Nope married to my first (and will be my only wife), 1 old car, 1 old motorcycle, a bunch of degrees, semi-retired, (Billions of dollars in a bank account? how is that even possible?) I have traveled a lot and will continue to do so.

This thread turned from tech discussion into a name calling and cow pie throwing contest. Too bad could have been worth something.

Dude, your 3rd post in this thread you were saying how SFA might make sense for a "budget weekend warrior", and you're whining about some cow pies lobbed back at you? Watch some rock bouncing vids and count how many SFA vs IFS rigs you see. Want to go to one of their events and tell the 95% of guys who run SFA/SRA on the hardest courses on the planet in their $50-100k+ rigs how they're "weekend warriors" because your 20 yr old Benz has only needed a few alignments? Get real. Every one of those guys and most of the guys here have weighed the pros and cons of both, and all decided on at least an SRA if not SFA. Maybe they know some things about it firsthand that you don't?

Every truck, and really every BOF vehicle that I know of, designed by multiple PhDs with millions of data points behind them, of uses a SRA. Maybe they know some things from a century of design research and stress testing that you don't?

Every design has its place. If you don't want to off-road, don't want to tow heavy things, don't mind replacing perfectly good CVs because the boots cracked yet again, and are willing to pay slightly more for slightly better on-road handling, then buy a Highlander, buy a Prius. No one cares. I poke way more fun at mall crawlers than I do the suburban dad who drives an IFS/IRS vehicle because it suits his needs. It's your insistence on tearing down people whose different needs are met by a different design than your preference that led your thread down the road it traveled.

My CV axles were destroyed at 100k miles. The LCAs for the IFS had also seized up.

My alignment is okay until I start to off road it heavily and then it's just a matter of time before it gets so bad it needs to be put back.

IFS is great on highway, tho.

SFAs, ALL OF THEM, get weird at highway speeds under the right conditions.

Isn't the Mercedes C-Class a passenger sedan?

I haven't looked real hard but I haven't seen any Monster Trucks using IFS. Same with the rear ...all SRA

According to these guys "The wheels and tires are sessentially what make your Monster truck"...

So You Want to Build a Monster Truck – RacingJunk News

The Government is notoriously cheap and if they paid for IFS and IRS on their combat vehicles I bet there is some serious justification on it and it would be in some public documents of someone could find it.
They are even upgrading the HUMVEE with TAK-4 it looks like.

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im curious, where exactly are you seeing this "solid front axle fascination" that this thread is referring to?

Good question.

Back in the early 2000's Ford was trying resurrect the Bronco. One of the Off Road enthusiasts working in Truck said to me "They better put a solid front axle on it."

I said "Why"?

He said "Jeeps got it and it's better" while waving his hands in the air describing why its better and not convincing me.

I said "Jeeps are piles of %$# and solid front axles suck *&%. Ive got one on my niche truck. It's a terrible front end for so many reasons."

Needless to say no progress toward convincing me was made. The economy collapsed. Bronco got canceled.

Fast-forward to 2020 and I see a thread here about the New Bronco and the same thing comes up "It better have a sold front axle".

facepalm

So I said "Let's start a thread about why SFA keeps coming up over and over and over again as being so great even though technically and performance wise they are only one step above "an oxcart" (Car and Driver) figuratively speaking. Try to convince me and others who think like I do and who have had similar experiences as I have had. There are some smart people here. Let's get the definitive answer."

Here we are.

got it.


well, in regards to the bronco, and what started your thought process...


I too would want it to be a straight axle, similar to the original bronco. IF its going to be an offroad inspired vehicle, a straight axle is VERY hard to beat.

Again, I think the word 'fascination' applies to only a small group of people. 'Preference' might be a better word. I'll say this: I now own a 2019 TRD Off Road 4Runner. I think it's a wonderful vehicle, and I'm quite pleased with it. Like my previous two 4Runners (1988 and 2001), I expect zero trouble from the IFS as long as I own it. But then, my off-roading is occasional, and not very intense.

If I were given the choice of solid axle or IFS on my 2019, I personally would choose IFS - not because it's better, but because it fits my life better. If my life instead included lots of serious off-roading and the solid axle were an option, I might go with it. I'm no expert, but I read about IFS component failures in this forum way more often than solid axle failures. IFS component breakages on intense trails aren't uncommon from what I've read. If I'm going to be physically far from help, I think the solid axle is less likely to strand me.

Others on here know much more about this than me. I'm technically inclined, and I value durability, but I'm no drivetrain expert. The concept of the solid axle just appeals to me because it seems to be more durable. IFS appeals to me because of its ability to isolate impacts and vibration across the vehicle.

As for the rear, only a few 'trucks' (loosely-used-term) have that. There must be a reason.

Neither the HMMWV nor the TAK are intended as rock crawlers. They carry heavy stuff over rough terrain. It's a very different design criteria.

Also the military is literally the opposite of notoriously cheap. New JLTVs cost $400,000. Most recent HMMWV's cost $220,000. That's anything but cheap. They even found a way to make a Hilux shittier AND more expensive. The military generally is really bad at these types of things as a result of design by committee and their RFP processes. The HMMWV is pretty decent for what it does. It's about 5 times as expensive as it should be. But the idea to use IFS/IRS for moderate terrain at moderate speeds is reasonable. That's really neither here nor there as an argument for whether IFS/IRS is better for all situations. It's not. The military unimogs are far better in the "last mile" off road. But they're very rough riding at speed.

Disregard Ritchie Rich as he doesn't even appear to be good at Google searches.

He has no clue what terrain a HMMWV was designed for, but he knows from this discussion about the SFA, that the SFA is crap and therefore doesn't want to buy a 4R because it has a solid rear.

My DAF had a rubber band transmission, but I suspect that the Subaru is a bit more advanced.

A Rav4 is undoubtedly a better vehicle than the 4R. Is there a Rav4 forum we can refer him to? The two vehicles are almost the same except one is a 4R and the other is a R4 and has the coveted IFS and IRS.

From my military experience, they would only change over something if it costed them less lol. Also, the HMMVEE rarely ever leaves a base now. Well that was how it was when I was over in the sandbox.

What the **** did you just ****ing say about independent rear suspension, you little *****? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class at devry university of suspension design, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on moab, and I have over 300 off road stickers on my bumper. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top off road driver in the entire baja peninsula. You are nothing to me but just another obstacle. I will flex my suspension on you with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my ****ing words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, ****er. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of suspension engineers across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're ****ing dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can rock crawl in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my stock shocks. Not only am I extensively trained in rock crawling but I have access to the entire arsenal of pepboys and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your ****ing tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're ****ing dead, kiddo

How the hell did you type that with a straightface

I could barely contain my excitement as I hit submit