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Old 02-05-2020, 01:29 PM #16
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Jeep Forums ?

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Originally Posted by swampdodo View Post
So, why don't you jump over to the Jeep forums and post the same question?
Thanks for the suggestion. I've never been to any of them.
I can't even imagine the level of ridiculousness possible in those places...

Possible thread titles ....

"Have You Seen TSB 1,853,559 C ?"

"Poll: How many times has your girlfriend fallen out of your Jeep when the doors were off this summer ? "

"Should I Lemon Law My Jeep?"

"My Door Hinges are Rusty Should I Lemon Law My Jeep"

"Brah Check Out My New Bimini Top Brah"

"I Lost Control The First Time I Drove on the Highway After My 12" Lift and My Dog Died"
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:01 PM #17
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I can't even remember how many leaf springs I had to replace on my Chevrolets and Pontiacs. They didn't last very long. It was often.

It seemed like I needed front end suspension parts and a front end alignment every year and that was with 60-70 series tires too.

I have done maybe 2 - four wheel alignments on my 14 year old 180k MB C-class (IFS/IRS). I haven't had to replace any drive shafts (knock wood). I did have a worn front link about 100k miles ago

Point being if the IFS/IRS is designed right you wont need alignments and parts any more than with a solid.
Just curious... Do you off-road with your 14 year old, 180k MB C-Class?

If not, perhaps that's why that particular set up has required less attention.

Life is short. If you don't like the 4Runner, drive something else.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:05 PM #18
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Originally Posted by -E5J- View Post
Just curious... Do you off-road with your 14 year old, 180k MB C-Class?

If not, perhaps that's why that particular set up has required less attention.

Life is short. If you don't like the 4Runner, drive something else.

This is about "Solid Front Axle Fascination" or SFAF. It isn't about me or my car or my choice to buy or not buy a 4Runner.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:24 PM #19
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Yeah, that's what your title states, but then you go off on the solid rear axle as well...the link you listed and stating "I don't care for the solid rear on the 4Runner."...you blew it up yourself...
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:57 PM #20
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Originally Posted by swampdodo View Post
Yeah, that's what your title states, but then you go off on the solid rear axle as well...the link you listed and stating "I don't care for the solid rear on the 4Runner."...you blew it up yourself...
Oh well. No ones perfect.

At lease its a coil and link solid rear and primary RWD. Rear wheel drive is one of the things that got me interested in the 4Runner. Most of the other 4WDs are FWD with a RWD add-on.

But the point is for years I've herd this "Solid front axle is (insert description of best-ness here)" and to me it appears religious argument.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:07 AM #21
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Yeah, be careful, you could be treading on thin ice. But some do get fanatical about it...like Chevy vs. Ford, Coke and Pepsi, Democrats vs. Republicans, etc.

This whole solid axle vs. IFS...you can write several books (I think they have) on the pros and cons of each. There is no 'one size fits all'...like off road tires, there are several types for different 'applications'. People like to ask which is best for 'off roading'. Well, what kind of off roading...sand dunes, desert running, mud, dirt trail, rock hopping, etc.

I think some of it comes down to 'tradition'... "my grandfather had solid axles, my father solid axles, and by gum I'm gonna have solid axles". Some of that might be due to ignorance.

However, from what I've seen (and experienced)...with all things being equal...a solid front axles (with what's available) are easier to upgrade as far as things like lifts and strength. Anything more than a mild lift on a IFS requires things like dropping the diff, extended CVs, relocation or new control arms, new springs, struts, (getting it realigned) etc. It can be quiet involved. As for solid axle...just slip in some blocks and you're good...actually, that's not the proper way...you do need to springs, shocks, etc., but it is easier to do...you drop the whole thing as a single unit. Also, given what's available today, pound for pound, solid axle can be configured to handle higher loads. I'm not saying you can't make a IFS as strong as a solid axle, but the cost involved would be prohibited to most people. Overall, solid axle are easier to work with and cheaper.

There is even division within the solid axle factions...leaf springs or coil (over) springs...OMG!

I could go on. But the question comes down...what do you want to do, what is going to be your application, how you going to use it (how much do you have to spend?)? Each has its place.

Even the military knows this...see the H1 Hummer...it has independent suspension all around.

The 4runner is suppose to be a 'all around' vehicle...it fits in between vehicles like the Wrangler (solid axles all around) and something like the Highlander (independent all around). You get a decent ride and control on road while still being able to take the road less traveled.

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Old 02-06-2020, 09:35 AM #22
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my offroad rig is a '92 Bronco with a solid D44 front axle (coil spring, extended radius arms, so on and so forth) that I swapped over the notorious Ford twin traction beam IFS..now don't get me wrong, IFS has some good qualities, it rides nicely and can be set up to do probably 98% of what most people would consider off-roading.

That aside, in my humble opinion, you can't be the solid axle for reliability or articulation. I've been wheeling my Bronco for close to 20 years..With the IFS you could just look at it wrong and the alignment would get jacked..I can beat on that solid axle all day and it will still drive straight as an arrow down the road..the best part is I can do an alignment in my driveway..

With a rig like my 4R that's primarily pavement and some light trails, I wouldn't ever consider going solid axle..but to each his own..
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:55 PM #23
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It's simple geometry. Solid axles have longer travel possible and usually better weight distribution at higher flex so that results in better traction (lower ground pressure). They are typically not as comfortable at higher speeds. For example no stock class IFS vehicle has ever finished the easiest route at King of the Hammers. Many solid axles have. In fact, the winners the last two years were also both on leaf springs. I'll take empirical results over theoretical every time. At speed the IFS solid rear axle perform the best. Less unsprung weight. IF you want a street car - IFS IRS is the best.

