesla's data is worth a lot. The problem is that they're using low resolution cameras that are physically incapable of the resolving power required for safe self driving. They're not even full HD cameras. So at any meaningful distance the resolving power is insufficient to identify objects boarders with enough resolution to calculate speed, position, or size. You can work through the math. I have. I don't think it's possible with the hardware they're using and I don't think the data they're recording is going to be particularly useful.

In short, a human has two 580mp self focusing sensors in binocular vision mounted on a gimbal with a very complex intelligence processor. The most advanced Tesla system has about 10 fixed aim, fixed focus, low resolution 1.2mp cameras. The cameras absolutely can do things a human driver can't. No argument. Machines *will* outdrive a person. But the current hardware in any current Tesla isn't even remotely in the ball park of sensor capability.

I do think Tesla will release full self driving and kill a dozen or so people before they get shut down. And then they'll claim it's "safer" like they currently claim - which is objectively false. They are not among the safest cars on the road by measure of either deaths per mile driven or by insurance injury payout costs. In fact even the 4Runner is better than most Tesla models.

And I think there's merit in pushing the limits. Tesla in some ways should be commended for pushing the industry. I just wish they'd be honest about what they're doing and the limits of their products. I think the beta testers should be fully informed that they're beta testers and some of them are going to die for the improvement of the product.

And I don't think Toyota is doing a very good job of keeping up. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Toyota literally pioneered the camera based driving in the LS about 20 years ago it had lane keep assist, self parking, etc. And then what? Nothing. Toyota basically did nothing but small incremental updates with the technology for two decades.

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Old 12-03-2019, 01:23 PM #29
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And to think it could have looked this good:

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Old 12-04-2019, 01:33 PM #30
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Tesla likely isn't even in the top 3.
Then educate... because I haven't personally seen or experienced anything else at this level.
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