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Old 04-22-2020, 02:57 PM #31
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Originally Posted by Mikey2020 View Post
Agree 100%. I'm one of the 99% of people who don't use the 4runner to it's full capacity, but love the idea that I can, the potential to take it WAY off the beaten path if I ever wanted to, and the rugged looks for the daily drive.
I'm with you there. After spending a few years living in the country in an area that gets snow/ice (and roads don't get consistently plowed), I won't go without some form of 4x4 or AWD in the driveway again. I learned it's better to have it and not need it than find you need it and not have it.

Plus, the 4R has gotten me through a couple of situations that became unexpectedly worse than we planned for - nowhere near the 4R's max, but I was glad to have the extra capability and peace of mind at the time. Other times it has just made things much more convenient - simply going through a bad section of road or a parking area with deep potholes and not having to worry about dragging parts off the underside or finding another route/place to park.

But yeah, 99.9% of the time I'm a poser.
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:03 PM #32
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Iíve never owned a Ford so I have no personal experience with their reliability, but Iíve driven plenty of Ford rentals over the years when traveling for work. Iíve never been impressed with any of their sedans, trucks, or SUVs. I donít have any faith that the new Bronco would change my bias, but Iíd like to take one for a test drive or rent one for a weekend.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:41 PM #33
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Anyone care about the new Bronco?

No, but

it is cool to see it come out even though I have zero interest in it.
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Old 04-22-2020, 07:34 PM #34
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Iíve never owned a Ford so I have no personal experience with their reliability, but Iíve driven plenty of Ford rentals over the years when traveling for work. Iíve never been impressed with any of their sedans, trucks, or SUVs. I donít have any faith that the new Bronco would change my bias, but Iíd like to take one for a test drive or rent one for a weekend.
The Raptor is a very fun truck. The speed and power of that thing is ridiculous and the suspension really lets you float over the terrain. Until something breaks. It's also huge and super comfortable inside.

The GT Mustangs are really solid cars. Drive and handle great, stupid fast. But pretty much everything that isn't concerned with the drivetrain is utter shit in that car.

I think the Bronco will be a cross between those two.
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:56 PM #35
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No idea, lots of high mileage modern turbo cars on the road.
I have similar prejudices. I'd rather have a naturally aspirated engine than a turbo in a vehicle I plan to keep for hundreds of thousands of miles. While modern turbos are likely much better than the old days, I can't imagine them having fewer troubles over the long haul, or even the same amount of troubles. The 4.0 V6 in today's Runner is surely more durable than a 2.2-liter 4 cylinder turbo making the same power, wouldn't you think?
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Old 04-23-2020, 07:32 AM #36
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Turbocharged engines have more troubles over the long haul than naturally aspirated ones. I was reading an article from 2018 yesterday(Are Small-Displacement Turbo Engines Reliable in the Long Term? | Design News) that indicated that this is the main reason Toyota hasn't adopted turbos across large portions of their fleet. Do a search on any automaker plus the phrase 'turbo problems' and you'll find specific models and problems listed, lots of them. Do the same search with Toyota and you get generic articles on turbo problems in general - few if any Toyota problems.
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Old 04-23-2020, 11:41 AM #37
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It's a joke when they say they designed it trump the wrangler as the king of offroading. Wrangler is still king with its solid front axle.