In short:


If you don't actually go off road, you should probably look for a more highway oriented choice.

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Old 02-07-2020, 03:17 PM #24
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as others have said solid front axles provide much more flex, I plan to upgrade to a dana 30 after an experience I had while navigating some trails in front of the local JC Penny. I was flexing my suspension on one of the curbs and ended up getting stuck, and when the local police arrived to pull me out they claimed to have found a crack pipe among my recovery gear and I got arrested. I won't have this problem again once I get solid axles under my corolla.
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:13 PM #25
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Stock class? Which stock class?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
... For example no stock class IFS vehicle has ever finished the easiest route at King of the Hammers. Many solid axles have. In fact, the winners the last two years were also both on leaf springs. I'll take empirical results over theoretical every time. At speed the IFS solid rear axle perform the best. Less unsprung weight. IF you want a street car - IFS IRS is the best.
It's not surprising the a modern stock vehicle with IFS wouldn't finish KoH.

$ Unnamed Stock Class <<<$Class 1 I'm sure of this

I dont even know which stock class you are talking about

Here's some links for them maybe you could be more specific.

Class Levels and Vehicle Numbers | SCORE-International.com
Rulebook | Ultra4 Racing

4 wheel independent, purpose built, from the ground up is the way to go. IMHO. If you are a weekend warrior with limited funds that chooses leaf springs and solid axles thats fine too.

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Old 02-07-2020, 08:42 PM #26
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I'm a bit confused. You drove 4R Limited, didn't like it. Spent several pages talking about what you didn't like, then drove a SR5 and seemed to like it.

Here, you are asking about a solid front axle (which I suspect you thought the 4R had), then went on to discuss about how bad the rear axle is.

I've never bought a car (and I've bought plenty) based on suspension design (or most anything else), but I've selected cars based on capabilities and features.

If I were you, I'd pick your next car based on ride, features and capabilities.

I drove a Limited and was underwhelmed. The nosedive on braking, combined with the sloppy braking, the steering wheel wiggle on the highway and the not so great gas mileage took it mostly off the list for me - although your comments on the SR5 may make me try the other models before I write the 4r off entirely.

Back on topic - I snickered just a bit was the comment a few posts back that solid axles give better gas mileage. Does that mean that the 4R would get even worse gas mileage if it had an independent rear suspension?
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:05 PM #27
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If the straight front axle has hubs that unlock, yes.
Hubs unlocked, the front wheels aren't turning the axles, differential, or driveshaft.

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Old 02-07-2020, 10:18 PM #28
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4Runner Write a check

I fully intend to buy a 4Runner SrR5 Premium with a sunroof when we are ready. Great truck that meets our requirements

The topic of the thread is Solid Front Axle Fanaticism

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Old 02-07-2020, 11:21 PM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdodo View Post
Yeah, be careful, you could be treading on thin ice. But some do get fanatical about it...like Chevy vs. Ford, Coke and Pepsi, Democrats vs. Republicans, etc.

This whole solid axle vs. IFS...you can write several books (I think they have) on the pros and cons of each. There is no 'one size fits all'...like off road tires, there are several types for different 'applications'. People like to ask which is best for 'off roading'. Well, what kind of off roading...sand dunes, desert running, mud, dirt trail, rock hopping, etc.

I think some of it comes down to 'tradition'... "my grandfather had solid axles, my father solid axles, and by gum I'm gonna have solid axles". Some of that might be due to ignorance.

However, from what I've seen (and experienced)...with all things being equal...a solid front axles (with what's available) are easier to upgrade as far as things like lifts and strength. Anything more than a mild lift on a IFS requires things like dropping the diff, extended CVs, relocation or new control arms, new springs, struts, (getting it realigned) etc. It can be quiet involved. As for solid axle...just slip in some blocks and you're good...actually, that's not the proper way...you do need to springs, shocks, etc., but it is easier to do...you drop the whole thing as a single unit. Also, given what's available today, pound for pound, solid axle can be configured to handle higher loads. I'm not saying you can't make a IFS as strong as a solid axle, but the cost involved would be prohibited to most people. Overall, solid axle are easier to work with and cheaper.

There is even division within the solid axle factions...leaf springs or coil (over) springs...OMG!

I could go on. But the question comes down...what do you want to do, what is going to be your application, how you going to use it (how much do you have to spend?)? Each has its place.

Even the military knows this...see the H1 Hummer...it has independent suspension all around.

The 4runner is suppose to be a 'all around' vehicle...it fits in between vehicles like the Wrangler (solid axles all around) and something like the Highlander (independent all around). You get a decent ride and control on road while still being able to take the road less traveled.
It's funny how the solid axle fanbois come out of the woodwork when their paradigm is challenged.

I think the above post nails it. Depends on what kind of off-roading you do and even then, there can be benefits/drawbacks to each.

From a production car standpoint with durability and overall cost taken into consideration, I think the solid rear axle makes the most sense for the 4Runner. I also think IFS is the best choice for the front.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't mind one with IRS, but at least the current ones are linked.

Did someone say articulation?


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Old 02-08-2020, 10:29 AM #30
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Go to this video at 13:00.. I am not a Jeep fanboy but if you think IFA is better than SFA off-road you are smoking some good crack.
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