30 more days of shutdown is not good news. A lot of businesses might be able to go 2 weeks. 6 weeks is another story.


And food for thought for H1N1, 2009-2010 were some of the highest unemployment years in the last 40 years. Perhaps a reason it did not spread as much as it could had...everyone was already home practicing social distancing.

Ethical question: Lots of NYC residents are fleeing to small towns including my home town. Is it appropriate for small towns to reject medical treatment to them? The small towns do not have the medical infrastructure to handle out of town "guests" and their own local residents. They've publicly asked them not to come for that reason. Moab is a great example. They ask people not to come, they close all the hotels. Yet selfish *******s just keep going. So what is the answer?


My take is that it is perfectly rational and reasonable if the time comes to triage on the basis of whether that person is local or not in that scenario. Make it known publicly and locally. Signs at the airport. Personally - if I were the governor of western states, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska, Hawaii etc. I'd set up at every airport with a quarantine holding area and anyone from NY, CA, or WA gets to spend the first 14 days as a guest of the state in a quarantine. I know Rhode Island is trying to do something like that unsuccessfully by stopping any car on the road with NY plates. Legal? Probably not. I'm not sure how else you keep those folks home. Maybe it's time at a national level require something like a visa for air travel and prohibit tourism for a few weeks.

Not sure where you home town is, but there have been stories of NYC folks "invading " the Hamptons. Durring summer even. Weird. I think it gets more convoluted if they own property in said small towns.

I understand wanting to get the heck out of the fire. That's a normal reaction, I think. I wonder where these people are going if the small-town hotels are closed?

You are right - taxing the small medical infrastructure of a small town is wrong, especially if it serves no purpose other than to convenience yourself. Maybe an option: if you come here (to Moab or wherever), we will first test you to confirm you're not sick. THEN, once we confirm you're not a risk to our residents, you get to do low-risk volunteer work for the duration of your stay - trash cleanup, etc., etc. The town could have a list of "approved" volunteer tasks that prove really helpful to the community. Don't show up, and you get booted.

Perhaps this could be a way to weed out the freeloaders and get a benefit from the NY escapees?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Testing people and then self quarntining for those that are infected would be a better option then collective labelling of a group of people based on place of origin. Infact targeting a group of people based on origin is not only unethical but unconstitutional.
Everyone is eventually going to be infected with this virus over time. So the order of the day is to give the Medical professinals and establishments enough time to treat those that need it without overwhelming the system. Instead of each town and city coming up with its own plan would be better to let the CDC do its job and follow it's guidelines.
Case and point howard county, Ind, is dictating to Walmart and other stores what they can sell to consumers because they know what's best.
Howard County businesses ordered to stop selling ‘non-essential’ items | WTTV CBS4Indy

My hometown is Bozeman, MT. My parent's neighbor is an example - retired New Yorkers, then they have all their kids come from New York to wait out the situation. In doing so they bring both spread of the virus and a lot more people to a small hospital system. And it's happening all over small town USA. I'm not going there because it's unethical to put small towns at risk even though it would be a great time to go hang out on my family's ranch. I'd also love to go spend some days cruising around Moab or Monticello.

I'd love to think that most people are reasonable and at least a little bit ethical, but I think there's a big portion of our population who are neither. And the only way in a me-first society to solve the problem is make sure that those people will not harm others by setting up a system where they can't even if they try. It's not okay to put the small town at risk.

The problem is entitled people are not following the guidelines. So do you step in to force them to stop by fines? Arrests? It's a fuzzy line between coughing on produce at a supermarket and flying from NYC to Ames Iowa. The latter could be a lot more dangerous. I think we have to accept that there are plenty of entitled people who think the rules don't apply to them. So my take is that the only way to solve the problem is to do so either by law or by preventing those people from harming others by disallowing access to limited resources (hospital beds etc.)

Ideally the FAA should have rolling blackouts at hotspots to prohibit all non-essential flights in/out of cities that are hot spots. Or local gov in small towns should start shutting down airports for now.

I think a lot of them are renting VRBOs or staying with family/friends. I think the test would help. I don't think the small towns want "volunteers" from NYC. It's not generally working class folks evacuating the city. Even if they don't bring the virus with them, they're causing the population to balloon so when things do go bad, the medical infrastructure built for 10,000 or 30,000 is now expected to handle 50,000.

Moab as an example has 4 ventilators total. IMO zero of those should be made available for anyone who is not a Moab full time resident unless they are currently unused. I can only imagine what's happening to small towns in upstate NY. I'm guessing they're getting inundated and have no way to deal with it.

You maybe right about entitled people but I have to disagree on the point that, if they are not infected and are not a public health risk then collectively quarantining them with sick people is wrong.Testing people is the only viable option.

Yeah, I get you. Maybe the best statement to make about all this is that nobody has the best answer. I think that may underscore the need for us to all be a bit more forgiving and try to do right by each other. It'll pass eventually. Appreciate your viewpoints.

I know people who are still traveling for leisure. They're completely self-absorbed entitled co-workers. One of them literally had a stopover in NY then came home, went to Costco and local grocery store directly from the airport and then visited her mother with MS. Not a person fleeing, just doesn't give a f about anyone but herself. She's exactly the type of person who wouldn't think twice about having a low level fever and not knowing what it was, taking some advil to pass the fever thermal checkpoint, and flying to a small town.

If they're not infected - all they have to do is stay home. That's it. It's not a hardship. They're not being quarantined "with" sick people. If they travel they might be. Getting on an airplane for 6 hours with a very high likelihood of being with a sick person is far more risky. I understand that they're bored being at home. But I'm not sure that's a good justification.

The government should have forecast this behavior and prevented people from moving about, which would have saved us valuable time.

Considering "all unnecessary travel is discouraged" throughout the US at this time, the self-entitled clearly think they're different.

My wife's family has had a summer place in Barron County WI for longer than my wife's been alive and here's what that county has issued:

1. All unnecessary travel is discouraged throughout the United States at this time.

2.People with seasonal or recreational properties in Barron County are strongly encouraged to remain at their permanent residence. If seasonal or recreational property owners do travel into Barron County, they are required to self- quarantine for fourteen (14) days in order to stop COVID-19 community-to-community spread. Property owners must plan accordingly and bring 14 days of supplies with them. Self-quarantine does not permit shopping at local stores for these supplies.

3.All people residing (permanent or seasonal) in Barron County must comply with other restrictions, such as the Wisconsin Governor’s Executive Orders. Please be aware that there may be future health and travel restrictions.

4.Barron County has a large population of older adults and vulnerable populations. These populations are at the highest risk of COVID-19; it is our priority to keep people in Barron County healthy and safe.

5.Barron County is a rural community with limited healthcare capacity. It is important we take all precautions necessary as to not overwhelm our healthcare systems.

6.Barron County campgrounds will remain closed until further notice.

One of my co workers flew with his family from Denver to Maryland to be with his elderly parents. He wanted to get tested before he left but couldn't because of the lack of availability. He went to Maryland to help his elderly parents so they can stay indoors and not take any chances while he being an healthy adult could do so. I don't as a habit hypothesis about people's intentions or motives because without facts it just tends to muddle up things.

That would fall under necessary travel in my opinion.