If they're talking about high speed desert stuff, the wrangler was never king of that anyways.
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:11 PM #38
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Turbocharged engines have more troubles over the long haul than naturally aspirated ones. I was reading an article from 2018 yesterday(Are Small-Displacement Turbo Engines Reliable in the Long Term? | Design News) that indicated that this is the main reason Toyota hasn't adopted turbos across large portions of their fleet. Do a search on any automaker plus the phrase 'turbo problems' and you'll find specific models and problems listed, lots of them. Do the same search with Toyota and you get generic articles on turbo problems in general - few if any Toyota problems.
Toyota hasn't adopted turbos because their engine technology is far behind other automakers. It's also why they can't make an in house sports car to save their damn lives.
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Old 04-23-2020, 12:38 PM #39
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I have similar prejudices. I'd rather have a naturally aspirated engine than a turbo in a vehicle I plan to keep for hundreds of thousands of miles. While modern turbos are likely much better than the old days, I can't imagine them having fewer troubles over the long haul, or even the same amount of troubles. The 4.0 V6 in today's Runner is surely more durable than a 2.2-liter 4 cylinder turbo making the same power, wouldn't you think?
My current Chevy work truck is at 165k miles with a turbo diesel and no issues with the turbo system. My last Chevy work truck had 250k miles with a turbo diesel and no issues. In fact ive seen over a million miles pulling heavy trailers across the country from sea level to 10k feet and have never had any issues with any components pertaining to the turbo system. That's not to say it never happens, I've seen plenty of trucks on the side of the road and I'm sure some of those are blown turbos, but I've never personally experienced it.
Personally, I'd take one of those baby Duramax 3.0 over this 4.0L any day


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Old 04-23-2020, 12:41 PM #40
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I'm looking forward to this coming out. This might seem strange to some folks, but I'm hoping it will have a 3rd row option. I'm one of those few people that actually need a true Sport Utility Vehicle. I want good offroad ability for 'Sport' on the weekends, and 3rd row functionality for 'Utility' during the week.
The 4Runner fits the bill nicely and the only other real competitors at this time are Land Rovers.

Sadly, my 3rd gen 4Runner is rusting away to nothing and my 4th gen has become an unreliable maintenance nightmare, so I'm getting ready to jump ship if something else comes along that meets my needs/wants. Maybe the Bronco will make that happen??
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Old 04-23-2020, 01:29 PM #41
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Toyota hasn't adopted turbos because their engine technology is far behind other automakers. It's also why they can't make an in house sports car to save their damn lives.
They make the most dependable vehicles, that's why I've owned them since my first Corolla in 1982. I for one don't care how cutting edge they are because I put so dang many miles on them. I think I would have had to replace the turbo on both my Gen1 and Gen3 4Runners had they been so equipped, just due to the high mileage wearing them out.
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Old 04-23-2020, 01:45 PM #42
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My current Chevy work truck is at 165k miles with a turbo diesel and no issues with the turbo system. My last Chevy work truck had 250k miles with a turbo diesel and no issues. In fact ive seen over a million miles pulling heavy trailers across the country from sea level to 10k feet and have never had any issues with any components pertaining to the turbo system. That's not to say it never happens, I've seen plenty of trucks on the side of the road and I'm sure some of those are blown turbos, but I've never personally experienced it.
Personally, I'd take one of those baby Duramax 3.0 over this 4.0L any day


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Actually, I was referring to cars/gas engines. I'm no expert or diesel engine mechanic, but I think turbo diesels and turbo gasoline engines are apples and oranges in some ways. Gasoline burns hotter, gas engines run higher RPMs (and their turbos do also), trucks generally have loads of oil in the crankcase which slows break-down of the oil and helps with cooling. And besides, OTR trucks run turbo diesels for a million miles or more. That would never be the case if those turbos created lots of problems. I get it.

So yes, I can believe you've had good experience with turbo diesel trucks. I think you'd be harder-pressed to find large numbers of turbo gas engines in the 250k-plus mileage range. Non-turbo gas engines are more durable and reliable than turbo ones, that's all I'm saying.
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Old 04-24-2020, 10:54 AM #43
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Toyota hasn't adopted turbos because their engine technology is far behind other automakers. It's also why they can't make an in house sports car to save their damn lives.
The 3.5 turbo v6 in the LS is among the best truck gasoline engine I've ever seen. Long stroke, high compression, low rev, gas engine. The power curve is ideal for a truck. It's like a gasoline version of a turbo diesel engine. And Toyota also has the most thermally efficient production engines in the world. The LFA was a pretty decent in-house sports car.

It's not really a capability issue - it's a willingness to actually put the interesting stuff they develop in the high volume models. Toyota could build a great sports car, they just won't. Even using the BMW platform - Toyota's own inhouse turbo 6cyl engines are much more powerful, more efficient, and more durable than the BMW engine. But they won't use it. They could have fantastic engine options in the 4Runner. The Toyota parts bin is full of them. A 3.5L turbo? A 4.5L turbo diesel? A 2.8L turbo diesel? An ultra efficient 5.0L v8? Yep. All in the parts bin.

But will they put them in a 4Runner? Nope. Instead Toyota chose a 6 speed transmission, but only put a 5 speed valve body on it, so they can only use 5 gears of the 6 gears. And an ancient v6. That's it. It's all you get. oh - you want an update? Sure, how about a special color? A color matched cooler and unpainted door handles? Done.

Toyota is frequently the world's first in automotive advancements. And then... they sit on them about 20 years until it's the industry standard and finally they'll actually start rolling it out for the masses. Toyota built the world's first 8 speed automatic transmission. And... they've put it in what? A few Lexus models, sold some to Cadillac, and a low production land cruiser, and now the highlander. But not in any of their high volume models over a decade later. Toyota has a 10 speed too. That's in about zero models.

That's why I'm looking for something new. It's WAY past time for the 4Runner to get some updates. And it's not really the body or the platform. It's the drive train. It's 2-3 generations out of date. I did read that the 6th gen 4Runner might drop the 8 track and install a modern cassette deck! So that's something to get excited about.

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Old 04-24-2020, 11:13 AM #44
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The 3.5 turbo v6 in the LS is among the best truck gasoline engine I've ever seen. Long stroke, high compression, low rev, gas engine. The power curve is ideal for a truck. It's like a gasoline version of a turbo diesel engine. And Toyota also has the most thermally efficient production engines in the world. The LFA was a pretty decent in-house sports car.

It's not really a capability issue - it's a willingness to actually put the interesting stuff they develop in the high volume models. Toyota could build a great sports car, they just won't. Even using the BMW platform - Toyota's own inhouse turbo 6cyl engines are much more powerful, more efficient, and more durable than the BMW engine. But they won't use it. They could have fantastic engine options in the 4Runner. The Toyota parts bin is full of them. A 3.5L turbo? A 4.5L turbo diesel? A 2.8L turbo diesel? An ultra efficient 5.0L v8? Yep. All in the parts bin.

But will they put them in a 4Runner? Nope. Instead Toyota chose a 6 speed transmission, but only put a 5 speed valve body on it, so they can only use 5 gears of the 6 gears. And an ancient v6. That's it. It's all you get. oh - you want an update? Sure, how about a special color? A color matched cooler and unpainted door handles? Done.

Toyota is frequently the world's first in automotive advancements. And then... they sit on them about 20 years until it's the industry standard and finally they'll actually start rolling it out for the masses. Toyota built the world's first 8 speed automatic transmission. And... they've put it in what? A few Lexus models, sold some to Cadillac, and a low production land cruiser, and now the highlander. But not in any of their high volume models over a decade later. Toyota has a 10 speed too. That's in about zero models.

That's why I'm looking for something new. It's WAY past time for the 4Runner to get some updates. And it's not really the body or the platform. It's the drive train. It's 2-3 generations out of date. I did read that the 6th gen 4Runner might drop the 8 track and install a modern cassette deck! So that's something to get excited about.
I like the simplicity of 5th gen, but it literally wouldn't have killed them to put one of their bigger engines and a 6 speed in it.

And not doing something when you can do it well is like not doing it at all. That's why the Supra sucks.

Also, lol at all the people on this forum screaming "I want it to last 275k miles!!!111" as they wind up trading their 2015 for a 2020 TRD Pro after less than 55k miles, anyway.
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Old 04-24-2020, 11:24 AM #45
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Some of their Lexus V8 motors and drivetrains are sick.

Their Toyota stuff, not so much. Would kill to have a new 5 liter in a 4Runner or entry level rwd sports car.
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